So from a seedling in a 5 gal bucket it reached it quick? I was thinking a seedling would take quite a bit of time to reach the bottom of a 5 gal and I might have to start in a smaller pot and then up pot into the 5 gal so the plant can reach the res strate away watering in from the tube and not top watering. I might try geoflora and see what they have in there range. Im just tryna simplify things lol sorry to be a pain.I don't follow your question.
I've found the roots from a seedling reach the water quite quickly, usually within the first week or so. For plants that I've converted from an all soil based pot, it took 2-3 weeks for the plant to convert soil roots to water roots, although you probably wouldn't have that issue if you used all soil throughout.
This structure should be thought of as a very effective watering structure, but that is independent of what you use for a medium. Buds is using MC? I believe, but it will also work well with an organic soil. But, either way, you still have to feed it with the stuff you normally would. If you used a Coots mix, or The Rev's organic mix you might be able to get away with just water if your container was large enough, but I don't think a 5G bucket would be.
I think the absolute easiest would be Geoflora and tap water which I think is what Emilya will use for her new SIPs she is building. No pHing, no fussing with worrying about chlorine etc.
But, lots of media will work. I have yet to find an account of someone who was dissapointed with their results using these things.
SIP - Pity Do Dah, SIP - Pity A
- Thread starter Buds Buddy
- Start date
Yeah, no pics from me for security reasons, but I can describe it easily.
I use food storage containers (Tupperware) like a bowl with straight sides with a slightly smaller footprint than the width of my bucket and that fits down into it. I make a hole for the fill tube in the bottom of the bowl near its side and then make a bunch of other drainage holes all over with a small drill bit (I use a soldering iron).
Then make a drainage hole in the side of your bucket about an inch below where the top of the your bowl will be (flipped over so it makes a dome) so there is an air gap between the top of the water and the soil that sits on top of the upside down bowl (very important!).
Flip the food container upside down so it's like a dome and put it in the bottom of your bucket, insert the fill tube through the hole you made in the dome and then fill the bucket with media. I put hydroton clay balls in the bottom to a level just over the drainage hole but most growers just use the mix they are already using. If you do use your regular mix just be sure to pack it down well in the zone below the overflow hole. The rest of your mix goes in firmed like you normally would do in any other pot.
Don't need much. A bucket, a food storage container, a fill tube, and some way to make holes. Pretty simple.
Watering isn't much different between the various styles. I put a little water in to start and then don't add more until it is drained. As the plant grows it will drink more and more water and you can adjust from there. You could just fill the reservoir and keep it topped off if that is esaier for you. And, periodically, I fertigate from the top, like once a week, but other than that it's just water poured in through the fill tube.
This structure basically eliminates overwatering issues as the plant will take what it wants. And it's fast, too! Literally like seconds per plant depending on how much water you pour in.
Stupid simple to get right.
Well, I flower in 2 gal buckets and they're probably 2/3rds as tall, but my seedling roots reach the reservoir in less than a week. Frankly, I'd treat it like a normal pot for the first week or so, watering around the plant just enough to keep it from wilting. Within a week or so the roots will reach the rez and then you're golden.
Unlike normal (old fashioned?? lol) pots, you're not using the wet/dry cycle to try to build roots so I'd suggest just starting your plant in this final container. Normally you'd want a smaller container so you don't overwater but that's just not a factor with these.
You can convert a soil only plant to these but I've found it takes 2-3 weeks for it to transition. Better to just use that time to get it more established in the bucket. And, about a week after the roots reach the reservoir you'll notice growth really pick up.
They have two bags, one for veg and the other for flower. You put a measured amount on top of the soil every two weeks or so and that's it. Doesn't get much easier than that.
Lol. No worries at all, mate. These things have been so dramatically better for me that I think everyone should at least give them a try. I'm sure someone somewhere will have a bad experience but I haven't heard of one yet.
Do it! You won't be disappointed.
Sweet mate thanks for the help I really appreciate it. I could even try it on my next 1 considering what it takes to start them al look into geoflora. Thanks again man
- Thread starter
- #126
After 7 days I quit Top Watering. My buckets are bone dry in 24 hours & I have to refill them. It takes me 7 - 20 oz. cups to fill the reservoir, so that's what they are drinking daily. Soil is still moist without top feeding right now. I'll most likely only top water once a week or once every 2 weeks. Have to see how long it takes for the top soil to dry before I'll know.
The 4 Cherry On Top's roots have surely hit bottom the way they're drinking & growing. I might have to defol & trim for flower this weekend. Not sure yet, but the way they're growing, it is possible.
- Thread starter
- #127
I'm using Mega Crop (9-6-14) @ 3.8 gr. per gal., Nature's Nectar Nitrogen (5-0-0) @ 2.1 gr. per gal. & Alchemist Stout Mono-silicic Acid Silica @ 14.7 gr. per gal.. I guess there's no NPK value to Silica or they just didn't put in on the bottle.I don't follow your question.
I've found the roots from a seedling reach the water quite quickly, usually within the first week or so. For plants that I've converted from an all soil based pot, it took 2-3 weeks for the plant to convert soil roots to water roots, although you probably wouldn't have that issue if you used all soil throughout.
This structure should be thought of as a very effective watering structure, but that is independent of what you use for a medium. Buds is using MC? I believe, but it will also work well with an organic soil. But, either way, you still have to feed it with the stuff you normally would. If you used a Coots mix, or The Rev's organic mix you might be able to get away with just water if your container was large enough, but I don't think a 5G bucket would be.
I think the absolute easiest would be Geoflora and tap water which I think is what Emilya will use for her new SIPs she is building. No pHing, no fussing with worrying about chlorine etc.
But, lots of media will work. I have yet to find an account of someone who was dissapointed with their results using these things.
Everything, even though some of it's liquid, gets weighed out as if it were dry weight. This is the Equivalent of using 4.5 gr. of MC straight from the bag, but with better ratios for cannabis.
here is another item I experimented with and had good success. 2 for 14.
In a 5g bucket the tomato was 6 ft and healthy as can be. The soil did a number on the 1/2"wicks, they were shot after the grow.
Indoor I've only used it for swick a few times with good results. I had to shorten it a bit because it was unstable.
I think in a bucket it could also be used for a sip with a few holes in the risers and fabric blocking the bottom. Packing the risers with soil or perlite instead of wicks.
In a 5g bucket the tomato was 6 ft and healthy as can be. The soil did a number on the 1/2"wicks, they were shot after the grow.
Indoor I've only used it for swick a few times with good results. I had to shorten it a bit because it was unstable.
I think in a bucket it could also be used for a sip with a few holes in the risers and fabric blocking the bottom. Packing the risers with soil or perlite instead of wicks.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
This evening I built 3 SIP containers out of 5 gallon buckets. All of the details will be posted to my constant harvest journal, here.
- Thread starter
- #130
The Buckets look good. Nice bushy plants. Those babies gonna get big pretty fast. They'll be triple that size in 2 weeks easily from what I'm seeing in my buckets. Good Luck. Hope you enjoy them as much as I am.This evening I built 3 SIP containers out of 5 gallon buckets. All of the details will be posted to my constant harvest journal, here.
- Thread starter
- #131
That design looks a lot like my smaller Self Watering Pots that the 4 legs wick up the water from a tray. They are only 2 gal. so I quit using them.here is another item I experimented with and had good success. 2 for 14.
In a 5g bucket the tomato was 6 ft and healthy as can be. The soil did a number on the 1/2"wicks, they were shot after the grow.
Indoor I've only used it for swick a few times with good results. I had to shorten it a bit because it was unstable.
I think in a bucket it could also be used for a sip with a few holes in the risers and fabric blocking the bottom. Packing the risers with soil or perlite instead of wicks.
I am really enjoying the journal Buds! I saw it start, and then as I am between outdoor grows I took my eye off the ball. But thanks to Azi for alerting me again, this is a really fascinating approach! Well done!
Hey BB, I just hopped on the bus. A little bird whispered SIP in my ear and linked me up to your grow. Pleased to make your acquaintance.
ReservoirDog
Well-Known Member
Azi, do your pots even have fill tubes?
Peeps, I have found that a very young seedling can, and should, be transplanted in early to final container when it's a SIP. And yes that includes in my 10 gallon geopots on SIPs. My current plants I planted on Aug. 18th As 2 node plants.
Container gardens we up pot because we have to fill the pot with roots. Have to fill the pot with roots because water arrives from the top intermittently. Its not there all the time because we'll overwater it if we kept it wet all the time for this one reason only: That we are not capable of telling "how wet, wet is". The plants would prefer we kept them moist all the time, esp in a gradient, its just too easy for us to make a mistake and one day add too much. We can't tell the diff between 90% of field capacity and 120%, staring down at the surface.
But ley hydrotropics work for us now, not against. In a container, we can't trust the plant to adapt to its situation because the situation is not stable. Plants adapt strongly to gradients of moisture increasing downward because this is the overwhelmingly common scenario for all of them. Rains, the watering can 'analog', are the tiniest exception by comparison, even where I live, in a rainforest.
The water is always going to be appropriately moist or your SIP isn't working. If you sense moisture under the top cm, then its working. Plant with third node coming out and water the plant in. Then trust it to do the most important job it has, finding the direction of the gradient and follow the water. Resist the urge to water because you aren't helping, your hurting. That confuses the search for the direction of where the source is. The leverage you are pulling with SIPs is hydrotropism, that is the feature responsible for the greater growth than regular containers. If you confuse it or don't trust it, you will be working against the very reason you are using SIPs. This is a SELF-watering design and it's not (just) that way to save you the work. Its designed that way because it grows better. Roots grow way faster than above-ground structures, you gotta let it ride... you have to let the root develop and not confuse things by turning off the gradient for a few days
I seed in a long, woven nursery bag filled with my potting mix and placed in a solocup. I water only from bottom, placing an inch of water is solo cup every N days, trying to keep thins steady. You won't have to wait long, plant when node 3 out and strong.
This is exactly what Octopot says to do, all of it. If you won't take it from me, take it from someone with a PhD and a lot of skin in the game.
Peeps, I have found that a very young seedling can, and should, be transplanted in early to final container when it's a SIP. And yes that includes in my 10 gallon geopots on SIPs. My current plants I planted on Aug. 18th As 2 node plants.
Container gardens we up pot because we have to fill the pot with roots. Have to fill the pot with roots because water arrives from the top intermittently. Its not there all the time because we'll overwater it if we kept it wet all the time for this one reason only: That we are not capable of telling "how wet, wet is". The plants would prefer we kept them moist all the time, esp in a gradient, its just too easy for us to make a mistake and one day add too much. We can't tell the diff between 90% of field capacity and 120%, staring down at the surface.
But ley hydrotropics work for us now, not against. In a container, we can't trust the plant to adapt to its situation because the situation is not stable. Plants adapt strongly to gradients of moisture increasing downward because this is the overwhelmingly common scenario for all of them. Rains, the watering can 'analog', are the tiniest exception by comparison, even where I live, in a rainforest.
The water is always going to be appropriately moist or your SIP isn't working. If you sense moisture under the top cm, then its working. Plant with third node coming out and water the plant in. Then trust it to do the most important job it has, finding the direction of the gradient and follow the water. Resist the urge to water because you aren't helping, your hurting. That confuses the search for the direction of where the source is. The leverage you are pulling with SIPs is hydrotropism, that is the feature responsible for the greater growth than regular containers. If you confuse it or don't trust it, you will be working against the very reason you are using SIPs. This is a SELF-watering design and it's not (just) that way to save you the work. Its designed that way because it grows better. Roots grow way faster than above-ground structures, you gotta let it ride... you have to let the root develop and not confuse things by turning off the gradient for a few days
I seed in a long, woven nursery bag filled with my potting mix and placed in a solocup. I water only from bottom, placing an inch of water is solo cup every N days, trying to keep thins steady. You won't have to wait long, plant when node 3 out and strong.
This is exactly what Octopot says to do, all of it. If you won't take it from me, take it from someone with a PhD and a lot of skin in the game.
Yes, two in fact at opposite sides of my 2G bucket with the theory that there will be better air flow between the two rather than a dead end with just one (although I know the overflow drainage hole can help). I don't know that this is actually a thing or that it really even matters, but makes me feel better intellectually.
But, for my smaller 9oz and 1L containers, I do not have a fill tube since it would take up too much of the soil volume in those containers so for those I just sit them in a pot of water that comes up slightly above the drainage hole and make it work in reverse.
This ^^. I've found converting a soil only plant to a SIP takes about 3 weeks to get the thing in gear as it adjusts to the new realities. Better to use that time for it to establish itself properly in the SIP container. Once the roots adjust and find the water the thing takes off. Might as well start that clock ticking as soon as possible.
I may try planting a seed directly into the new SIP I'll build this weekend as the plant I was going to transplant into it isn't as far along as I'd prefer so that might make for a good experiment. Assuming that it works as I expect it to, that could be the 'go-to' for auto growers. No transplant issues, and on-point watering from the get go.
ReservoirDog
Well-Known Member
@Azimuth oh that's right, I remember you mentioning two. I think you're probably bang on. I have really good flow between my filler and drain, poss because both are pipes, but I tested with candle and vapour, and showed major flow all the time. My plants also look 'mankier' when that airspace is made smaller and smaller. They will take on the over-heavy, over-watered look even though the space isn't compromised, just radically reduced to less than a cm. Gotsa have flo.
That's interesting about the vapor test.
I would imagine that that might work better with the height difference between overflow and fill tube vs having my two at roughly the same height. Maybe I'll shorten one and see if I can get some flow. Good idear.
Assuming the seed planted directly into the SIP works, how about this for an ideal ...
"New Grower Package."
A 2 or 5 Gallon SIP
A good soil mix
GeoFlora nutes
MarsHydro Tent Package with a light and fan
Train with a quadline and you have a super easy, but very effective grow for even a first time grower, even with autos.
"New Grower Package."
A 2 or 5 Gallon SIP
A good soil mix
GeoFlora nutes
MarsHydro Tent Package with a light and fan
Train with a quadline and you have a super easy, but very effective grow for even a first time grower, even with autos.
Just need the first 3 lol
- Thread starter
- #140
Hi & welcome. I've seen some of your plants in the contest. Got some nice ones for sure. These SIP's are pretty new to me, but I'm loving them so far. Plants seem to grow almost as fast as DWC.