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Thirvnrob
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One month later you can see she’s indicating some deficiency. I had top dressed her with Gaia Green power bloom…
Thirvnrob's Power Plant - TLO Soil In SIP Containers
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Thirvnrob
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And then a couple weeks later…
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Thirvnrob
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Her sister had issues as well. Her leaves dried up and twisted & appeared to be in agony while producing the most massive & dense buds I’ve ever seen.
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Thirvnrob
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A couple more. Any evaluations? Notice the clawing…
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Thirvnrob
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Here’s some pics from the harvest…
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Thirvnrob
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And a couple more…
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Thirvnrob
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Smoke report.
Since they expressed themselves so differently, I’ve kept them separate & I’m glad I did. The one with the Sativa appearance delivers a quick & uplifting buzz that lasts a good while. Within a few minutes of indulging I have my guitar in my hands. I can’t resist it. I also love being on my deck & listening to the many sounds of nature around my home.
The one that expressed her Indica genes produces an Indica experience, meaning I shouldn’t drive or operate machinery & sleep comes easily & quickly after about an hour.
I wonder what they might have produced had I been able to stay on top of the grow? I’ve had time to get the grow room & the SIPs cleaned up & ready for the next grow - Green Crack. My mouth waters as I speak.
Since they expressed themselves so differently, I’ve kept them separate & I’m glad I did. The one with the Sativa appearance delivers a quick & uplifting buzz that lasts a good while. Within a few minutes of indulging I have my guitar in my hands. I can’t resist it. I also love being on my deck & listening to the many sounds of nature around my home.
The one that expressed her Indica genes produces an Indica experience, meaning I shouldn’t drive or operate machinery & sleep comes easily & quickly after about an hour.
I wonder what they might have produced had I been able to stay on top of the grow? I’ve had time to get the grow room & the SIPs cleaned up & ready for the next grow - Green Crack. My mouth waters as I speak.
I'll say! Those buds are Huge! great harvest Thrive!
Damn good thing you kept them separate or it would be like mixing all your pills in one bottle and popping them blindfolded!
A couple more. Any evaluations? Notice the clawing…
Looks like you ran out of carbon. Do you have a link to your mix/recipe? Are those 5 gallons? TLO has a habit of running out of carbon in containers smaller than 7 gallons if your coco ratios aren’t dialed in.
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Thirvnrob
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@Keffka I use the rev’s TLO recipe. Something tells me you’re familiar with it, but if not, I can provide it. Yes, they’re 5 gallon buckets & I learned from my last grow that 5 gallon buckets don’t contain enough soil to sustain them through flower. I’m pretty addicted to SIPs now. I’m considering spikes for flower but I haven’t tried it in these containers. I top dressed them once during veg & once during flower with Gaia Green amendments.
The main problem with this grow was that I just wasn’t able to tend my garden due to more pressing issues.
My upcoming grow will also be in 5 gallon containers so I’m seeking guidance about how, when & with what to amend my soil. I have two baby Green Crack on deck for my next journal & I want to keep them properly fed…
The main problem with this grow was that I just wasn’t able to tend my garden due to more pressing issues.
My upcoming grow will also be in 5 gallon containers so I’m seeking guidance about how, when & with what to amend my soil. I have two baby Green Crack on deck for my next journal & I want to keep them properly fed…
@StoneOtter grows in The Rev's mix. Larger containers though.
I've had a few do well in 5 gal pots. Flipping early was the key I think. Make 4 good nodes and they'll make nice big buds! Quadline was the other technique that helped I think. Yep, The Rev soil is it for me too! 7 gal pots are right on the edge of making almost any size plant, but 10 gal is perfect in Rev soil in my opinion in cloth pots in a tent.
I am intimately familiar with it lol.. @Gee64 also has quite a bit of experience with it as well.
Your plants looks almost identical to my previous grow which was done in 3 gallons with a variation on Revs mix, and the grow before that, also in 3 gallons. Same situation. The majority of the grow goes great. However you seem to slam into a wall right around the end of stretch and the plant starts showing all kinds of random issues that don’t make total sense.
It’s carbon. The microbes run out of their fuel source and can no longer provide the nutrients the plant needs. This in turn leads to cannibalization and the plant showing crazy stuff happening with no good explanation and nothing seems to fix it. You may ease it but there’s still clearly something happening.
I haven’t found the proper ratios yet that will allow me to go into containers smaller than 7. I went back and read over Revs stuff to figure out what was happening because he says he grows out 2-3 gallon pots. Turns out he’s not pushing the plants as hard as we are. His 2-3 gallons will typically produce 2-3 ounces whereas my most recent 3 gallon pushed out 5 ounces.
Plus, Rev has been using the same soils for years so he has extra carbon and nutrients built up in his soils.
This grow I decided I’m not effing around
I created his 2.2 recipe to the gram and will be using 10 gallon plus pots.
Gee64
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Were these grown from seed? The Rev gets away with very small pots because he flowers from clone.I am intimately familiar with it lol.. @Gee64 also has quite a bit of experience with it as well.
Your plants looks almost identical to my previous grow which was done in 3 gallons with a variation on Revs mix, and the grow before that, also in 3 gallons. Same situation. The majority of the grow goes great. However you seem to slam into a wall right around the end of stretch and the plant starts showing all kinds of random issues that don’t make total sense.
It’s carbon. The microbes run out of their fuel source and can no longer provide the nutrients the plant needs. This in turn leads to cannibalization and the plant showing crazy stuff happening with no good explanation and nothing seems to fix it. You may ease it but there’s still clearly something happening.
I haven’t found the proper ratios yet that will allow me to go into containers smaller than 7. I went back and read over Revs stuff to figure out what was happening because he says he grows out 2-3 gallon pots. Turns out he’s not pushing the plants as hard as we are. His 2-3 gallons will typically produce 2-3 ounces whereas my most recent 3 gallon pushed out 5 ounces.
Plus, Rev has been using the same soils for years so he has extra carbon and nutrients built up in his soils.
This grow I decided I’m not effing around
I have used his recipes/system more or less, for about 5 years now.
When growing from clone, 2-3 gallon pots will work, but from seed, like StoneOtter, I find 7gal is minimum, bare minimum, and I mainly use 10gals.
Anything less and it becomes a juggling act to balance having enough nutes in the pot but also having enough carbon, as space is limited.
This is because in veg the plant can't raise brix so it relies on soil carbon and quite often it gets depleted before the end of stretch when brix naturally climb, and high brix doesn't get achieved.
From clone you only require 2-3 weeks of veg so far less soil carbon is required.
If you keep your myco strong and healthy and your microbes don't diminish, then at a certain point your brix levels will go over 12 at which point the plant will be producing not only enough carbon for itself, but enough to feed the fungii/microherd as well, and soil carbon is no longer needed.
I strive for this by Day 21 of flower. This definitely looks like a carbon issue. You almost made it to the finish line though. Well done! Thats a ton of bud for a 5gal to produce.
You need 5 things to get your brix up, and it won't happen until flower starts. The 5 key ingredients are calcium, phosphorus, oxygen, carbon, and fungii/microbes.
Calcium and phosphorus can easily be increased through top dressing, and oxygen is the alter-ego to water. If you want to up O2 you need to lower H2O content in the soil as one displaces the other. (water properly, it controls oxygen intake)
Fungii/microbes are easy, a steady slow supply of hydrolysed fish ferts will keep your fungii happy, and an EWC tea will increase your microbes.
That leaves carbon.
The quickest way to increase carbon is molasses. Blackstrap Molasses to be exact.
If you got that close, my guess is your plant had an episode (dried out, got really cold, etc, or ran out of calcium up top) and the soil tightened on you choking oxygen out, and as a result of the episode your plant's photosynthesis rate dropped and the plant could no longer produce enough carbon to sustain the microbes, and the catch-22 occurred. I doubt your soil quality was the cause. Just low carbon by a smidge.
Your carbon production stopped momentairily, but the pot never had enough carbon left in it to jumpstart the plant back into a higher brix level to be able to produce carbon (sugars) so it started eating leaves.
BSM (blackstrap molasses) will fix that for you in the future. @Keffka learned and demonstrated how to recover from it in his 1st journal and its a good example. I believe there is a link in Keff's signature.
Beauty Buds!
* an added bonus to getting your brix level above 12 is that bugs don't have a pancreas so they can' t digest sugars. Plants make sugars, which are your carbon source, so if a bug eats the sap of a high brix plant the sugars ferment inside the bug and turn to alcohol and kill the bug. Bugs know this so they avoid plants with high sugar content. Thats why bug spray is never needed in organics unless your brix levels are low. Brix are a direct indicator of plant health. Bugs cull the weak from the herd.
By natures standards, if you can't produce enough sugars to support yourself then you must relinquish your spot in the garden for the other plants. Bugs are the mechanism to do this by consuming the plant and pooping it back into the soil. By using and exploiting this principle I have never had a pest outbreak. I have had carbon issues though. Dang episodes!
NOOOBIENOT
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i use 20 or 30 gallon pots and the Rev`s mix and on my 4th grow with the same soil and its r.o. water only for me all the way through the grow. Between each grow i add more worm casting and a healthy amount of gia green nutes and some dolomite line and oyster shell flower and i water this with a weak solution of black strap molasses and cook it for about 3-4 weeks and its good to grow in .cloth pots and plant elevators ,no spikes no top dressing at all .
Honestly that’s the key right there. You don’t even need Revs mix at 20-30 gallons. You could legitimately just buy 2 bags of FFOF and grow water only the entire grow at those sizes. In organic growing the bigger container the better.
The true power of Revs mixes shines through when skirting the edges of container sizes. I completely forgot to mention the clone aspect like @Gee64 said, that makes the entire world of difference. Rev alludes to this in his books but never outright admits his 2-3 gallon mixes are for clones. He implies that from seed it’ll work but it doesn’t, even with spikes and layers. The carbon just isn’t there especially for the vigorous growth you get during Veg and stretch.
@Thirvnrob Gee and I have spent a lot of time and energy fleshing TLO from seed in small containers out and the results are almost always the same. A rescue is required almost like clockwork give or take a week. Like he said, the completed journals in my signature showcase this in two ways. The first caught me off guard and I was forced into BSM every watering and teas every 10 days in flower. The second time I was a little more prepared but was off balance so I was forced to utilize organic calmag until the end.
The quality was still far beyond anything I’ve smoked before but you could tell the plant didn’t reach its full potential. This grow I am currently launching will be done in 10 gallons and I will be using Revs genetics ordered from his Seedbank alongside the 2.2 mix. I plan on pushing his blue Thai to its absolute limit.
My bad I meant to edit this into my comment but fat fingered the post button lol
This jives with @StoneOtter observations that flipping to flower earlier helps. If you run from seed you need to go for at least 54 days as opposed to 14-21 for a clone.
Good stuff.
If staying with the same size pots is it reasonable to try to bring it home mid to late flower with something like topdressing with Geoflora Bloom?
If staying with the same size pots is it reasonable to try to bring it home mid to late flower with something like topdressing with Geoflora Bloom?
Absolutely. To be fair, @GeoFlora Nutrients is a different beast. It’s a pretty self contained formula so essentially what would occur is it would replace the microbes in the pot that are running out of fuel with microbes that have their own food and fuel source. You could see a nice bump as the old microbes die away and free up the nutrients in their bodies.
This and blackstrap molasses would be my two preferences. Any other top dressing/rescue would be a distant second due to the low carbon levels slowing the microbes down.