Sweetsue's First Grow - Stealthy Trio of Autos Under CFLs

[COorganics]

Certainly, Sue. And I think that Doc Bud tries to distinguish that his method is different than organics, but his followers get confused there. That's what I'm reading anyway. Those links will answer all the remaining questions you have, bookmark or blog them or something so you can check out later. I promise you will be enlightened.

In cannamyth land everyone swears they have the system of all systems for growing cannabis, but know one knows how it works, except the company profiting from making and distributing the products. Do you honestly think that a gram of kit soil under a microscope would show the life that's in a gram of LOS? I find that one hard to believe. I guess the statement about them being "further down the same road" set me off a little bit yesterday.

 

[Graytail]

Sorry, phrasing. I'm referring to the recharge kit (excuse me if that's not the name for it) you have/recycling. It stands out from what we do with regard to no-till.

I wonder if you could explain the intricacies of the mychorrizae web and how it's affected in tilled or untilled soil ... ? If the roots of the harvested plant are coated with myco filaments when they're harvested and those roots are broken up and redistributed throughout the soil, aren't they available to the next plant when the roots come into contact again? When you don't till, those roots and filaments remain intact but they're not attached to a living plant until the new roots come into contact. I don't understand the difference.

Certainly, Sue. And I think that Doc Bud tries to distinguish that his method is different than organics, but his followers get confused there. That's what I'm reading anyway. Those links will answer all the remaining questions you have, bookmark or blog them or something so you can check out later. I promise you will be enlightened.

In cannamyth land everyone swears they have the system of all systems for growing cannabis, but know one knows how it works, except the company profiting from making and distributing the products. Do you honestly think that a gram of kit soil under a microscope would show the life that's in a gram of LOS? I find that one hard to believe. I guess the statement about them being "further down the same road" set me off a little bit yesterday.

I did read 'em. Everyone should. Seriously? Some guys on a forum doubting? But you're right - most of the people using the kit don't understand the complex chemistry the way LOS people do. I envy the hard work and research y'all put into it - must be nice to have that depth of knowledge.

 

[COorganics]

Thanks for this!

And you're right...I'm just going to drop it because some people got defensive. I guess I ask too many questions. Oh well.

Spend some time going through all 3 links above and you will find all the answers. I have to say, I am kinda impressed with your drive and perseverance. It's hard to be the only one questioning something. Gotta follow your gut and research. You pissed a lot of people off and got some answers. That's how it works. Organic cannabis growers have to battle the mainstream daily. I don't talk in person with people about how I grow exactly anymore. It's annoying. Someday maybe more eyes will be opened.

 

[SoilGirl]

HMMM oh no - did I just say a organic no-no LOL? From what I could tell everything in the high brix kit is organic, in the same sense as this sul-po-mag that looks like epsom's salt I have is (which I refuse to use... I'm scared to even give it to my worms!)... So its a disconnect between what is considered an organic feeding process and what things are naturally occurring. I disagree with the process being organic but I do believe these things, all naturally derived, deserve some credit for that. But the word manhandling comes back again.

Spurr makes great points on that first link CO, thank you for sharing that, I'm going to go through the next few and either way I don't plan on making any switch from LOS/ROLS.

I do still stand by saying they are 'cousins' - in that I bet I'd truly enjoy every resulting bud, and would consider them based in organic growing approaches; I'd feel comfortable giving them to my dad as medicine, where hydroponic/synthetic grown bud I probably wouldn't. However I agree, one is more organic than the rest. Otherwise I wouldn't be going down the path I'm going.

 

[COorganics]

Hi GT,
Fungal hyphae networks remain intact through not tilling the soil. Ideally I think, new roots grow out and reach this existing network in short order upon a new transplant into the no till container. Living mulch in the containers also assures roots are always present in the pots.

This discussion is probably pissing you off sorry for that.

 

[Graytail]

Heck, no. I just don't understand how an intact hyphae network unattached to a living plant is better than a network that's been broken up and distributed throughout the soil. Since you guys are dedicated to no-till, I just wanted to ask y'all rather than trying to find out for myself.

 

[SweetSue]

I feel ya.

I think the big thing is that those salts technically do occur naturally...but what gets me is that it is a very fine line between too much and just enough. Alot of the Hi-brix growers don't seem to understand quite what is going on with the kit they are using...which seems like a prime recipe for over fertilization. They are also chasing perfect soil...which is cool and all. But part of what makes LSO great is how unique each set up is and how resourceful we can be.

I am very interested though in seeing if we can obtain hi-brix without constantly recharging the soil and with out all the drench amendments. I think it possible!

We do recharge the soil ClosedCircuit. Every time I add an enzyme tea with fulvic acid, kelp meal and (in future) silica I'm recharging the stores in the soil matrix. Every time I feed eggshells or comfrey, or rock dust to my worm bin I know that these things will find their way into my soil as a top dress when I start my next grow. Every watering with aloe vera juice, coconut water, humic acid, yarrow, dandelion - all the wonderful things we creatively offer up to our soil in the hopes that this little plant that we grow - this individual who will have her own needs - will be able to have every whim met by the vibrant community that lives to ultimately serve her.

We're content to let our plants grow as they will. Sure, we dominate them sometimes in our ongoing attempt to encourage more harvest, but for the most part I find we're as much in love with the idea of growing obviously healthy plants with minimal effort and no worries - without chemical assistance. It gives us a sense of pride that we can do that. It's a bigger challenge than our grows make it look. Many have gone before us to perfect the basic soil recipe so we could reap the benefits.

LOS allows me to do that long term. I'm planning on years with this same soil in these same pots, completely undisturbed by more than planting the seed. Regular drenches, topdressing with homegrown vermicompost, lots of water and light. For years. Sounds like a plan.

 

[Doc Bud]

Spend some time going through all 3 links above and you will find all the answers. I have to say, I am kinda impressed with your drive and perseverance. It's hard to be the only one questioning something. Gotta follow your gut and research. You pissed a lot of people off and got some answers. That's how it works. Organic cannabis growers have to battle the mainstream daily. I don't talk in person with people about how I grow exactly anymore. It's annoying. Someday maybe more eyes will be opened.

All the answers in those links? All of them? Really?

I'm very willing to discuss all day long....ask away.

PS: I shouldn't have said all day long.....I'm actually going to be in my car for 4 hours and then at the Cannabis Cup after that. But I'll be more than happy to answer/discuss/debate on this topic for weeks or months.

It's my great passion in life and I've read all of that and more.

 

[COorganics]

Gt,
The containers are never ever void of living plant roots. Hyphae networks extend throughout the pot, attach to roots where they can.


They can then remain intact, and functioning throughout the entire soil mass, all the time, and the SWF gains strength and function over time this way.

Mulch is super key IMO, and living mulch, looked upon in this light, is a critical component of the no till process.

 

[COorganics]

All the answers in those links? All of them? Really?

I think so. I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again. I'm learning, we're all learning. I can stand by my statement though.

 

[Doc Bud]

Hi GT,
Fungal hyphae networks remain intact through not tilling the soil. Ideally I think, new roots grow out and reach this existing network in short order upon a new transplant into the no till container. Living mulch in the containers also assures roots are always present in the pots.

This discussion is probably pissing you off sorry for that.

Ah....but is a fungal dominated soil what you want for cannabis? I submit that a glomus dominated soil is far better for annuals, while the fungal soils are better for trees and perennials.

Why do you say this: "This discussion is probably pissing you off sorry for that." Are you truly sorry? Do you know that you're making him mad?

Here I am, willing to talk, share, discuss, debate. I'm not pissed off, threatened or angry in any way. In fact, I wish you could all come over and we could smoke, eat, drink and talk for a few days about this stuff. This is what I do, and I love it.

Here's why I do what I do:

1. Consistency. I know where my products come from and how much to use to get reliable, repeatable results.
2. Quality. My pictures can speak to this.
3. Scalability. I can do this in a 7 gallon pot or a 7 hectare plot. My products are designed for FARMERS.
4. Reproducibility: others can duplicate results often on their first try.
5. No insect pressure at all, no PM, Botyritis, etc.

Is it the ONLY or BEST way to grow? No....and I've never claimed it was. But it is 1-5 above and it's pretty easy too.

So, let's go about this like sincere seekers. Let's agree to be vulnerable and gracious and lets exchange ideas and info with a view towards mutual benefit, not "pissing" eachother off. BTW, I'm sure Graytail isn't pissed off.....

 

[Doc Bud]

I think so. I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again. I'm learning, we're all learning. I can stand by my statement though.

All the answers? What are the questions?

 

[Graytail]

Gt,
The containers are never ever void of living plant roots. Hyphae networks extend throughout the pot, attach to roots where they can.


They can then remain intact, and functioning throughout the entire soil mass, all the time, and the SWF gains strength and function over time this way.

Mulch is super key IMO, and living mulch, looked upon in this light, is a critical component of the no till process.

I apologize for banging away at it, but I don't understand the difference between hyphae networks attached to undisturbed roots and ones attached to disturbed roots.

 

[SoilGirl]

GT, fungal hyphae (esp. myco's) to my understanding, need living roots to attach to in order to survive. the roots feed the fungi and the fungi feed the plant in a symbiotic relationship. So when someone dries out or kills the roots they're attached to, the result is a heavy loss of the most important (imo) fungi population for plant growth in your soil.

Edit: Oh wait maybe I answered the wrong q. LOL.

Well my understanding is the fungal hyphae that are attached to roots act as extensions of those roots, growing off kinda like a little spider web of their own, if you disturb the roots then you rip those systems apart.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

I wonder if you could explain the intricacies of the mychorrizae web and how it's affected in tilled or untilled soil ... ? If the roots of the harvested plant are coated with myco filaments when they're harvested and those roots are broken up and redistributed throughout the soil, aren't they available to the next plant when the roots come into contact again? When you don't till, those roots and filaments remain intact but they're not attached to a living plant until the new roots come into contact. I don't understand the difference.





I did read 'em. Everyone should. Seriously? Some guys on a forum doubting? But you're right - most of the people using the kit don't understand the complex chemistry the way LOS people do. I envy the hard work and research y'all put into it - must be nice to have that depth of knowledge.

With companion cover crops myco is not just present in the cannabis root. You are developing an intricate network of fungi which is present in the soil with or with out your main crop (cannabis). That is rendered useless when you tear up the soil.

There's also more to gain by not tilling which is largely centered around the amount of available organic matter in the soil. Available organic matter declines when tilled. This happens because when you till you inject a tremendous amount of oxygen into the soil, fueling microbial degradation of organic matter, and depleting a primary source of nitrogen that would otherwise be more consistently released through no-till. Because of this you also lose the water retention capabilities of the organic matter.

Yes, you are reintroducing life to your soil every cycle, but it seems like you might be going through alot more effort to keep it alive when you have to start over every time. Not to mention, microbial life is not the only factor affected by tilling.

But I'm sensing some bitterness, so like I have already said...I'm dropping this. I have nothing to prove to you, and have been very adamant about being ignorant in part on the topic of Hi-brix. I am not a soil scientist. I am not a Botanist. I am a novice trying to soak up as much information as possible. I once again apologize if my questions offended you, but I do not regret asking them.

 

[Graytail]

But in no-till, they're attached to the roots of non-existing plants, just as they are when disturbed. When you put a new plant into that soil, nothing happens until a root comes into contact with a viable fungal body. In no-till, it comes into contact with fungi that are attached to dying, nonfunctional roots, just as in a tilled garden.

What's the difference?

 

[ClosedCircuit]

But in no-till, they're attached to the roots of non-existing plants, just as they are when disturbed. When you put a new plant into that soil, nothing happens until a root comes into contact with a viable fungal body. In no-till, it comes into contact with fungi that are attached to dying, nonfunctional roots, just as in a tilled garden.

What's the difference?

Again, with a cover crop you are maintaining a strong fungal presence that lives on without the need of the main crop. If you were going to till your soil and then immediately replant then maybe it wouldn't really matter. A cover crop maintains the hyphae network indefinitely with the added benefit of mulching the soil.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

We do recharge the soil ClosedCircuit. Every time I add an enzyme tea with fulvic acid, kelp meal and (in future) silica I'm recharging the stores in the soil matrix. Every time I feed eggshells or comfrey, or rock dust to my worm bin I know that these things will find their way into my soil as a top dress when I start my next grow. Every watering with aloe vera juice, coconut water, humic acid, yarrow, dandelion - all the wonderful things we creatively offer up to our soil in the hopes that this little plant that we grow - this individual who will have her own needs - will be able to have every whim met by the vibrant community that lives to ultimately serve her.

We're content to let our plants grow as they will. Sure, we dominate them sometimes in our ongoing attempt to encourage more harvest, but for the most part I find we're as much in love with the idea of growing obviously healthy plants with minimal effort and no worries - without chemical assistance. It gives us a sense of pride that we can do that. It's a bigger challenge than our grows make it look. Many have gone before us to perfect the basic soil recipe so we could reap the benefits.

LOS allows me to do that long term. I'm planning on years with this same soil in these same pots, completely undisturbed by more than planting the seed. Regular drenches, topdressing with homegrown vermicompost, lots of water and light. For years. Sounds like a plan.

Right, but I am referring to the act of tilling specifically. We do not turn everything over and add new nutrients. We allow for the continued decomposition of organic matter and then top dress or drench. I suppose its semantic really, but I specifically referring to essentially rebuilding the soil again and again where as we allow for a sort of evolution.

 

[COorganics]

The tilling of the soil is disturbing said networks. That's the advantage to no till. These networks take time to grow and get established, and with a cannabis plant you don't have much time.

 

[Graytail]

Again, with a cover crop you are maintaining a strong fungal presence that lives on without the need of the main crop. If you were going to till your soil and then immediately replant then maybe it wouldn't really matter. A cover crop maintains the hyphae network indefinitely with the added benefit of mulching the soil.

The mycos attached to the cover crop are beneficial to the new transplant??

I wasn't aware that they could sever themselves from one plant and attach to another.