SubCool Supersoil In SIPs With EWC, CBD Autos For Aspergers

[cbdhemp808]

N, P, K, Ca, Mg, S, C, pH 6.7

Looks pretty good to me! It must be from more than one source.

best of luck with that

 

[CBDMed]

OK, so for the Ox Virin... I wouldn't use that stuff at all.

Ok, thanks! Why do you say that?
I found some composition ingredients hidden in plain sight.
Google translate says it best. Hydrogen peroxide, peracetic acid, and acetic acid (vinegar??)
So, what?? Is this like hydrogen peroxide and vinegar for like $35 a gallon??? (And probably not even apple cider vinegar???)

You could hang onto the Bioxinis, but in order to know how to apply it, I would first need to understand the present state of minerals in your AMXXL SIP. Generally speaking, if you've been giving urine solution, then going into flower you also need to up the P & K. I'm feeling like your super soil, plus the N, plus some soluble P & K would be sufficient.

Ok.
This one is subcool's original super soil. Please let me know if you want me to list the ingredients again.
I think you have to supplement nitrogen when she's growing up, but subcool's is supposed to have all of everything included. (I used it before and it worked good. I filled the half of a 5 gallon or a 7 gallon cloth pot and grew nice big five or 6 foot bushes without even knowing what I was doing.)

Are you saying that it looks to you like she suddenly developed a lack of P & K?
Hmmm... She's just barely getting started flowering. I have a hard time imagining that she has tapped much of the P or K yet. Maybe the roots tapped K??
I have lots of liquid PK if that is what is required, but I am not convinced.
Oh, I do add the high dose of Azi's banana EWC anaerobic tea. I forget of that is P or K.

I am just imagining that hydrogen peroxide is going to be very hard on a plant. I am hoping the Bioxinis does the job!!
By the way, do you jnow what is in the Bioxinis?
I have to go to bed right now. Hopefully I can research it tomorrow afternoon.
I hope the Bioxinis does the trick! They have some nasty stufff here,

So I see two things going on: 1) adding some supplemental ferts to your SIPs, and 2) addressing problems such as the curl going on with AMXXL.

Something peculiar is going on with the AMXXL that's not affecting your other plants. She's going into flower, so that may imply lack of P & K (at least P & K, but perhaps others).

OR... maybe for some reason AMXXL has a root zone problem affecting the absorption of water. Perhaps there's not enough oxygen in the root zone. Perhaps there's a root pathogen.

...But alas, I am not a SIPper... best to ask the experts.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I'll catch up with you mañana and have a good meeting! 9:40pm here... gonna watch a show and hit the hay. I just posted some pics of my plants.

 

[CBDMed]

I'll catch up with you mañana and have a good meeting! 9:40pm here... gonna watch a show and hit the hay. I just posted some pics of my plants.

They look great!
I am glad you are finding out what strains are truly mold resistant.

 

[CBDMed]

Ok, it is the next morning, I am flying by the grow room quickly. At least she does not look too much worse!

Just as a question, if you feed too much CalMag, can it lock out P and K? (I do not think I did, it's just a question.)

 

[Azimuth]

This evening I saw that the tips on Afghan Mass XXL are curling in a not-good looking way. These are indicative. The tallest ones are the worst, if that means anything.

Let's rule in/out the easy, most obvious possibility, environment. Leaves can start looking like that due to either light or heat stress, mostly heat stress for me.

Has it been unusually hot and/or humid in your area in the past few days?

They have some weird diseases here.

This is also another possibility. Some strains are more resistant to a particular disease as @cbdhemp808 is showing us, but I would expect more than one plant to present with those issues if it was a virus or bacteria or something, even if not as obvious on some plants. I'd focus elsewhere to start.

my first guess is too much water and roots can't breath. I bet @Azimuth knows.

I don't think that's it as it seemed to happen overnight and the SIP structure seems to prevent most root issues, probably because of the oxygen pocket down low. I have yet to see anyone post significant root issues (slimy, root rot, etc) in a SIP. Doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but it would be outside the data set I've seen so far.

If it were SIP related I'd expect it to develop gradually over time rather than overnight.

The affected one is Afghan Mass XXL Auto.

I don't grow autos but from what I've seen they seem to grow like photoperiods except for the timing of things. Could just be especially susceptible or sensitive to something in your environment, but again I'd look elsewhere for more common issues first.

One Peyote WiFi CBD looks very strong, and the other is not drinking, and looks kind of limpy.

Could be a general environmental issue. Has it been quite humid where you are lately? High humidity changes the way plants process water (kind of like when you put a cutting under a humidity dome so it can get water through its leaves since it no longer has roots to drink from).

This will be a general issue affecting most of the plants I your grow, but maybe to different extents.

Well I told the guy that I wanted all natural and biodegradable. He said this was the big gun.
I got this because I was researching it, and on the website they showed some picture that looked exactly like when my crop turned brown a few crops ago. So it may not have been the salt at all. It may have been a virus, or some kind of bacteria. So I thought I should get it.
The only thing is that it says "all natural" "biodegradable" and "organic", but then it says not to get it on you, just for GP's!

Stuff like this, especially if it's reputation is as a "big gun", should only be used in my opinion for a particular issue that has been clearly identified and its combination of ingredients is what's needed.

I'm all for experimenting but you're just going into this blind. You don't know what your issue is and don't know what's in the product or what it's supposed to do.

Not a good combination.

I have been supplementing the nitrogen with urine because I think there's not enough nitrogen in the super soil during the heavy growth phase, but that's not new. And that is every plant that is underway, not jist AMXXL auto.

Have you eaten or drunk anything different recently that could change either the make up of pH or your urine? Do you use it exactly the same way each time (amount, dilution rate, application process, etc.).

Once again though, if you give it to all of your plants I'd expect a urine issue would show on most of your plants.

OK, I drained about a half gallon out of the tank, mixed it with the required amount of the Bioxinis organic fertilizer, and we will see what that does. It claims to be some mineral, although it does not tell you what it is (which makes me suspicious).

Minerals in an organic grow can take quite a while to become available to your plants, like weeks and months unless it is presented in a readily available format.

That might be a good long term input but I wouldn't expect near term results. Plus, if you followed the Supercool recipe, you're messing with the carefully developed balance of inputs and more of some good thing can lock out other things and give you weird outcomes.

Once again I'm back to trying to clearly identify the problem before you throw random stuff at it. That can start a chain of events that spiral out of control .

If you did follow the recipe I would trust it to be balanced in what each input brings to the whole, and adding more of anything, including banana tea, can upset that balance.

Oh, I do add the high dose of Azi's banana EWC anaerobic tea. I forget of that is P or K.

Both, but mostly K from what I've seen.

Was the high dose coincident with the problem showing up?

I am just imagining that hydrogen peroxide is going to be very hard on a plant.

And really bad for an organic grow since it's used as an anti-microbial and will kill off the life in your soil.

 

[CBDMed]

Let's rule in/out the easy, most obvious possibility, environment. Leaves can start looking like that due to either light or heat stress, mostly heat stress for me.

Has it been unusually hot and/or humid in your area in the past few days?

Great question. Actually it was a few degrees COLD here this weekend.

This is also another possibility. Some strains are more resistant to a particular disease as @cbdhemp808 is showing us, but I would expect more than one plant to present with those issues if it was a virus or bacteria or something, even if not as obvious on some plants. I'd focus elsewhere to start.

Right.
And the two leaning colas on Charlotte's Angel are now standing upright (which is good news, but does not clarify the Afghani girl's problem.

I don't think that's it as it seemed to happen overnight and the SIP structure seems to prevent most root issues, probably because of the oxygen pocket down low. I have yet to see anyone post significant root issues (slimy, root rot, etc) in a SIP. Doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but it would be outside the data set I've seen so far.

If it were SIP related I'd expect it to develop gradually over time rather than overnight.


I don't grow autos but from what I've seen they seem to grow like photoperiods except for the timing of things. Could just be especially susceptible or sensitive to something in your environment, but again I'd look elsewhere for more common issues first.


Could be a general environmental issue. Has it been quite humid where you are lately? High humidity changes the way plants process water (kind of like when you put a cutting under a humidity dome so it can get water through its leaves since it no longer has roots to drink from).

It is very humid here now.
This is the humid season (summer in the USA) which is actually COLDER and WETTER than the rest of the year.
(I think the jet stream flips or something in summer.)

This will be a general issue affecting most of the plants I your grow, but maybe to different extents.

RIght, but everyone else seems to be doing good, except for the second Peyote WiFi CBD 2:1 (which I plucked last night).

Stuff like this, especially if it's reputation is as a "big gun", should only be used in my opinion for a particular issue that has been clearly identified and its combination of ingredients is what's needed.

Agree.
I was glad that she did NOT look any worse this morning!
The salesman advised adding Avisana (trichoderma) to the soil, but it is too late for that at this point.
Any new seeds, I can mix Avisana into the soil, but for the existing plants, it kind of is what it is at this point.

I'm all for experimenting but you're just going into this blind. You don't know what your issue is and don't know what's in the product or what it's supposed to do.

Not a good combination.

I am hoping to contact USA manufacturers tomorrow, to find out what the deal is.

Have you eaten or drunk anything different recently that could change either the make up of pH or your urine? Do you use it exactly the same way each time (amount, dilution rate, application process, etc.).

Good questions. Overall my diet has been fairly stable.
I take a multivitamin and some herb supplements, and pee into a watering can, which I use to dispense about 1/8th urine with 7/8ths water, if they are in stretch or vegging hard.
I thought I did it pretty much the same.
CalMag, BTi water, urine, banana/ewc tea and Recharge over the top.
Tube water is CalMag, BTi water, and urine (no banana tea, no recharge).
The ONLY thing that comes to mind is maybe I went a little heavy on the Calmag (i.e., 3 teaspoons instead of 2).
Could 3 tsp of Calmag (instead of the recommended 2) lock out P and K after a few feedings??

Once again though, if you give it to all of your plants I'd expect a urine issue would show on most of your plants.

Yes, it is pretty much standard.
Topwater every 2-3 days, let it settle, and then fill the tube water the following day.
Maybe being a little heavy on the Calmag is the only thing I can think of, but it has not been THAT many feedings of Calmag...

Minerals in an organic grow can take quite a while to become available to your plants, like weeks and months unless it is presented in a readily available format.

That is why I was thinking about the Calmag.
@cbdhemp808 said he does not use CalMag, because he has other components in the soil.
I pretty much followed Subcool to the letter on this grow, except I added a little (not much) kelp, and I also used biochar (although I am going to discontinue that after this grow because I am recharging the soil and I do not think charcoal helps that much, just to have it in the soil after it is already spent).

That might be a good long term input but I wouldn't expect near term results. Plus, if you followed the Supercool recipe, you're messing with the carefully developed balance of inputs and more of some good thing can lock out other things and give you weird outcomes.

Right. And even if you do everything 100% correctly you can STILL have problems...

Once again I'm back to trying to clearly identify the problem before you throw random stuff at it. That can start a chain of events that spiral out of control .

Right.
Thanks.

If you did follow the recipe I would trust it to be balanced in what each input brings to the whole, and adding more of anything, including banana tea, can upset that balance.

Oy. I always add it....
This is not the first time I added it...

Both, but mostly K from what I've seen.

Was the high dose coincident with the problem showing up?

Uff.
I cannot remember exactly but I think you said something like 1:68 was a normal feeding, and 1:34 was the high level concentration (and not to exceed that).
But I always add 1:34 once they start to throw pistils, because I want them to have enough (and I like the idea of free nutes, and other flavors, because I think it enhances the bouquet). Is that the wrong attitude / approach?

Shed will probably scold me, "You cannot force feed a plant!"
I was just thinking to add banana tea for the extra flavor / type of input.
I am using the standard dose I always use. This is not a new jar, either...

And really bad for an organic grow since it's used as an anti-microbial and will kill off the life in your soil.

Yeah, I would rather NOT use it!!
I figure if I DO have to use it, I will have to drench with Orca Liquid Myco and Recharge just to undo most of the damage done--but when they showed a photo of how it kills the stuff that turns your whole grow brown, I was sold.
I wish I could find the photo again.
They also said it kills mold, bud rot, etc. They recommend a 1% spray weekly IF you have problems.
(In the future I would probably make my own with hydrogen peroxide and vinegar). Haha, it probably makes a pretty good budwash?? Lol.
I hope I do not have to use it!

 

[CBDMed]

I have another (unrelated) question.
Regarding popping beans, is Roots Organic soil going to be "too hot"?
Meaning, would I do well to cut it 50-50 with some planting mix, so that there is LESS nutrition available to the seed?
Or is that not really necessary, seeing as it is organic soil?
(I am asking because my bean pop rate is usually 90+%, and lately it has been around 50%, with a 12 hour soak and NO other changes.)

 

[Azimuth]

The ONLY thing that comes to mind is maybe I went a little heavy on the Calmag (i.e., 3 teaspoons instead of 2).

Calcium brings several things to the table in an organic grow. First off, it is a nutrient that plants need to grow, but it and your biochar also play a role in the tilth of your soil because if their cation exchange capacity affect.

Think of it like adding an electrical charge to the soil that helps particles attract and repel each other leading to a more fluffed up soil. But too much electrical juice can fry your plants, and maybe that one plant is either just more susceptible or was at a critical point in the grow to be more affected than the others.

This is definitely on the suspect list.

I also used biochar (although I am going to discontinue that after this grow because I am recharging the soil and I do not think charcoal helps that much, just to have it in the soil after it is already spent).

I think of biochar kind of like corral reefs in the otherwise desert of an ocean, in that it attracts life. The multitude of nooks and crevasses are home to billions of microbes that in turn drive other processes. It can really hold onto water so too much can overwet your soil, but it can work great in a dry climate or during periods of drought.

It doesn't "get spent" and can remain in the soil for thousands of years as seen in the Terra Preta soils of the Amazon down your way.

I cannot remember exactly but I think you said something like 1:68 was a normal feeding, and 1:34 was the high level concentration (and not to exceed that).
But I always add 1:34 once they start to throw pistils, because I want them to have enough (and I like the idea of free nutes, and other flavors, because I think it enhances the bouquet). Is that the wrong attitude / approach?

1:10 up to 1:100 are the typical dilution rates, and I typically use 1:30. Those extracts do get more potent as they age so that's something to keep in mind.

I pretty much followed Subcool to the letter on this grow, except I added a little (not much) kelp, and I also used biochar

Ok, so  not Subcool to the letter. Kelp will boost K, and your extra banana extract will also boost K. Have a look at the Mulder chart in my signature for the relationship between the various nutrients.

Have you tried an actual Subcool to the letter grow and did you have K deficiencies that have you adding more or are you just monkeying around trying trying different things for fun?

I'd only use other inputs if the soil wasn't getting it done for you because of imbalance or your pots aren't big enough to sustain the entire grow. Subcool's mix is supposed to be a water-only substrate so any deviations you make send you down your own unique path.

 

[cbdhemp808]

RE: Ox Virin

Ok, thanks! Why do you say that?
I found some composition ingredients hidden in plain sight.
Google translate says it best. Hydrogen peroxide, peracetic acid, and acetic acid (vinegar??)
So, what?? Is this like hydrogen peroxide and vinegar for like $35 a gallon??? (And probably not even apple cider vinegar???)

Because with living soil you wouldn't want to add anything that's going to kill bacteria or beneficial fungi including mycorrhyzae. Now, maybe you could use this stuff as a foliar spray, if such a spray was called for; however, I don't like this combination of alkaline and acid ingredients, and unspecified excipients. I have used 3% drugstore peroxide in a specific concentration with water, with some success, but only as a foliar spray. So, I'm saying keep it simple. And yeah, a bottle of peroxide is very cheap.

What's happening with your leaves there doesn't look like bug or pathogen directly affecting the leaves, so a foliar spray wouldn't be indicated. If this isn't heat related, then it could be a root zone pathogen that's gone systemic, and I've seen plants suddenly go bad overnight in that situation. Sometimes it's just sudden death. Sometimes you can recover, as I did with my HI-BISCUS clone mom, and she survived enough so I could take some cuttings, and THIS ONE is one of her babies.

If you've got a pathogen in the root zone, then I recommend a product like Mikrobs Microbial Superpack, with trichoderma beneficial fungi. It comes in a powder—mix 1 tsp. in 1 gal. of pure water (no chlorine!). Then just water it into your soil. Your plant may recover enough to get a harvest. If not, it was worth a try.

As for viruses, it's possible that what you are seeing in the top leaves could be due to Hop Latent Viroid (HLVd), but I don't have any direct experience with that. Or perhaps it could be some other virus. It's definitely not a mosaic virus, which mimics variegation. But my understanding is that dealing with a possible virus isn't a matter of trying to treat the plant, but rather removing the infected plant from the grow immediately and destroying it.

This one is subcool's original super soil. Please let me know if you want me to list the ingredients again.
I think you have to supplement nitrogen when she's growing up, but subcool's is supposed to have all of everything included. (I used it before and it worked good. I filled the half of a 5 gallon or a 7 gallon cloth pot and grew nice big five or 6 foot bushes without even knowing what I was doing.)

Yeah, that affected Afghan Auto is a rather small plant, so it would seem to have enough nutes with the soil alone.

Are you saying that it looks to you like she suddenly developed a lack of P & K?
Hmmm... She's just barely getting started flowering. I have a hard time imagining that she has tapped much of the P or K yet. Maybe the roots tapped K??
I have lots of liquid PK if that is what is required, but I am not convinced.
Oh, I do add the high dose of Azi's banana EWC anaerobic tea. I forget of that is P or K.

Even with super soil, by the time a plant is developing buds, you may need to add P & K, as well as some N, but less N than in veg. It depends on pot size and the size of the plant.

In my grow, I also use a custom super soil. I'm growing big plants in 10 gal pots, and in mid to late veg I start supplementing with the infamous no-cost high-N liquid fert. The plants love it and do great. In flower, I also start adding solution-grade Langbeinite (K, Mg, S). I also use seabird guano (P) in the solution, although it's not solution-grade. So far it's working well. I have also experimented with solution-grade fish bone powder which is really high in P, and I might try using that some more for dialing-in the monster colas.

 

[CBDMed]

Thanks, Azi.

Calcium brings several things to the table in an organic grow. First off, it is a nutrient that plants need to grow, but it and your biochar also play a role in the tilth of your soil because if their cation exchange capacity affect.

Think of it like adding an electrical charge to the soil that helps particles attract and repel each other leading to a more fluffed up soil. But too much electrical juice can fry your plants, and maybe that one plant is either just more susceptible or was at a critical point in the grow to be more affected than the others.

This is definitely on the suspect list.

Ok, I tried to add about 7-8% biochar (eyeballing it). Probably it was about that.

I think of biochar kind of like corral reefs in the otherwise desert of an ocean, in that it attracts life. The multitude of nooks and crevasses are home to billions of microbes that in turn drive other processes. It can really hold onto water so too much can overwet your soil, but it can work great in a dry climate or during periods of drought.
It doesn't "get spent" and can remain in the soil for thousands of years as seen in the Terra Preta soils of the Amazon down your way.

HUH?!?!?!
You mean, you charge it once, and then it is cool forever just by virtue of the fact that it is EWC-impregnated charcoal???? (I guess I should keep using it, then!)

1:10 up to 1:100 are the typical dilution rates, and I typically use 1:30. Those extracts do get more potent as they age so that's something to keep in mind.

Ahh, good point.
But I put the same stuff on the Delicious Cheese and the Charlotte's Angels, and they seem to be doing well (and the colas are standing upright today).

Ok, so  not Subcool to the letter. Kelp will boost K, and your extra banana extract will also boost K. Have a look at the Mulder chart in my signature for the relationship between the various nutrients.

Well...are those my only possible options?
No, you are correct, it is not Subcool to the letter with ANY of the biochar, or the DynoMyco, or the kelp, or the banana tea, or the Recharge, or the supplemental N, or the extra rock dust.
He gives a range of 3G to 6G of EWC, and I always go for the 6.
And just to be technical, it is ALSO not his thing to pack a SIP 100% full with supersoil (minus a cup worth of regular soil) because he recommends filling a 5G or 7G cloth pot about 1/2 way with supersoil, and then regular soil on top of that).
And he has updated (altered) the formula in the meantime.
I have seen the Mulder chart but have not studied it. I get the idea that a balance is the ideal. I will try to check it later but internet is down right now.

Have you tried an actual Subcool to the letter grow and did you have K deficiencies that have you adding more or are you just monkeying around trying trying different things for fun?

The two SIPs of Blueberry Crystal on the roof were this same batch of soil, and they were growing SUPER! They had deep blue, red, and purple tinges, and the smell and the flavors were great!! (I was sad to have to cut that grow short!) And it kicked like a mule. (I think he is into sativa CBD hazes). I put it all into the cob, and cannot wait! (But wait I must, another two months.) I liked that plant so much I hope to research blueberry CBD hazes after I exhaust all of the seeds here (which may take a while).
The routine for the two Blueberry Crystal plants was exactly the same as those two that cut short on the roof. Same batch of supersoil, same EWC, same 8% biochar, same 1/8th strength urine, same banana, same Recharge, same everything.
And I can hear that you think of it as "monkeying around", but with respect, I am trying to educate myself. (Autistic monkey at the controls trying to learn, maybe??? I would have a hard time not copping to that... hahaha. )

With respect, I have been very clear that I want to adapt the supersoil over time, to incorporate things we can grow ourselves on our property. That will mean departing from Supercool subsoil. I have been very plain about that.
For full disclosure, I am also planning to learn to recondition supercool subsoil, which Subcool does not do.
Maybe I will have to go back and check on Subcool's forum, because SC says that while he does not recondition, many people do. And there seems to be a general consensus that there is quite a bit of latitude in the formula (especially with regards to strength, but some with regards to ingredients, because there are a zillion formulas out there, and on that forum).
I was really hoping to find someone experienced with supersoil in SIPs here, because frankly, it sounds corny to say it, but if there is a nicer forum (with nicer people) than 420, I have not found it! But if the Supersoil people are all rolling it up, then I guess I sould go ask them there???

The people who were rolling it up seemed to believe that as long as you give the supercool subsoil a really good ferment (like 3+ months), then you can mix it very strong, and the plants will be happy. And there were a zillion recipes.
One challenge I will have in rconditioning the supersoil is that it comes with lots of nutes in the bag, and SC factors these into his formula. So in reconditioning the supersoil, I will necessarily have to try to recreate those nutes, one way or another, or else I will have to buy a new $35 USD 10G bag of imported Roots Organic soil each time, which does not seem to make as much sense as buying the nutes to recondition it. But I cannot guarantee that I will mimic the Roots formula exactly. (By goal is not to recreate SC exactly--my goal is to grow organic meds.)

The consensus of supercool subsoil rollers seems to be that the "ideal" is to run the plant until you have to topdress, to completely exhaust the soil. (CBDhemp said something similar.) And then you have to replace those "flavorings" or else it is not really like SC Supersoil. My goal is to replace with what I can find locally.
When Internet comes back on I will probably have to read into Mulder. I signed up for that thread. Thanks for sending it.

I'd only use other inputs if the soil wasn't getting it done for you because of imbalance or your pots aren't big enough to sustain the entire grow. Subcool's mix is supposed to be a water-only substrate so any deviations you make send you down your own unique path.

Ok. Thanks. I understand that. This soil worked great for the Blueberry Crystal, so I am hoping it will work great again.
I will probably have to go roll it up a lot, to find out the answers to the burning questions that supercool subsoil users want to know...
I think hypothetically according to SC you are not supposed to need to put a 1" EWC layer on top of your SIP (probably because you went with the 6G EWC max, AND you are using EWC biochar) but I did it anyway.
I know that it is SUPPOSED to be a water-only substrate, but other SS users comment that you have to add some supplemental N to start with, because you need more of that during veg and stretch.
Roots Organics recommends starting to add some bloom nutes BEFORE you go into bloom, so they can be mobilized propertly by the plant.
There are a great many things I do not know yet, and probably will never know. But I know that all of the other girls in the grow room are sitting in the exact same soil, with the exact same nutes and waters, and they all look great, except for the one I just plucked.

I know I am not having great success with autos right now, so I wish I had planted more photos! But this will be a good grow. Charlotte's Angel and Dr. Seedsman 30:1 are supposed to both be sativas, which will be a nice change for earlier in the day. (Everything was bought from a sponsor.)

 

[cbdhemp808]

Charlotte's Angel and Dr. Seedsman 30:1 are supposed to both be sativas

I'm curious to see how your Dr. Seedsman turns out. My pheno looked like a sativa, had sativa effects, and tested out around 12% CBD. I think I noticed that your seedling looks more like an indica, so perhaps a different pheno. My pheno suffered from a lot of PM.

 

[Azimuth]

But I know that all of the other girls in the grow room are sitting in the exact same soil, with the exact same nutes and waters, and they all look great, except for the one I just plucked.

Could just be something strain related then and each has its peculiarities. Do you have another of that same strain now or in the past you ran with success?

 

[CBDMed]

RE: Ox Virin

Because with living soil you wouldn't want to add anything that's going to kill bacteria or beneficial fungi including mycorrhyzae. Now, maybe you could use this stuff as a foliar spray, if such a spray was called for; however, I don't like this combination of alkaline and acid ingredients, and unspecified excipients. I have used 3% drugstore peroxide in a specific concentration with water, with some success, but only as a foliar spray. So, I'm saying keep it simple. And yeah, a bottle of peroxide is very cheap.

Yeah, so they got me on this one, because I did not know. But now I will know.
Yes, I would think about it as a foliar.
I ordered some disposable latex gloves, even though now that I know what it is (hydrogen peroxide and vinegar) I would try to keep it off of my skin, but no worries if I got a little on it.

What's happening with your leaves there doesn't look like bug or pathogen directly affecting the leaves, so a foliar spray wouldn't be indicated. If this isn't heat related, then it could be a root zone pathogen that's gone systemic, and I've seen plants suddenly go bad overnight in that situation. Sometimes it's just sudden death. Sometimes you can recover, as I did with my HI-BISCUS clone mom, and she survived enough so I could take some cuttings, and THIS ONE is one of her babies.

Nice looking plants!

If you've got a pathogen in the root zone, then I recommend a product like Mikrobs Microbial Superpack, with trichoderma beneficial fungi. It comes in a powder—mix 1 tsp. in 1 gal. of pure water (no chlorine!). Then just water it into your soil. Your plant may recover enough to get a harvest. If not, it was worth a try.

Thanks!
Only, I used to be able to buy Mikrobs from the River, but they do not ship it to Colombia anymore. (There is a lot of stuff they do not ship to Colombia anymore, so I have to make do and be glad I can get as much as I can!
However, they DID have pro trichoderma (with multiple strains) that they WOULD ship, so I bought three, because it looks like tricho is going to be a "necessary addition" for me here.
I like this one because it has two different strains of trico.

Then I investigated, and realized that dude's salesman already sold me some limited topdress trichoderma (with one strain, and maybe half of the same ingredients) in their Avisana formula. Here are the ingredients, I do not know at what strength (but I would guess agricultural quality, whatever that means). You apply it as a top-dress once a month and then water in. (So I should spread it, drain water from the tanks, and water it in.)

Contains: Trichoderma harzianum, Beauveria bassiana, Bacillus thurigiensis, Metarhizium anisopliae, Paecilomyces sp., Gliocladium sp., Verticillium sp.

As for viruses, it's possible that what you are seeing in the top leaves could be due to Hop Latent Viroid (HLVd), but I don't have any direct experience with that. Or perhaps it could be some other virus. It's definitely not a mosaic virus, which mimics variegation. But my understanding is that dealing with a possible virus isn't a matter of trying to treat the plant, but rather removing the infected plant from the grow immediately and destroying it.

Yeah, maybe.
I am just realizing what it is about that sad little plant that I plucked a few days ago. I think I trimmed it, trying to see if I could "shock" it out of its do-nothing-not state, not drinking, looking wilty.
And then maybe -- OUCH!! -- maybe I trimmed Afghan next, and whatever sickness the sad little Peyoti WiFi CBD had, it got spread to Afghani that way?

I watched two videos about it and decided to remove and chop. SAD!!
I do not know if that was it, but if the possibility exists of contaminating the whole garden, then as much as I will miss the little Afghan girl, she has to go.
Oy...
I already planted an 11 Roses (Applachian Kush x SBR) auto seed in the sad girl's container, but if the virus lives in the soil, that will not be good, so I fished the seed out, rinsed it in dilute Ox-Virin, and then put it in a peat starter, and put a dilute solution of Orca Liquid Myco over it. I do not know if she will survive that, but I do not want contaminated soil in the grow room (no no no!!)
So...how does one sanitize possibly infected soil?? (Is that what the Ox-Virin is for?) And then impregnate the soil with Myco and Trico at the time of cooking and also planting and transplanting?

Anyway, she is chopped and outside to recycle/decompose. Now I have to figure out how to sanitize the soil from both SIPs. I am hoping I did not accidentally contaminate any more plants, but the last bud to be trimmed did not look so affected, and Charlotte's four angels seem to be doing well.

I will have to take much more care with the snippers, especially when handling sick plants. Hard lesson! I was already salivating over Afghani girl (and now she is gone, and I must sanitize her soil).
I need to find out how they say to sanitize the soil.

They say that even seeds can carry it in. That is a real bummer, but I do not know for sure that it was that virus. But it just seemed like the safe thing to do was to pluck that weak plant IN CASE it was a sickness, and sad for me I must not have cleaned the trimmers well enough, and I took Afghani girl down

I wish I had had more photos come up, but they did not, I am not sure why. I am having an issue with sprouting lately (and normally I do ok with sprouting).
I do not think it came in on the seed, because the seeds all came together, and the other Peyote Wifi CBD 2:1 looks very strong and good. And they came in the same plastic bag.
The videos say right now there is no cure, but to remove and chop. I still do not know about soil remediation, or if Ox-Virin is worth a try.

Yeah, that affected Afghan Auto is a rather small plant, so it would seem to have enough nutes with the soil alone.

Yeah, probably the banana EWC tea is not necessary.
Except then you say it is??? So I am not sure how to win.

Even with super soil, by the time a plant is developing buds, you may need to add P & K, as well as some N, but less N than in veg. It depends on pot size and the size of the plant.

Like you said, she is relatively small, as compared to a photo. So if the supersoil would seem to have enough nutes with the soil alone, then why would I need to add P & K? I feel trapped.

In my grow, I also use a custom super soil. I'm growing big plants in 10 gal pots, and in mid to late veg I start supplementing with the infamous no-cost high-N liquid fert. The plants love it and do great. In flower, I also start adding solution-grade Langbeinite (K, Mg, S). I also use seabird guano (P) in the solution, although it's not solution-grade. So far it's working well. I have also experimented with solution-grade fish bone powder which is really high in P, and I might try using that some more for dialing-in the monster colas.

I probably need to subscribe to your supersoil thread, if I have not already.
I probably need to spread the Avisana tomorrow.
I think not tonight. Tonight I need to sleep.
Thanks again.

 

[CBDMed]

I'm curious to see how your Dr. Seedsman turns out. My pheno looked like a sativa, had sativa effects, and tested out around 12% CBD. I think I noticed that your seedling looks more like an indica, so perhaps a different pheno. My pheno suffered from a lot of PM.

Me, too. I am wondering if it is small. (After this latest virus revelation, I am wondering if she has stunting...)
I wish I had planted more photos, but I was not sure how many I could fit (now with poles I know I can fit a lot more).

I probably need to spread the Avisana trico tomorrow and water in for the survivors, but not tonight. Tonight we got the poor Afghani removed, and so hopefully no more sickness in the grow room.
Does anyone have any recommendations on how I can remediate this soil?
I am sorry, I do NOT have an oven (I wish I did).
Worst comes to worst it costs me a $35 for a 10G bag of soil, and start over. That would be better than infecting any more girls! But if there is a way to save this soil, it would be good to know it.

 

[CBDMed]

Could just be something strain related then and each has its peculiarities. Do you have another of that same strain now or in the past you ran with success?

Thanks for asking, Azi.
Big sigh. Yes, I grew four of those AMXXLA successfully a couple of grows ago. They got nice and big (bigger than the one I just chopped), and 3% CBD sativa, and it had good terpenes. Only, it turned brown. We thought it was salt, and rice hulls, but it turns out it was a virus that infected the grow from outide.
The Delicious Cheese only turned partly brown, but it turned everything else brown (Northern Light CBD Auto, Afghan Mass XXL, and I forget what else). I think they are saying that Ox-Virin can cure that, but if it is that virus then it would necessarily have to be a root drench, because it lives in the roots.

I rememeber the virus spread slowly on each plant. I am just guessing that they will advise me to try the Ox-Virin to cure the plant, but I do not know that. I will talk with them about it. (Hahaha, maybe I am paying $5 for peroxide and vinegar, and $25 for a consult?? Hahaha!) Maybe they will say that we *could* have saved the plant, but this was a holiday weekend, so I do not expect to hear back from them until late morning tomorrow, and I wanted to get any potential contaminator out of my grow room (and I do not have time to set up an alternate room right now).
The immediate problem is removed and gone.
Tomorrow I can find out if Ox-Virin can remediate the soil, or not.

Haha, I was really looking forward to getting green bud with those terpenes!
Next grow I want to start a lot more photos, and look to see if there are any stronger or more sativa Dr. Seedsman 30:1 phenos.
I guess basically I need to crack a lot of seeds, to find the phenos I like best

 

[CBDMed]

PS, if they DO say to use Ox-Virin (Peroxide and vinegar) for soil remediation, I can reload with myco and trico for the cooking process.
I am considering adding some myco to all existing supersoil storage, and turn it in. I am not sure how trico works, but I would think if myco lives in the soil, trico might also live in the soil, and it would be good to get it in there during the cook, since it is beneficial? (And that way, nothing bad can get in there, since it is already populated by beneficial bacteria?)
Or is my thinking off?

 

[CBDMed]

Ok I talked with Dude's salesman here. He says it looks like micro mite damage to him.
He believes that the use of the cutters on the small infected plant transferred the mites to the bigger plant.
He recommends removing and destroying all infected plants, and throwing the soil away.

I asked him what to do. He recommends a preventive spray of garlic and cayenne, and the Bioxinis (and the Avisana Tricoderma topdress).
I have a little of the garlic and cayenne. I will try to apply everything when I water this afternoon.

 

[bluter]

was worried it was russets. you don't want that spreading. it's kind of a scorched earth policy to be rid of them.

 

[CBDMed]

Wow, thank you for telling me!

was worried it was russets. you don't want that spreading. it's kind of a scorched earth policy to be rid of them.

Oy va voi. I looked them up, and yes, Russets sound bad.
They recommend various things, including sulfur and other predatory mites.

For big operations I guess you can get a sulfur burner, but for a small grow room they recommend spraying with micronized sulfur, so I ordered 5kg.
Do I add that to the neem / Dr. Bronner's spray during veg, to get it all over the plant, and on the soil?

I will try to hit everything that is not in flower with neem again, and then hit everything that IS in flower with Br. Bronner's.
ANd if I can find that garlic and cayenne spray I will probably put it on the plants that were nearest (just because).

And just to say it, I am not sure I want to add garlic and cayenne to my regular sprays...
If I do, can I just get some garlic and cayenne oil off the internet? Because Dud's representative sells everything in pre-mixed liquid form (which is great to use, but kinda pricey to buy everything pre-mixed...)

I would appreciate hearing any recommendations or advice.