Sweetsue's First Grow - Stealthy Trio of Autos Under CFLs

[Graytail]

I'd recommend discussing this in docs high brix q and a thread. Lots of knowledge there

Yeah, but it's spread over hundreds of pages.

I'm a bit dismayed listening to the discussion. "Marketing"? Ouch. Heheh, seriously, no one is marketing. Doc Bud is just a guy who went looking for something really simple and universal. His early find was a slow-release chemical fertilizer called Osmocote. It comes in "prills" - tiny balls - which release in water and heat. They had a version called Osmocote Plus that had especially high amounts of calcium which our plants like. I used that method on my first grow and it was great. All I had to do was water, and I turned out some beautiful plants - easy peasy, can't go wrong. Research on the benefits of calcium led Doc to mineralization. And mineralization led to a company of organic horticulturists who did the research to determine exactly what mineral balance was best for the soil biota, and therefore the plant. That's the key - the exact mineral balance for optimum biota populations. For instance, Potassium is bad for the biota even though traditionally, tree leaf mulch has been used in organic gardens. This mineral balance has been proven to be the best. The company tests a soil sample you send them, and then formulates an amendment, if possible, to bring it into balance. Most commercial soils and soilless mediums can't be balanced. Pro-Mix and Sunshine #4 can be.

And then, once you have proper mineral ratios, you've created a "perfect" environment for the biota - happy happy - and you can easily influence them with foliars and drenches. The foliars cause the root exudates to signal the biota. We tell the plant to ask the biota for certain nutrients, either to promote growth or fruiting/rooting. We add a concentrated microbial tea to nurture and restore the biota, and fishy ferts to support nitrogen levels in the plant. There's also a formulated drench - Cationic drench - to release fruiting nutrients locked up in soil ions.

So ... the kit is simply a formulated mineral amendment to tune the soil, with foliars and drenches to supplement and time development. And! it's cheap and foolproof, so I don't need to know anything in order to get great results. I will eventually learn more about what's happening and which factors are causing it, but Doc Bud's whole search was for something that a novice could use to get stellar results.

I've we HBers have made the whole thing sound exclusive and mysterious, that's bad - it's anything BUT that. It's just that it defies so much of what people believe, so we've kinda been off on our own. I doesn't matter a whit to any of us how you get high Brix plants - we just love ours! Sweetsue, your Buddha in particular looks like it reads very high Brix. The leaf vigor and the gorgeous waxy cuticle tell me it's probably at the high end of the range. I'm about the only HBer who takes many Brix readings. That's merely a way of measuring results - doesn't matter how you got there. Brix is just a measurement of plant health. In almost all cases, high Brix correlates with high health, and high health correlates with lotsa juicy trichs. Brix has been used in the winegrape industry for decades to measure sugars. There are probably more complex methods of measuring plant health, but this one is very simple - a refractometer costs $30-40. It takes a couple minutes to measure. No extractions, no expensive equipment.

The kit simply produces high Brix without knowing what you're doing. Oh, and it's really hard to mess it up. Really, it's not special or mysterious - just ... odd.

But I'm envious of what you're doing Sweetsue. Someday, I'll dive into the whole subject and find out what's really happening in the soil. The chemistry gets pretty complicated.

 

[nivek]

i wonder if it's possible to expect a city slicked attitude to be able to adapt that to this 'mindset' that you have sue,, it comes from too far down,, have to live ones life that way to 'know'. i see too many folks that try to contradict what they really are,, and it just does not work, in my eyes. good on you and all like you, i really do wish it was me, and it is in me somewhere, just not enough.

let me tell you what i think is an important issue, and like jack herer (sounds like terror), and his claim that hemp could save the world, i think maybe this could too, urine,, i just suggest to everyone to just do a bit of research on the subject. such a waste of a perfect fertilizer.

pissing on it could save the world.....

 

[ClosedCircuit]

Yeah, but it's spread over hundreds of pages.

I'm a bit dismayed listening to the discussion. "Marketing"? Ouch. Heheh, seriously, no one is marketing. Doc Bud is just a guy who went looking for something really simple and universal. His early find was a slow-release chemical fertilizer called Osmocote. It comes in "prills" - tiny balls - which release in water and heat. They had a version called Osmocote Plus that had especially high amounts of calcium which our plants like. I used that method on my first grow and it was great. All I had to do was water, and I turned out some beautiful plants - easy peasy, can't go wrong. Research on the benefits of calcium led Doc to mineralization. And mineralization led to a company of organic horticulturists who did the research to determine exactly what mineral balance was best for the soil biota, and therefore the plant. That's the key - the exact mineral balance for optimum biota populations. For instance, Potassium is bad for the biota even though traditionally, tree leaf mulch has been used in organic gardens. This mineral balance has been proven to be the best. The company tests a soil sample you send them, and then formulates an amendment, if possible, to bring it into balance. Most commercial soils and soilless mediums can't be balanced. Pro-Mix and Sunshine #4 can be.

And then, once you have proper mineral ratios, you've created a "perfect" environment for the biota - happy happy - and you can easily influence them with foliars and drenches. The foliars cause the root exudates to signal the biota. We tell the plant to ask the biota for certain nutrients, either to promote growth or fruiting/rooting. We add a concentrated microbial tea to nurture and restore the biota, and fishy ferts to support nitrogen levels in the plant. There's also a formulated drench - Cationic drench - to release fruiting nutrients locked up in soil ions.

So ... the kit is simply a formulated mineral amendment to tune the soil, with foliars and drenches to supplement and time development. And! it's cheap and foolproof, so I don't need to know anything in order to get great results. I will eventually learn more about what's happening and which factors are causing it, but Doc Bud's whole search was for something that a novice could use to get stellar results.

I've we HBers have made the whole thing sound exclusive and mysterious, that's bad - it's anything BUT that. It's just that it defies so much of what people believe, so we've kinda been off on our own. I doesn't matter a whit to any of us how you get high Brix plants - we just love ours! Sweetsue, your Buddha in particular looks like it reads very high Brix. The leaf vigor and the gorgeous waxy cuticle tell me it's probably at the high end of the range. I'm about the only HBer who takes many Brix readings. That's merely a way of measuring results - doesn't matter how you got there. Brix is just a measurement of plant health. In almost all cases, high Brix correlates with high health, and high health correlates with lotsa juicy trichs. Brix has been used in the winegrape industry for decades to measure sugars. There are probably more complex methods of measuring plant health, but this one is very simple - a refractometer costs $30-40. It takes a couple minutes to measure. No extractions, no expensive equipment.

The kit simply produces high Brix without knowing what you're doing. Oh, and it's really hard to mess it up. Really, it's not special or mysterious - just ... odd.

But I'm envious of what you're doing Sweetsue. Someday, I'll dive into the whole subject and find out what's really happening in the soil. The chemistry gets pretty complicated.

Definitely clarified alot when I went over there today. I have read through some of his thread before, but the sheer size of Doc's threads make them a little intimidating, which is why I was in the dark. I was basing alot of my opinion on what the official Hi-Brix product site was selling, not really being aware of the purely organic approach to it. Though, its still a little unsettling to me that there is a fertilizer face to the hi-brix movement regardless of what many cannabis growers are working with.

So I guess I should amend my understanding. Any grow can theoretically be Hi-Brix, however unlikely it is that some methods would attain high-brix. You guys are simply just measuring certain metrics in the plant to ascertain peak plant production....I may have to steal some of your methods.

You learn something knew every day!

 

[SweetSue]

Yeah, but it's spread over hundreds of pages.

I'm a bit dismayed listening to the discussion. "Marketing"? Ouch. Heheh, seriously, no one is marketing. Doc Bud is just a guy who went looking for something really simple and universal. His early find was a slow-release chemical fertilizer called Osmocote. It comes in "prills" - tiny balls - which release in water and heat. They had a version called Osmocote Plus that had especially high amounts of calcium which our plants like. I used that method on my first grow and it was great. All I had to do was water, and I turned out some beautiful plants - easy peasy, can't go wrong. Research on the benefits of calcium led Doc to mineralization. And mineralization led to a company of organic horticulturists who did the research to determine exactly what mineral balance was best for the soil biota, and therefore the plant. That's the key - the exact mineral balance for optimum biota populations. For instance, Potassium is bad for the biota even though traditionally, tree leaf mulch has been used in organic gardens. This mineral balance has been proven to be the best. The company tests a soil sample you send them, and then formulates an amendment, if possible, to bring it into balance. Most commercial soils and soilless mediums can't be balanced. Pro-Mix and Sunshine #4 can be.

And then, once you have proper mineral ratios, you've created a "perfect" environment for the biota - happy happy - and you can easily influence them with foliars and drenches. The foliars cause the root exudates to signal the biota. We tell the plant to ask the biota for certain nutrients, either to promote growth or fruiting/rooting. We add a concentrated microbial tea to nurture and restore the biota, and fishy ferts to support nitrogen levels in the plant. There's also a formulated drench - Cationic drench - to release fruiting nutrients locked up in soil ions.

So ... the kit is simply a formulated mineral amendment to tune the soil, with foliars and drenches to supplement and time development. And! it's cheap and foolproof, so I don't need to know anything in order to get great results. I will eventually learn more about what's happening and which factors are causing it, but Doc Bud's whole search was for something that a novice could use to get stellar results.

I've we HBers have made the whole thing sound exclusive and mysterious, that's bad - it's anything BUT that. It's just that it defies so much of what people believe, so we've kinda been off on our own. I doesn't matter a whit to any of us how you get high Brix plants - we just love ours! Sweetsue, your Buddha in particular looks like it reads very high Brix. The leaf vigor and the gorgeous waxy cuticle tell me it's probably at the high end of the range. I'm about the only HBer who takes many Brix readings. That's merely a way of measuring results - doesn't matter how you got there. Brix is just a measurement of plant health. In almost all cases, high Brix correlates with high health, and high health correlates with lotsa juicy trichs. Brix has been used in the winegrape industry for decades to measure sugars. There are probably more complex methods of measuring plant health, but this one is very simple - a refractometer costs $30-40. It takes a couple minutes to measure. No extractions, no expensive equipment.

The kit simply produces high Brix without knowing what you're doing. Oh, and it's really hard to mess it up. Really, it's not special or mysterious - just ... odd.

But I'm envious of what you're doing Sweetsue. Someday, I'll dive into the whole subject and find out what's really happening in the soil. The chemistry gets pretty complicated.

Thank you Greytail, for that insightful addition to our conversation. I now have a much better idea of HB. We really are two sides of the same coin. I sensed that looking at your georgeous plants. I applaud Doc Bud for developing the system and the price is reasonable. It's a step up from what PeeJay has done - a very big step. All three approaches offer success without worry. This is good regardless of which one you choose. It's the growing of high quality organic medicine that is the ultimate goal. Organic practices will only become more popular as we go on, so it's good that we have good options to offer new growers.

Greytail, I assure you, the same thing is going on in your soil.

 

[SweetSue]

I'd still like to know what's in that High Brix kit.

 

[Dutty Panty]

Definitely clarified alot when I went over there today. I have read through some of his thread before, but the sheer size of Doc's threads make them a little intimidating, which is why I was in the dark. I was basing alot of my opinion on what the official Hi-Brix product site was selling, not really being aware of the purely organic approach to it. Though, its still a little unsettling to me that there is a fertilizer face to the hi-brix movement regardless of what many cannabis growers are working with.

So I guess I should amend my understanding. Any grow can theoretically be Hi-Brix, however unlikely it is that some methods would attain high-brix. You guys are simply just measuring certain metrics in the plant to ascertain peak plant production....I may have to steal some of your methods.

You learn something knew every day!

Glad you looked into that once I mentioned I wouldn't of if not for graytail see just trying to help each other out.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

I'd still like to know what's in that High Brix kit.

Jump on over to Doc's thread. In the last couple pages they explained some of the amendments to me. It all depends on how your soil tests. You test the soil then they send you a kit based on your soil's needs...personally I like the fiddling we do with our soil.

 

[SweetSue]

Jump on over to Doc's thread. In the last couple pages they explained some of the amendments to me. It all depends on how your soil tests. You test the soil then they send you a kit based on your soil's needs...personally I like the fiddling we do with our soil.

I did just that ClosedCircuit, and enjoyed every minute of the discussion. I believe they are on to something. I also believe there are many ways to reach the same, or similar results, and I believe we are doing quite well with LOS.

My LOS goal is to continue the pots as no-till. A step in that direction was reached today when I received my shipment of aloe vera powder, malted barley grain and Ful-Power fulvic acid.

My Dream Watering Schedule:

Because I use a SWICK system there isn't any need for top watering, so there would only need to be two scheduled drenches. They would both be applied every week, regardless of the stage of growth the plants are in.

#1 Enzyme Tea (puréed sprouts or malted barley grain)
- per gallon of ready-to-use water add 10ml Ful-Power and 5ml Agsil

#2 aloe vera/coconut water
- per gallon of ready-to-use water add 5ml Agsil

Every 6 weeks substitute a neem/kelp tea for Integrated Pest Management and nutrition. Six weeks later alternate that tea with an alfalfa/kelp tea for diversity.
- per gallon ready-to-use water add 5ml Agsil and TM7 (at a ratio of 1/2 tsp TM7 to 5 gallons tea)

** BlueJay waters his no-tills every two days, with just plain water every other time. So in a month there would be 7 drenches of enzyme teas and 7 drenches of aloe/coconut water. There's a weekly application of fulvic acid and twice weekly (at least) applications of Agsil.


The Agsil will have to wait until next month. For now I'll be content to being closer to the goal and knowing I'm able to begin seriously adding to the quality of the soil. Let the fun continue.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

I did just that ClosedCircuit, and enjoyed every minute of the discussion. I believe they are on to something. I also believe there are many ways to reach the same, or similar results, and I believe we are doing quite well with LOS.

My LOS goal is to continue the pots as no-till. A step in that direction was reached today when I received my shipment of aloe vera powder, malted barley grain and Ful-Power fulvic acid.

My Dream Watering Schedule:

Because I use a SWICK system there isn't any need for top watering, so there would only need to be two scheduled drenches. They would both be applied every week, regardless of the stage of growth the plants are in.

#1 Enzyme Tea (puréed sprouts or malted barley grain)
- per gallon of ready-to-use water add 10ml Ful-Power and 5ml Agsil

#2 aloe vera/coconut water
- per gallon of ready-to-use water add 5ml Agsil

Every 6 weeks substitute a neem/kelp tea for Integrated Pest Management and nutrition. Six weeks later alternate that tea with an alfalfa/kelp tea for diversity.
- per gallon ready-to-use water add 5ml Agsil and TM7 (at a ratio of 1/2 tsp TM7 to 5 gallons tea)

** BlueJay waters his no-tills every two days, with just plain water every other time. So in a month there would be 7 drenches of enzyme teas and 7 drenches of aloe/coconut water. There's a weekly application of fulvic acid and twice weekly (at least) applications of Agsil.


The Agsil will have to wait until next month. For now I'll be content to being closer to the goal and knowing I'm able to begin seriously adding to the quality of the soil. Let the fun continue.

Definitely, another big difference is that we aren't recycling soil...and is in a way a bit more sustainable because of that. I'm not sure if we could do quite the same thing as them, but I think the results could be nearly identical. Its just a different route.

 

[Graytail]

I think where HB and LOS can meet is with very large soil masses. Doc knows people who grew in greenhouses and tried out increasingly larger soil beds. They determined that 10x10x3 feet was optimum for cannabis. At that size, the roots barely reached the edges.

Other growers have used 30 gallon tubs. In something that size, I think we could sustain a high Brix environment without tilling.

I have a concrete-walled 4x4 and have considered (while under the influence) what a 2 foot deep bed might be like to manage.

 

[Doc Bud]

I'd still like to know what's in that High Brix kit.

All you have to do is ask!

First of all, I'm not in any way, nor are my products in any way affiliated with "HiBrix" from Australia. I use no chelating agents of any kind, all of my products are GMO free, all the way down the food chain.

So, here's what in the kit:

Amendment: Carbonized Limestone, Soft Rock Phosphate, Organic fertilizer ( yeast based), bio-char, mycorhyzae, ammonium phosphate, copper sulfate, iron sulfate, kelp meal, some salt of molybdenum, zinc and 20 mule team borax.

Recharge: very similar to the Amendment but with a tad of magnesium added.

Tea: Liquid Humic acid with beneficials

Roots!: various rock powders, mainly limestone, gypsum and soft rock phosphate, with biochar, trace minerals a mycorhyzae that have been born and bred on the rock powders.

Growth Energy: Liquid calcium nitrate derived from naturally occuring chilean nitrate. Trace minerals.
Transplant: Cold water fish hydrolysate, chilean nitrate.
Cat Drench: fish hydrolysate from cold water fish, ammonium phosphate, ammonium sulfate
Brix foliar: fish hydrolysate, calcium phosphate, phosphoric acid, dextrose, kelp based natural plant growth regulators (PGR's...auxins, kinens, etc.)
DeStress Foliar: Kelp, phosphoric acid, PGR's, dextrose.

I think I got every ingredient. Essentially, it's just rocks, naturally occuring salts, fish juice, microbes, small amount of carbon and organic matter.

The soil is very much alive....which is the entire point of High Brix growing.

My system is designed with a post-prohibition mentality and all of these products are good to go right out of the bag/bottle with sprayers, broadcast spreaders, fertigation and all manner of greenhouse Dosatrons and related products.

But they can also be adapted to small hobby grows, just as easily.

So, you LOS/TLO folks are like our favorite cousins. We're about the same things, we just have a different style and understanding. I'd like to grow by the Hectare....but I'd also like quality to be BETTER than what I now grow AND I can't spend all day brewing AACT in a swimming pool to food everything!

So, products designed for farming and market gardens appeal to me. No bugs, high quality every time, flexibility, consistency.

But please don't say I'm using chemicals or chelation! That's not me, that's someone else from Australia!

 

[ClosedCircuit]

I think where HB and LOS can meet is with very large soil masses. Doc knows people who grew in greenhouses and tried out increasingly larger soil beds. They determined that 10x10x3 feet was optimum for cannabis. At that size, the roots barely reached the edges.

Other growers have used 30 gallon tubs. In something that size, I think we could sustain a high Brix environment without tilling.

I have a concrete-walled 4x4 and have considered (while under the influence) what a 2 foot deep bed might be like to manage.

I think you are right about a large scale set up. Though, would cost become a factor for the 10x10x3ft planter?

 

[Doc Bud]

I think you are right about a large scale set up. Though, would cost become a factor for the 10x10x3ft planter?

When you have a greenhouse with Ten of the 10x10x3 beds made of strawbales, the practice is to test outdoor soil, amend it, put it in the beds with a backhoe/skip loader and go from there. It's really not that expensive unless you buy your soil. But even that can be got at a substantial discount when you order by the pallet.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

When you have a greenhouse with Ten of the 10x10x3 beds made of strawbales, the practice is to test outdoor soil, amend it, put it in the beds with a backhoe/skip loader and go from there. It's really not that expensive unless you buy your soil. But even that can be got at a substantial discount when you order by the pallet.

If it were up to you how would you recycle the soil on a large scale with mixed crops? I'm thinking specifically about companion planting and staggered planting through out the year with minimal bed rotation.

 

[Doc Bud]

If it were up to you how would you recycle the soil on a large scale with mixed crops? I'm thinking specifically about companion planting and staggered planting through out the year with minimal bed rotation.

There's lots of ways to do it. Plants need to be grouped according to their foliar spray, which can be quite different depending on the crop. Same with drenches, so we mostly plant according to that.

Insects aren't much of a problem.

 

[SweetSue]

All you have to do is ask!

First of all, I'm not in any way, nor are my products in any way affiliated with "HiBrix" from Australia. I use no chelating agents of any kind, all of my products are GMO free, all the way down the food chain.

So, here's what in the kit:

Amendment: Carbonized Limestone, Soft Rock Phosphate, Organic fertilizer ( yeast based), bio-char, mycorhyzae, ammonium phosphate, copper sulfate, iron sulfate, kelp meal, some salt of molybdenum, zinc and 20 mule team borax.

Recharge: very similar to the Amendment but with a tad of magnesium added.

Tea: Liquid Humic acid with beneficials

Roots!: various rock powders, mainly limestone, gypsum and soft rock phosphate, with biochar, trace minerals a mycorhyzae that have been born and bred on the rock powders.

Growth Energy: Liquid calcium nitrate derived from naturally occuring chilean nitrate. Trace minerals.
Transplant: Cold water fish hydrolysate, chilean nitrate.
Cat Drench: fish hydrolysate from cold water fish, ammonium phosphate, ammonium sulfate
Brix foliar: fish hydrolysate, calcium phosphate, phosphoric acid, dextrose, kelp based natural plant growth regulators (PGR's...auxins, kinens, etc.)
DeStress Foliar: Kelp, phosphoric acid, PGR's, dextrose.

I think I got every ingredient. Essentially, it's just rocks, naturally occuring salts, fish juice, microbes, small amount of carbon and organic matter.

The soil is very much alive....which is the entire point of High Brix growing.

My system is designed with a post-prohibition mentality and all of these products are good to go right out of the bag/bottle with sprayers, broadcast spreaders, fertigation and all manner of greenhouse Dosatrons and related products.

But they can also be adapted to small hobby grows, just as easily.

So, you LOS/TLO folks are like our favorite cousins. We're about the same things, we just have a different style and understanding. I'd like to grow by the Hectare....but I'd also like quality to be BETTER than what I now grow AND I can't spend all day brewing AACT in a swimming pool to food everything!

So, products designed for farming and market gardens appeal to me. No bugs, high quality every time, flexibility, consistency.

But please don't say I'm using chemicals or chelation! That's not me, that's someone else from Australia!

Thank you Doc. You're right - I could have just asked. It was invigorating to have the give and take between the journals. Everyone came away with a better understanding and appreciation of what you've got going with High Brix and I must say I'm impressed. I'm pretty committed to what I have created and I'm happy with the way this grow is going, but you certainly have me thinking about at least giving it a try when I have more room and I would certainly recommend growers give it serious consideration. The costs are certainly comparable and there's no denying that we're all harvesting top-quality organically grown medicine, which is the whole focus. It's also good to see both systems create what are basically water-only approaches. I'm all about simplicity.

Thank you again for so graciously expanding our knowledge base.

 

[SweetSue]

Daily Update: Day 62 (THC Bomb Auto) & Day 61 (Buddha Magnum Auto)

Not much visible change today. The progression to maturity is so subtle that it's hard to notice day-to-day, but they are still stunning when I come upon them in the morning. The closet is looking pretty crowded.

They got their quarter turn and the reservoirs topped off (the Bomb took about five cups and Buddha just under six). Then it was time to suck it up and give them some clippings for backbuilding buds. For anyone unfamiliar with the technique here's the link to LightAddict's tutorial on it.

https://https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/la-s-quick-guide-simple-backbuilding-technique-buds.209274/

I've been watching the girls closely to time this right. You want to be just over the halfway point of flowering, and with the accelerated life span of autos that can be tricky to determine. The Buddha in particular came with no real timeline expectations, so I'm winging it with her all the time. There has been a noticeable increase of changing pistils and we are coming into week ten, so I was feeling like it was now or never. Just looking at them I'd judge we have another 2-4 weeks to go.

It took me a moment to make that first clip .....

..... but I eventually made myself do it.

After the first cut it got easier to continue. I didn't get them all (Buddha hides hers) but I did get most of them. It will give me a couple untouched colas on each plant to compare.

When I was done, this was what I had clipped.

We'll watch to see if there's any noticeable improvement in the main colas. The Bomb will be easier to see, but Buddha may surprise us.

One more peek behind the screen before I move on to other concerns.

Later today I'll do an enzyme drench using malted barley grain and fulvic acid. I'm interested in seeing if I can notice any change in these already spectacular plants.

You all have a wonderful day. Go spread some joy.

 

[ClosedCircuit]

wow did not know you could do that! Did LA create this method?

 

[nivek]

good morning sue,, just learning something new from your journal, like i always do. i have never heard of bud clipping before. so many ways to try and assist nature along. i am very interested to see if it 'rounds' off the top of your plants like the other post shows,, you could have, or maybe are, a surgeon with that delicate touch of yours,, heres hoping it works,cheers, nivek

 

[Radogast]

wow did not know you could do that! Did LA create this method?

I believe light addict learned it hands-on from a pre-internet grower.
Knowledge passed down from an elder