SIP - Pity Do Dah, SIP - Pity A

[Buds Buddy]

And here are the 2 SIP Buckets I moved to the tent. These girls are almost as big as the plants in the background that are almost ready to harvest. They have only been on 12/12 for 2 days so they should get quite a bit bigger. They will surely be bigger than the regular potted plants in the pics.

And that's where we are as of today. Looking forward to seeing their size after the stretch. I'm seeing just a little bit of "N" Tox. in the leaves. Unless it gets worse I'm not going to worry about it because these plants always seem to need the added "N" during flower.

 

[Azimuth]

Azimuth, correct me if I'm wrong Azi, used a clear container only for experimental purposes, to better understand root behaviour in his system.

Yes, true, but I do also employ a cover cup to help keep the roots protected. The cover cup is white so not ideal, but it is better than just keeping the roots exposed. I suppose I could wrap them in something which I originally considered, but never did deploy.

This is what I don't get:
Buds didn't use anything for aeration, half-drowns his girls, and they are huge!
On the other hand, @ReservoirDog and @Bill284 both emphasize aeration--they just have different ways of going about it.

Buds is using the commercial pot insert version which builds in the air gap. He originally neglected to drill the overflow hole which is placed to insure that there is  always an air gap, so in his prior grow there were brief periods shortly after watering where the air gap was not present due to an overfill of the reservoir. However, once the plants started to drink, the air gap was restored and the roots once again had direct access to air.

Bill's mix building system works so well I believe because the extra drainage layers of perlite insure that there is never any standing water in the mix. This allows better aeration to the roots as well, although I don't think quite as efficiently as an empty pocket of air would. I suspect his is more about efficient drainage than about air, although in the absence of water there will be an increase in air to fill the mini voids.

ResDog's mix is more about trying to find the ideal balance between efficient wicking of moisture without allowing too much, too fast. He does employ the static air gap in his approach. So his comment of 40% aeration (perlite) has more to do with trying to control proper rates of water flow than it does providing air to the roots up in the medium.

 

[CBDMed]

Hey Azi.
May I please ask you a few questions?

Buds is using the commercial pot insert version which builds in the air gap. He originally neglected to drill the overflow hole which is placed to insure that there is  always an air gap, so in his prior grow there were brief periods shortly after watering where the air gap was not present due to an overfill of the reservoir. However, once the plants started to drink, the air gap was restored and the roots once again had direct access to air.

If airflow is the thing, then does it make sense to drill four or six overflow holes, to provide cross-ventilation? (Maybe taking it a bit to an extreme, but this is the 420 forum, after all, haha).

Bill's mix building system works so well I believe because the extra drainage layers of perlite insure that there is never any standing water in the mix.

Makes sense. I am hoping to test it out.

This allows better aeration to the roots as well, although I don't think quite as efficiently as an empty pocket of air would.

Sí.
But then his roots have more aeration throughout the whole pot, but they don't air prune (which seems like more than one complicating factor).

I suspect his is more about efficient drainage than about air, although in the absence of water there will be an increase in air to fill the mini voids.

Hmmmm....
May I please ask what leads you to suspect that?

ResDog's mix is more about trying to find the ideal balance between efficient wicking of moisture without allowing too much, too fast. He does employ the static air gap in his approach. So his comment of 40% aeration (perlite) has more to do with trying to control proper rates of water flow than it does providing air to the roots up in the medium.

Ahh, ok. Makes sense.
Need time to think and sort and mull it over while stoned.....

Thanks!

 

[Azimuth]

If airflow is the thing, then does it make sense to drill four or six overflow holes, to provide cross-ventilation?

I think so, but that is only my speculation after pondering this pot setup for a while. It's not been tested to my knowledge. But the concept of trying to get air  flow rather than a simple air pocket is why I build mine with fill tubes on opposite sides of the container. These larger diameter tubes should be more efficient than extra drainage holes, but same basic concept.

One downside of extra drainage holes is more opportunity for spillage when moving the pots around.

But then his roots have more aeration throughout the whole pot, but they don't air prune (which seems like more than one complicating factor).

They don't air prune because the minute gaps in between the perlite chunks are not big enough that the roots can't find something moist to attach to on the other side of the gap. I see that in my hydroton filled reservoirs. Those gaps are bigger than those found in perlite but the roots seem quite happy. That might be a different story if a drying breeze were introduced, but in my setup with the 1L containers, I don't even have a fill tube so air flow is pretty much nonexistent.

Hmmmm....
May I please ask what leads you to suspect that

Bill's airpots allow his roots much more access to air, at least on the sides of the pots, but there is really no air  flow through the mix. Think about it like trying to blow through a pipe filled with perlite. Yes, there will be some air that makes it to the other side but no where near as much as blowing through an empty pipe.

 

[CBDMed]

I think so, but that is only my speculation after pondering this pot setup for a while. It's not been tested to my knowledge. But the concept of trying to get air  flow rather than a simple air pocket is why I build mine with fill tube on opposite sides of the container. These larger diameter tubes should be more efficient than extra drainage holes, but same basic concept.

One downside of extra drainage holes is more opportunity for spillage when moving the pots around.


They don't air prune because the minute gaps in between the perlite chunks are not big enough that the roots can't find something moist to attach to on the other side of the gap. I see that in my hydroton filled reservoirs. Those gaps are bigger than those found in perlite but the roots seem quite happy. That might be a different story if a drying breeze were introduced, but in my setup with the 1L containers, I don't even have a fill tube so air flow is pretty much nonexistent.


Bill's airpots allow his roots much more access to air, at least on the sides of the pots, but there is really no air  flow through the mix. Think about it like trying to blow through a pipe filled with perlite. Yes, there will be some air that makes it to the other side but no where near as much as blowing through an empty pipe.

Ahhh..... thank you!! Your humble scientific point of view is always much appreciated!
But....
Airpots give much better airflow than fabric pots??

 

[GreenFingaz]

You spelled it wrong, supposed to be Sip!


Dark colors are better, if you can get them.


Well, I do use a cover cup over them. That allows me to slip to clear ones out and check on things. My cover cups are mostly white yogurt tubs, but would be better if they were dark. All that said, the white ones seem to work ok.


If you're in the US, I'd suggest the dark blue Lowes buckets. They even have them in the two gallon size which is what I have to use for my space.

Not in the

This morning I put the 2 Tent Pole fans in the 2x4 tent for the Aurora's. I also did my Defol & Trim for Flower on them. They will start flower next week. I filled the Res. on these about 10 last night & here 6.5 hours later they are 1/2 empty.
I'll refill them before lights out.

Man they are thirsty girls. Not surprised with a stalk like that jeeez. Its like they're in coco lol

 

[Azimuth]

Airpots give much better airflow than fabric pots??

Well, Airpots have bigger holes than are found in fabric pots, but I wouldn't say air flow is present in either.

Fabric pots work so well because the roots get air pruned when they try to venture out beyond them. The practice of drying out the end of the root causes new root hairs to be created further upstream on that root which builds a better root structure in the process. The same process happens with the Airpots.

 

[GreenFingaz]

Yooo guys has anyone seen these ac infinity fabric pots with a similar system to the sip buckets? Same water res at the bottom in a tray and a wick system.

I just stumbled across it on youtube.

 

[CBDMed]

Yooo guys has anyone seen these ac infinity fabric pots with a similar system to the sip buckets? Same water res at the bottom in a tray and a wick system.

I just stumbled across it on youtube.

Wow, @GreenFingaz, that's good!
A SWICK setup...

 

[Hash Hound]

Yooo guys has anyone seen these ac infinity fabric pots with a similar system to the sip buckets? Same water res at the bottom in a tray and a wick system.

I just stumbled across it on youtube.

Nice Green
Same principal as the riser plates with wicks I've been using.

 

[GreenFingaz]

Nice Green
Same principal as the riser plates with wicks I've been using.

Im sure yours cost less too lol. Must admit tho its a really good design.

 

[GreenFingaz]

Nice Green
Same principal as the riser plates with wicks I've been using.

Ive not heard of those riser plates do they have same purpose??

 

[Buds Buddy]

@Azimuth , you once asked if I thought I could refill the res. more than twice per day. I've been watching closely and I'm finding that they could be refilled every 6-8 hours. Problem is Lights On / Lights Off times; but I'm sure it could be worked out if I tried. So yes, I think in flower you could feed 3 times per day. I filled my buckets 6 hours ago & most are empty. The others at least 3/4 empty. Going to refill them now.
I'm going to have to try these buckets on a Coco grow & see what happens. I think it will work out great since Coco needs to be moist all the time. Your thoughts ?

 

[scottreid1966]

@Azimuth , you once asked if I thought I could refill the res. more than twice per day. I've been watching closely and I'm finding that they could be refilled every 6-8 hours. Problem is Lights On / Lights Off times; but I'm sure it could be worked out if I tried. So yes, I think in flower you could feed 3 times per day. I filled my buckets 6 hours ago & most are empty. The others at least 3/4 empty. Going to refill them now.
I'm going to have to try these buckets on a Coco grow & see what happens. I think it will work out great since Coco needs to be moist all the time. Your thoughts ?

I think that you would be constantly feeding considering the frequency in a regular pot.

@Azimuth , you once asked if I thought I could refill the res. more than twice per day. I've been watching closely and I'm finding that they could be refilled every 6-8 hours. Problem is Lights On / Lights Off times; but I'm sure it could be worked out if I tried. So yes, I think in flower you could feed 3 times per day. I filled my buckets 6 hours ago & most are empty. The others at least 3/4 empty. Going to refill them now.
I'm going to have to try these buckets on a Coco grow & see what happens. I think it will work out great since Coco needs to be moist all the time. Your thoughts ?

I think that the extra feeding may drive you nuts. Lol

 

[GreenFingaz]

@Azimuth , you once asked if I thought I could refill the res. more than twice per day. I've been watching closely and I'm finding that they could be refilled every 6-8 hours. Problem is Lights On / Lights Off times; but I'm sure it could be worked out if I tried. So yes, I think in flower you could feed 3 times per day. I filled my buckets 6 hours ago & most are empty. The others at least 3/4 empty. Going to refill them now.
I'm going to have to try these buckets on a Coco grow & see what happens. I think it will work out great since Coco needs to be moist all the time. Your thoughts ?

Hey buds is that just because of the size of the rez?

 

[LKABudMan]

Yooo guys has anyone seen these ac infinity fabric pots with a similar system to the sip buckets? Same water res at the bottom in a tray and a wick system.

I just stumbled across it on youtube.

Check out @Costanza he's using them now going into flower.

 

[Costanza]

Nice Green
Same principal as the riser plates with wicks I've been using.

I'm using these and they're currently giving me anxiety. Worked great in veg, but once I flipped to flower I ran into issues. the roots grew right out the bottom of the fabric pots, and are growing into the res. I messaged AC Infinity support and I honestly don't think they have a solution for this because the guy that got back to me recommended replanting into bigger container and that's just not possible in the first week of flower. In about 2 months I will have a good review for you.

 

[Buds Buddy]

I think that you would be constantly feeding considering the frequency in a regular pot.

I think that the extra feeding may drive you nuts. Lol

I don't think it would require any more feeding than soil.

 

[Buds Buddy]

Hey buds is that just because of the size of the rez?

Probably. It only holds a little over a gallon.

 

[Buds Buddy]

I'm using these and they're currently giving me anxiety. Worked great in veg, but once I flipped to flower I ran into issues. the roots grew right out the bottom of the fabric pots, and are growing into the res. I messaged AC Infinity support and I honestly don't think they have a solution for this because the guy that got back to me recommended replanting into bigger container and that's just not possible in the first week of flower. In about 2 months I will have a good review for you.

My roots grew into the res ... sort of too. They actually stopped about 1" above the water level.