SIP - Pity Do Dah, SIP - Pity A

[Buds Buddy]

I was proud of my new grow cabin until I laid eyes on your shed! Absolutely awesome.

NTH

The Mylar on the walls sure helps. I think it cost me about $60 for the roll of Mylar. It's glued to the walls with Elmer's glue. Bought a gal., poured it in a paint pan & rolled the glue on the walls. Lights are just hung by metal conduit & closet pole brackets. All has worked great for the past 2 years or so & was pretty cheap to do. I hung 2 conduit poles so I can hang a light just on one pole or 2 which allows me to slide the lights to almost any position with ease.

 

[scottreid1966]

Well canna-bro's, I just finished my first DYI SIP. The water retainers fit my pots like daddy into mommy.
Tested them first over night for leakage before the final assembly. It is 3 inches high while my center ring is 4.

I have one more to go. Will make two more when I up-pot the clones I just started.
This one is for gravel, next one is perlite for comparison. To avoid unclean water, the gravel was washed, let dry and sifted through the same 1/4 in chicken wire.

From what I've read so far, they grow faster. This is good for me because my Cafe Racer strain is a 10-12 week flower. I am curious to know if this process also speeds up the flowering. If not, I may need to add more height to my flowering space.

Looking forward to up-potting tomorrow. Will do another outter branch trim on my 2 quads. Did one a few nights ago and really need to avoid the mistakes of my first sloppy indoor grow.

Still too bushy. From what I have learned, alot of the lower won't amount to much.
The little girl on the bottom is an experimental Bonzai Mum. Don't really need it when I can always just clone from the many trimmings I do.
Thanks for the motivation, @Azimuth and I appreciate your grows @Buds Buddy . Definitely going follow this thread. Hope you don't mind if I post an update once in a while. You two really know your shit.
Have a good week-end.
Cheers!

 

[scottreid1966]

The Mylar on the walls sure helps. I think it cost me about $60 for the roll of Mylar. It's glued to the walls with Elmer's glue. Bought a gal., poured it in a paint pan & rolled the glue on the walls. Lights are just hung by metal conduit & closet pole brackets. All has worked great for the past 2 years or so & was pretty cheap to do. I hung 2 conduit poles so I can hang a light just on one pole or 2 which allows me to slide the lights to almost any position with ease.

Great job on the Mylar application. No air-bubbles and corners are perfect!

 

[Nine Toed Hippie]

Great job on the Mylar application. No air-bubbles and corners are perfect!

Awesome work

NTH

 

[Buds Buddy]

Well canna-bro's, I just finished my first DYI SIP. The water retainers fit my pots like daddy into mommy.
Tested them first over night for leakage before the final assembly. It is 3 inches high while my center ring is 4.

I have one more to go. Will make two more when I up-pot the clones I just started.
This one is for gravel, next one is perlite for comparison. To avoid unclean water, the gravel was washed, let dry and sifted through the same 1/4 in chicken wire.

From what I've read so far, they grow faster. This is good for me because my Cafe Racer strain is a 10-12 week flower. I am curious to know if this process also speeds up the flowering. If not, I may need to add more height to my flowering space.

Looking forward to up-potting tomorrow. Will do another outter branch trim on my 2 quads. Did one a few nights ago and really need to avoid the mistakes of my first sloppy indoor grow.

Still too bushy. From what I have learned, alot of the lower won't amount to much.
The little girl on the bottom is an experimental Bonzai Mum. Don't really need it when I can always just clone from the many trimmings I do.
Thanks for the motivation, @Azimuth and I appreciate your grows @Buds Buddy . Definitely going follow this thread. Hope you don't mind if I post an update once in a while. You two really know your shit.
Have a good week-end.
Cheers!

Feel free to post. Pretty cool to see a bunch of people interested in this & all the different ways it's being done.

 

[Azimuth]

From what I've read so far, they grow faster. This is good for me because my Cafe Racer strain is a 10-12 week flower. I am curious to know if this process also speeds up the flowering. If not, I may need to add more height to my flowering space.

I don't think so. But lucky for us, there is malted barley for that.

 

[scottreid1966]

I don't think so. Luckily, there is malted barley for that.

You really think so? I have another 4 weeks till I put them to flower.
Can that be bought, made or both.

Also wondering, after my tranfer into mthe SIP's tomorrow if I should start with plain water, Dandy tea or root excellerator. I checked and trimmed the girls well today and the pots were light. I know Dani says no, but worried that if I don't top water them they will starve before the roots reach.

Cheers!

 

[Azimuth]

You really think so? I have another 4 weeks till I put them to flower.
Can that be bought, made or both.

You could make the malted barley yourself but much simpler to just buy it. It can be found at any store carrying home brew supplies, but I got mine from the Jungle River. I run it thru a blender first as the finer the grind the easier for the microbes to process it for your plants. I apply it at about a tablespoon per gallon (or 1 tsp per liter) of pot size once a month but may go to twice a month as there doesn't seem to be much downside to increasing the application rate. This comes straight from the Clackamas Coot interview (transcript). I've highlighted key words to make finding info easier, so scroll down near the bottom to where you find the reference to 15% faster finishing times.

Also wondering, after my tranfer into mthe SIP's tomorrow if I should start with plain water, Dandy tea or root excellerator. I checked and trimmed the girls well today and the pots were light. I know Dani says no, but worried that if I don't top water them they will starve before the roots reach.

I haven't had much success feeding my organic nutes thru the reservoir, so now I just do plain water. Then I topdress and water in about once a week

 

[Buds Buddy]

You could make the malted barley yourself but much simpler to just buy it. It can be found at any store carrying home brew supplies, but I got mine from the Jungle River. I run it thru a blender first as the smaller the grind the easier for the microbes to process it for your plants. I apply it at about a tablespoon per gallon (or 1 tsp per liter) of pot size once a month but may go to twice a month as there doesn't seem to be much downside to increasing the application rate. This comes straight from the Clackamas Coot interview (transcript). I've highlighted key words to make finding info easier, so scroll down near the bottom to where you find the reference to 15% faster finishing times.


I haven't had much success feeding my organic nutes thru the reservoir, so now I just do plain water. Then I topdress and water in about once a week

I thought you referring to Malt Liquor Beer when you said Malted Barley. Didn't know you actually use it on your plants.
Lots & Lots to learn.

 

[Azimuth]

I thought you referring to Malt Liquor Beer when you said Malted Barley.

Hmmm, makes me wonder....

 

[Buds Buddy]

Hmmm, makes me wonder....

Quit wondering or you might get your plants drunk.

 

[Azimuth]

Quit wondering or you might get your plants drunk.

Honestly, they've been through worse.

 

[ReservoirDog]

Did someone a couple pages ago ask about the colour of the 5 gal bucket, re: light leaks?

Hey, SIPpers my internet connection has been down all day and is still problematic, having trouble with it so instead of searching it out, I'll just comment if that's alright.

I really recommend a light-blocking, in full, system. You're running a reservoir just like DWC and when you let light in, esp. to a reservoir with some nutrient in it, you're going to grow algae, a life-web that's quite complex, and cant be easily controlled. These webs will consume nutrient and change pH. Even organic grows have nitrogen in the SIP water from some leaching.

Again, I've no doubt successful grows take place in SIPs that leak light and grow algae. But, it is a risk to success and as a variable that is so easily removed, I can't think of a reason why you wouldn't do so. Even if you buy the white buckets then paint them, wrap them, tape them, whatever.... I mean, I even block light that comes down my fill tube with a cap that lets air pass through but blocks about 50% of light. Same on drain tube. Azimuth, correct me if I'm wrong Azi, used a clear container only for experimental purposes, to better understand root behaviour in his system.

 

[CBDMed]

Hey dog!

It's just not within my realm of experience to make a finite judgement, you're going to have to develop your own experience level.

Oh, ok. Got it!
Thanks!

What I'm trying to get across about SIPs fundamentally really is that the problem of water stops being about dealing with its scarcity, which really many horticulture practises are developed to combat, but instead your dealing with the potential always existing of too much water getting into the matrix.

Ahhh, yeah! That makes sense.

This is why the airgap is so fundamental and why, as I also hope to also get across, I believe that Azimuth's point that this air gap is the critical factor is not in conflict with my overall belief that SIP success is a function of a more efficient root system unburdened by flood and drought scenarios constantly taking place.

Yes, those two things do seem compatible.
And they do seem to both be present in a SIP.

There simply is a threat of root rot and root drowning in SIPs and the use of aeration, and keeping an eye on moisture-holding amendments like compost, are all ways to ensure that over the many, many days your plant's roots are in proximity to this much water, the critical oxygenation levels are maintained.

Got it.
Thanks!
That was very clear.
Thanks!

Lots of successful SIP grows with lots of compost have taken place, lots of SIP grows with little to no aeration have taken place, however, I think it is pretty clear from reading everything possible to find on grower SIP experience, that the primary threat is loss of oxygenation and subsequent root rot as the root fails.

Yes.
That does seem to be the case, doesn't it?
Hmmm........

Because SIP root systems appear to be reduced in mass given above-ground plant size when compared to other container grow styles, it is hard to not come to the conclusion that there is an efficiency advantage inherent in SIP-type growing.

Sí.

The notion of no longer needing to grow the largest most robust root system possible is going to take an awful lot of evidence behind it for most growers to come around, and considering the fact that its been accepted as axiomatic by growers for decades I'm not sure its even possible in the short term.

Yeah, my head is still bending on that one.

It does NOT seem intuitive!!"

But, as with any complex system that's been around long enough to have matured and already been streamlined, it is developing new efficiencies which ultimately give you success when competing against other complex systems.

Sí.

So when I say to have this much of that or this, I'm just reaching for what I believe offers you a reasonable safety margin.

Yeah, ok! Got it!
Thanks!

Yeah the air gap is key, and it's key because the wicking mechanism will proceed unchecked long past 'field capacity', ie will take on more moisture than is healthy for the plant, thus it needs to be countered.

Umm.....
Ok, but so then why are @Bill284 's layers not ideal, when you said earlier that they check water spread?
(Sorry for the ignorant question, just trying to understand.)

Soil is capable of holding much more moisture than is healthy for our plants so we need to build in safety features, features that will permit the plant to live without the experiences of drought and flood we've been pushing on them as a method of protecting them from 'user error' (over or under watering which is going to happen eventually if you have no way of really knowing what conditions are deep in the soil).

Leveraging the air gap's critical contribution by avoiding heavy moisture-holding soil mixes and utilizing a large aeration percentage simply puts you and keeps you in that ideal zone for the plant over more levels of "reservoir fullness", and will permit you to use the reservoir's level as a tool for managing the type of growth you want to see take place at any given moment. I think having an over-moist soil type will force the grower instead to have to keep her reservoir less full in order to manage against possible over-wetness instead of being able to utilize the entire range of her SIPs capacity at any and all times for whatever the scenario that warrants addressing. A fuller rez means a wetter soil in SIPs. So you want a totally full SIP to be a useable state of things just like you do a near empty one, so that the entire range is available to you as a tool for management.

Yeah, that makes sense.
But then (if I understand correctly), why did @Buds Buddy have insane growth when he was overwatering?

phew.

The gringuito is funny!

Haha, halleluyah!
I figure, life is short, we may as well enjoy it (and see if we can help others to enjoy it as well).

Sounds like a plan, Buds. Don't overdo it though. Your plant's hydrotropic root development ought to be well enough along by now to not be threatened by a single top watering.

Yeah, and if he has to slow growth at the same time while he is gone, top watering would seem like a logical solution.

 

[CBDMed]

I'm using FFOF (nothing added) & new from the bag. I'm using MC, Silica & Nitrogen @ 5 gr. per gal. (MC Nute Calculations per InTheShed). Didn't add any Perlite or anything for Aeration. Didn't on my last grow either. I believe the res. holds close to 1 gallon (4 liters). The plants are in my shed & it's old as it gets. But I totally redid it. New siding outside. 3" insulation on all inside walls & ceiling before putting up the inside 4x8 white bath wall boards. Covered that with 600 D Mylar. Ran all the electric myself to a 50 Amp breaker / pullout at the pedestal (power source that feeds the house & the shed. Shed has it's own breaker box. The res. I go by the float or I may as well say, I fill it till it comes out the drain hole.

Sorry, it is late, and the eyelids are closing.
This is what I don't get:
Buds didn't use anything for aeration, half-drowns his girls, and they are huge!
On the other hand, @ReservoirDog and @Bill284 both emphasize aeration--they just have different ways of going about it.
Maybe I will start my new thread soon.
I get 20 plants, I am thinking maybe we can design the ultimate experiment, like a four-way experiment mixing SIP, SWIK, Bill284's Perlite Parfait, and RezDog's 60-40 Mix.
Then we can test matching seeds.
(To do it perfect you would want clones, but this should tell us something.)
Thanks for all the help!!!!
I hope I can catch up this week.

 

[Buds Buddy]

This morning I put the 2 Tent Pole fans in the 2x4 tent for the Aurora's. I also did my Defol & Trim for Flower on them. They will start flower next week. I filled the Res. on these about 10 last night & here 6.5 hours later they are 1/2 empty.
I'll refill them before lights out.

 

[CBDMed]

I made the trip (round trip 8 hours of driving) with only a 30 min. break in between. Back in time to water my plants today & Harvest another plant.
My new Bud Trimmer is suppose to be here today. I have an untrimmed plant drying so I can try a dry trim with it. Also, going to try a wet trim with the plant I harvest today. See which way works best for me. The large colas I'll still hand trim, but the rest I'll use the trimmer on.
I'll get this updated with new pics today. Just waking up so got to get my head together first.

Yay!!

 

[CBDMed]

I've seen these on ebay and they're a good price too

Happy grow!
(It is a good idea to wash 'em real good [till they squeak], to get all the [toxic] mold release off 'em.
Hope you get a great harvest!

 

[Buds Buddy]

I harvested one of my other plants yesterday & have another in it's dark period now. So that took 2 more plants out of my 4x8 tent. There was only 5 plants left in there, so I moved 2 of my SIP buckets from the Shed to the tent. Much more convenient for feeding then carrying 5 gallons buckets to the shed.
But I still have these 2 girls in the shed with plenty of room to grow. Each plant has 450 watts of light over them.
By next week 3 more of my plants in the 4x8 will be done. At that time 1 Aurora will go in the tent & 1 will go to the shed to start flowering them.

 

[CBDMed]

Well canna-bro's, I just finished my first DYI SIP. The water retainers fit my pots like daddy into mommy.
Tested them first over night for leakage before the final assembly. It is 3 inches high while my center ring is 4.

I have one more to go. Will make two more when I up-pot the clones I just started.
This one is for gravel, next one is perlite for comparison. To avoid unclean water, the gravel was washed, let dry and sifted through the same 1/4 in chicken wire.

From what I've read so far, they grow faster. This is good for me because my Cafe Racer strain is a 10-12 week flower. I am curious to know if this process also speeds up the flowering. If not, I may need to add more height to my flowering space.

Looking forward to up-potting tomorrow. Will do another outter branch trim on my 2 quads. Did one a few nights ago and really need to avoid the mistakes of my first sloppy indoor grow.

Still too bushy. From what I have learned, alot of the lower won't amount to much.
The little girl on the bottom is an experimental Bonzai Mum. Don't really need it when I can always just clone from the many trimmings I do.
Thanks for the motivation, @Azimuth and I appreciate your grows @Buds Buddy . Definitely going follow this thread. Hope you don't mind if I post an update once in a while. You two really know your shit.
Have a good week-end.
Cheers!

@scottreid1966 , looks good!