First Ever Closet Grow Using a 300 Watt CFL - a Bit of Skill and a Lot of Luck!

[newbiedude]

Re: First ever closet grow using a 300 watt CFL, a bit of skill and a lot of luck!

Hey guys here's the pics i promised of my problems. Many thanks for all you valuable help and advice. I would literally go mental if this "project" failed so early on

The last pic of the leaves on the paper towel are all off the largest plant. I chopped the bottom 2 off right after the pic cos they looked nasty. Peace guys and much GREEN LOVE!

 

[jon705]

Re: First ever closet grow using a 300 watt CFL, a bit of skill and a lot of luck!

what are you feeding them and whats the ppm's.whats the ph of your water and how often do you feed?water? the droop looks like overwatering and the spots could be a ph problem or the beginnings of a cal/mag deff,XLR8 is the guy to ask about the defficiencies though he really knows his shit

 

[newbiedude]

Re: First ever closet grow using a 300 watt CFL, a bit of skill and a lot of luck!

what are you feeding them and whats the ppm's.whats the ph of your water and how often do you feed?water? the droop looks like overwatering and the spots could be a ph problem or the beginnings of a cal/mag deff,XLR8 is the guy to ask about the defficiencies though he really knows his shit

Hey jon thanks for your rapid reply. I use tap water that i leave to sit for 2-3 days. I use pH down to get it to 6.8. I have never tested the run off because i'm a NOOB. I used a crappy soil meter and that read around 7 but It's so vague I don't even trust the thing. I have not yet purchased a TDS meter but I will be doing very soon. Have just ordered a Brita XL filter jug to filter my tap water. I have never fed them and only watered once since transplanting (almost 4 weeks ago!) Much love brother.

 

[fish cake]

Re: First ever closet grow using a 300 watt CFL, a bit of skill and a lot of luck!

think you need a bigger pot, might be root bound. no room for food in there.
thats just a guess

 

[jon705]

Re: First ever closet grow using a 300 watt CFL, a bit of skill and a lot of luck!

Im to fried to go looking lol...what size pot is that? 4 weeks inbetween waterings is way way way to long bro,should be every 4-5 days. have you had a look at the roots?try and gently get her out of the pot,does that soil have good drainage? ive never used it.and whats in it?Does the pot have good drainage?when you water how long does it take for the runoff to come out the bottom? again im not a soil grower but I do grow in soil for my testers.I keep it really simple though,straite up pro mix bx and the same nutes I use in my hydro res.I actually use the water in the res to feed the girls in the soil, maybe not the best way but it works great for me.water,feed,water,feed like that.I think most people go feed,feed,water though.does the pot still feel heavy? the top looks dry as a bone it might be the exact oposite because underwatering will cause droop like that and then it will start to wilt.need some more info

 

[Xlr8]

Re: First ever closet grow using a 300 watt CFL, a bit of skill and a lot of luck!

Hiya, Dude!

First, don't worry, it'll get sorted out. Jon asked me to come take a look for you - but I can see that you are getting lots of good advice already from many capable growers. But, I'll give you my 2 cents as well.

Jon's post really echoes a lot of my thoughts. I'm sort of jumping in the middle here, but I did go back several pages to get the gist - and I think the issue is plain and simple lack of drainage - for whatever reason.

To me, it appears that you don't have good aeration to the soil. It's staying to moist for some reason, and the problems do look like "over watering" to me. But, clearly you are not "over watering" per se' - as you went a long time between waterings. That tells me that you aren't getting good drainage. There might be a mess of circling roots at the bottom that are soaked and drowning and getting icky, causing the issues you are seeing. Are there holes in the bottom of those pots - and how big are they?

Ideally, you want to be able to water until run-off comes out the bottom. So, the pots should have good drainage. If attending to your plants frequently is a problem, hard-sided pots allow for longer periods between waterings - but they should still have good drainage, as cannabis likes a relatively "dry" soil/media compared to some plants. Moist soil and organic material also attracts every kind of bug you don't want. Yikes!

You want these things to take off like rockets? Try an aeration style pot like "Smart Pots" or "Air Pots" when/if you transplant (and I think you should based on what you are saying, to a pot that has better drainage). You'd be shocked at how much faster plants grow in these aeration containers, as the roots really like oxygen with their moisture. Cannabis doesn't like "wet feet", and is happiest right before it wilts from being "under watered". So, ideally, the soil mix and pots you use should allow for air to get to the soil. Aeration style pots (ie Smart Pots, etc.) will accelerate the drying of the soil/media as well, which allows for more frequent waterings/feedings. Between the extra oxygen to the roots, and being able to water/feed more frequently, the plants grow faster/taller/bigger... quicker. Plus, it's a lot more difficult to "over water" the plant in them, and if you do it resolves itself in a couple of days typically. Smart Pots, for example, are also typically inexpensive. They look like a felt liner, more than a pot. "Air Pots" are my favorite, and are plastic with small holes in the side, allowing for air to the root zone. These pots also "air prune" the root tips, which causes the plants to develop more lateral root growth, eliminating circling, and creating a much healthier root structure that won't "circle" the pot.

General tips on watering: Always make a habit of lifting the pots. Weigh them if you must on a scale, but also lift them often to feel the weight. Make note of how heavy they are after a watering (or weigh it). Then, don't water again until the pot feels light. To me, when they are ready to water they almost feel ridiculously light, if that makes sense. That's when I water them. I also keep track of the frequency so I have a better idea of when the next watering might be needed. If you wait too long they could start to wilt, as long as you are checking on them frequently, that's okay as they'll snap back quickly most of the time - and you'll lift the pot (or weigh it) and now what "too dry" feels like (or weighs).

Again, it looks like you've been getting a lot of first class advice - truly, but I'll try to peek in every now and then. I guess I'd say the goal is to figure out how to get more air to the roots, so that you don't have to go that long between waterings, and so that the soil doesn't stay "soaked" for too long. This is based on the long periods between waterings, and the clear "over watering" symptoms.

I'm confident if you can get better drainage/aeration that will help straighten things out.

 

[jon705]

Re: First ever closet grow using a 300 watt CFL, a bit of skill and a lot of luck!

like I said lol...X knows his shit

 

[newbiedude]

Re: First ever closet grow using a 300 watt CFL, a bit of skill and a lot of luck!

think you need a bigger pot, might be root bound. no room for food in there.
thats just a guess

Hey fishcake, First off I would like to wish you all the best in your recovery. I was so saddened to hear you had been to hospital as I myself have to attend my local one every month for my medication so I feel your pain brother.
They are in 2.6 gallon pots, 70%-ish soil and 20% perlite, 10% vermiculite. No nutes just 1 watering since transplant. I'm scared to water because the pots still feel heavy but I have just pushed my finger down about 3 inches and it came out dry so....
Much green love.

 

[newbiedude]

Re: First ever closet grow using a 300 watt CFL, a bit of skill and a lot of luck!

Hiya, Dude!

First, don't worry, it'll get sorted out. Jon asked me to come take a look for you - but I can see that you are getting lots of good advice already from many capable growers. But, I'll give you my 2 cents as well.

Jon's post really echoes a lot of my thoughts. I'm sort of jumping in the middle here, but I did go back several pages to get the gist - and I think the issue is plain and simple lack of drainage - for whatever reason.

To me, it appears that you don't have good aeration to the soil. It's staying to moist for some reason, and the problems do look like "over watering" to me. But, clearly you are not "over watering" per se' - as you went a long time between waterings. That tells me that you aren't getting good drainage. There might be a mess of circling roots at the bottom that are soaked and drowning and getting icky, causing the issues you are seeing. Are there holes in the bottom of those pots - and how big are they?

Ideally, you want to be able to water until run-off comes out the bottom. So, the pots should have good drainage. If attending to your plants frequently is a problem, hard-sided pots allow for longer periods between waterings - but they should still have good drainage, as cannabis likes a relatively "dry" soil/media compared to some plants. Moist soil and organic material also attracts every kind of bug you don't want. Yikes!

You want these things to take off like rockets? Try an aeration style pot like "Smart Pots" or "Air Pots" when/if you transplant (and I think you should based on what you are saying, to a pot that has better drainage). You'd be shocked at how much faster plants grow in these aeration containers, as the roots really like oxygen with their moisture. Cannabis doesn't like "wet feet", and is happiest right before it wilts from being "under watered". So, ideally, the soil mix and pots you use should allow for air to get to the soil. Aeration style pots (ie Smart Pots, etc.) will accelerate the drying of the soil/media as well, which allows for more frequent waterings/feedings. Between the extra oxygen to the roots, and being able to water/feed more frequently, the plants grow faster/taller/bigger... quicker. Plus, it's a lot more difficult to "over water" the plant in them, and if you do it resolves itself in a couple of days typically. Smart Pots, for example, are also typically inexpensive. They look like a felt liner, more than a pot. "Air Pots" are my favorite, and are plastic with small holes in the side, allowing for air to the root zone. These pots also "air prune" the root tips, which causes the plants to develop more lateral root growth, eliminating circling, and creating a much healthier root structure that won't "circle" the pot.

General tips on watering: Always make a habit of lifting the pots. Weigh them if you must on a scale, but also lift them often to feel the weight. Make note of how heavy they are after a watering (or weigh it). Then, don't water again until the pot feels light. To me, when they are ready to water they almost feel ridiculously light, if that makes sense. That's when I water them. I also keep track of the frequency so I have a better idea of when the next watering might be needed. If you wait too long they could start to wilt, as long as you are checking on them frequently, that's okay as they'll snap back quickly most of the time - and you'll lift the pot (or weigh it) and now what "too dry" feels like (or weighs).

Again, it looks like you've been getting a lot of first class advice - truly, but I'll try to peek in every now and then. I guess I'd say the goal is to figure out how to get more air to the roots, so that you don't have to go that long between waterings, and so that the soil doesn't stay "soaked" for too long. This is based on the long periods between waterings, and the clear "over watering" symptoms.

I'm confident if you can get better drainage/aeration that will help straighten things out.

A lot of good advice there my friend. So happy to be in a community of such like minded people.
My pots have around 6 (1/4 inch) holes in the bottom and I used about a 70%/30% mix of soil to perlite/vermiculite so the drainage shouldn't be a problem.
The pots are 2.6 gallons and I thought that would be their "final resting place" but if I need to transplant then hell that's what we'll do.
I've just tested the soil with my finger and it seems dry about 3 inches down so now i'm really confused because now it would seem like they NEED water. My fault for not weighing the wet and dry weight of the pots i guess, noob me.
Much green love.

 

[newbiedude]

Re: First ever closet grow using a 300 watt CFL, a bit of skill and a lot of luck!

like I said lol...X knows his shit

Hell yeah he does dude. Thanks for bringing him over. If we pull this off guys you're ALL going on my christmas card list next year!!!!!!

 

[jon705]

Re: First ever closet grow using a 300 watt CFL, a bit of skill and a lot of luck!

definetely have to change your pots bro 4 weeks and they are still heavy!I would do it sooner than later that droop will get worse and so will the spots.air pots can be replaced with those bags they give out at walmart or grocery store theyre made out of simillar material.Doctor Dread is using those with exellent results.
Dread's 400w Tent
you might even have some laying around

 

[Xlr8]

Re: First ever closet grow using a 300 watt CFL, a bit of skill and a lot of luck!

Well, huh. "Under watering" does look a bit like "overwatering" in pics sometimes. Funny, I almost mentioned this too - a couple pics look like too much moisture, and a couple looked almost like not enough. It can be tough to tell from pics sometimes. When the tips want to curl under like a claw, usually that's over-watering and I did see that in a couple of pics. But, like I said, it can sometimes be tough to tell in pictures.

One thing I've seen before, especially with a hard-sided pot: The top dries out almost excessively, but the very bottom can have a build up of roots that are circling the pot, and retaining all the moisture. The end result is things dry up top, but not on the bottom. So I'd be curious to see what they looked like at the bottom if you gently pulled them out of the pot.

I'm not really a "soil" grower, but I don't think you want to do that with dry soil. So before pulling them out of the pots, you'll want to make sure the soil is moist, so it doesn't all dump out off the roots (you want the soil and the roots to be bound to each-other with moisture before removing the plant from the pot I think). Help me out soil growers, but this is right, correct?

If the pots seem heavy still, I think you might want to see what's going on at the bottom. I think it was Fish Cake perhaps that suggested root circling could be going on? Also, I think based on the size pots they're in, and them being hard-sided, you'll want to move them to bigger pots regardless. The size up top is often equivalent to the space they need down below to an extent, especially with non-aeration containers (you can get by with smaller pots with aeration containers). So, if your plant up top is much bigger than the pot down below, you'll have problems.

If you can be around to water them more frequently (every couple of days perhaps?) then an aeration container would be my recommendation as I mentioned, personally (Smart Pots, Air Pots etc.). As you can probably tell, I love aeration containers, lol. I just really believe in them. Aside from more frequent watering, they're easier to use, and plants grow better in them, with better root structures and more vigorous growth. Win/win/win.

Now, if they're dry all the way down, then you must have a lot of roots in there causing weight, perhaps. Regardless, transplanting is probably a good thing, IMO.

 

[Xlr8]

Re: First ever closet grow using a 300 watt CFL, a bit of skill and a lot of luck!

definetely have to change your pots bro 4 weeks and they are still heavy!I would do it sooner than later that droop will get worse and so will the spots.air pots can be replaced with those bags they give out at walmart or grocery store theyre made out of simillar material.Doctor Dread is using those with exellent results.
Dread's 400w Tent
you might even have some laying around

Great tip. Those are more similar to "Smart Pots" ("Air Pots" are still hard plastic)but same concept, and great idea!! I agree with you on transplanting, too.

 

[jon705]

Re: First ever closet grow using a 300 watt CFL, a bit of skill and a lot of luck!

lol..thanks for clarifying X im no soil grower either but I do follow subcool weed nerd and I clearly remember him saying ALWAYS water before transplant it helps keep the soil together as you mentioned and helps to keep shock to a minimum

 

[Xlr8]

Re: First ever closet grow using a 300 watt CFL, a bit of skill and a lot of luck!

lol..thanks for clarifying X im no soil grower either but I do follow subcool weed nerd and I clearly remember him saying ALWAYS water before transplant it helps keep the soil together as you mentioned and helps to keep shock to a minimum

Yeah, I had a panicky moment that based on our suggestion he might remove the plant with the soil still dry on top half or more, and really have a problem. Figured I better mention the moisture bit, and make sure that's indeed correct.

Though I don't grow in soil, the container coco coir plants I've grown are enough to give me some insight, especially on things like watering and general deficiencies, etc. Plus, I've followed dozens of soil grows, successful and disastrous, over the past few years - enough to pick a few things up, here and there.

Now soil mixes, blood meal, guano, yada yada... I'll look at you and blink, or yell help to one of the soil growers - I'm clueless to soil in that regard!

 

[jon705]

Re: First ever closet grow using a 300 watt CFL, a bit of skill and a lot of luck!

lol...I keep it as basic as possible with my test plants in soil bro,feed them right from my res diluted a bit.I find it funny when soil growers say they think hydro is more complicated.I have a couple of waterfarms im thinking of dusting off for my test area so the only plants in soil would be my mothers.less chance of gnats and what not.im pretty sure the gnats im dealing with now came with the bale of promix Im using.I find hydro is just so much cleaner all around than soil.

 

[newbiedude]

Re: First ever closet grow using a 300 watt CFL, a bit of skill and a lot of luck!

Ok guys a lot of good and very similar advice there. When you say moisten before lifting the plants won't this just make matters worse if they are still too moist and like you said Xlr8 the top layer of soil is VERY LOOSE AND DRY.
I really can't see how the pots are too small, they look big enough to me but I am the noob and you lot have a lot of experience. I have access to them 24/7 so there is no problem that I could't rectify immediately if needed.
However, the 24/7 access is completely useless if; when I see the problem and I don't know what to do, or If I see the problem then ask for advice and get conflicting info then I do something that I wasn't supposed to then surely it's game over?
Put it this way right now I want to cry.

 

[newbiedude]

Re: First ever closet grow using a 300 watt CFL, a bit of skill and a lot of luck!

Hey jon i notice you have seen my last post already, just wanted to say i've looked online and seen those smart pots and the air pots. The air pots look like what you would use when not using soil am I right? They look like the soil would just fall out, however the Smart Pots look and sound fantastic but hell are they expensive. I have no money now for 2 weeks so i'm pretty screwed and so are my babies. Shit.

 

[jon705]

Re: First ever closet grow using a 300 watt CFL, a bit of skill and a lot of luck!

well at the very least you have to take a look and at the roots.maybe take a pic or 2 of the root mass.if they are not root bound and the soil is dry then you can leave them if you like but I have a feeling something is up in there.the reason you want the soil wet is when you flip the plant upsidedown to get it out all of that dry soil on top will end up all over the place and expose the top roots.If you plan on staying with soil check out subcools"s channel on youtube called the weed nerd.theres like 107 vids and that guy knows his shit bro.everything you need to know to grow DANK is in those vids bro.hes the guy that invented supersoil a water only soil from start to finish and on some strains he gets a pound a plant indoors off a 6 foot plant.
the reason we suggested air pots or smart pots is because people using them here are reporting that they are getting better results with them than regular plastic pots but in the end its up too you

 

[newbiedude]

Re: First ever closet grow using a 300 watt CFL, a bit of skill and a lot of luck!

well at the very least you have to take a look and at the roots.maybe take a pic or 2 of the root mass.if they are not root bound and the soil is dry then you can leave them if you like but I have a feeling something is up in there.the reason you want the soil wet is when you flip the plant upsidedown to get it out all of that dry soil on top will end up all over the place and expose the top roots.If you plan on staying with soil check out subcools"s channel on youtube called the weed nerd.theres like 107 vids and that guy knows his shit bro.everything you need to know to grow DANK is in those vids bro.hes the guy that invented supersoil a water only soil from start to finish and on some strains he gets a pound a plant indoors off a 6 foot plant.
the reason we suggested air pots or smart pots is because people using them here are reporting that they are getting better results with them than regular plastic pots but in the end its up too you

Hey jon, thanks for your rapid reply. I really wanna take a look at the roots but i'm worried that the plant will fall to pieces under the weight of the soil/root mass
I will do though because that's the only way I am going to find out. So wish me luck lol.
I really do feel like my name suggests now.
Even with all this support I really do feel as if I'm on my own, as only I can see everything that's going on and that's why I'm so worried.
Don't take that comment as any offence because that's not what I meant. I just want my babies to live, they deserve it.
I'm so crying right now. I can't handle these emotions. Plus I got nothing to smoke so you can imagine what I'm going through guys.
Fuck man this is tough.