SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco Results In A Soil Based Medium

StoneOtter said:
Depends what pot and soil you're using I think. Trial and error may be the way to go. My LOS and no top water seems to work seamlessly, but if I top water at all the grow goes to hell and I have to fix things. Others have different experiences. For me it's solo to SIP bottom water only for the smoothest runs.
Not so much for many others with different setups. There is a lag in growth to start but I accept that.
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I appreciate the feedback. I have about 100 days to think over a couple different approaches so I'm sure I can get creative.
 
Fenderbender said:
Aha.. interesting.. only obtaining it here seems a hassle, only via Amazon.uk, I still have to order anything from Amazon at all as I always search for a real smaller shop to buy at and support.
And ordering through UK means extra costs since Brexit.
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That's weird, there's an EU flag on the back of my bag, and a Europe section to their website.
 
AKZ said:
Is there a better way to start from seed in the SIP bucket, and then initiate wicking?
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I have a few pics in my New Journal, link in my signature!

A DIY Multi site SIP, made with a 10 gallon tote, clear Dixie cups and microfiber wicks.

I use tuface as a medium, but it should work with soil. I set mine up for 11 sites, but you could do more or less. Or just look around the house for something with a lid that can hold water and tear up an old sock! 😉
 
Melville Hobbes said:
That's weird, there's an EU flag on the back of my bag, and a Europe section to their website.
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Yeah you can order in Europe but through Amazon UK I think, their messaging on the site is a bit unclear though
*new updated formula now shipping January 2023 UK Only. Due to Brexit Export Restrictions, we cannot currently send orders outside of UK. Outside UK/EU shipping available from Amazon.co.uk here will ship from UK*"
 
AKZ said:
I appreciate the feedback. I have about 100 days to think over a couple different approaches so I'm sure I can get creative.
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Would some additional air movement across the surface of your media help? I run SIP’s from seed to harvest in their final home, top water until they hit the reservoir and have not had anything algae or anything like that pop up.
 
AKZ said:
I appreciate the feedback. I have about 100 days to think over a couple different approaches so I'm sure I can get creative.
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Keep talking with folks and see how you feel about things.
 
Ke0ncp said:
Would some additional air movement across the surface of your media help? I run SIP’s from seed to harvest in their final home, top water until they hit the reservoir and have not had anything algae or anything like that pop up.
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I have two oscillating fans passing over the tops of the buckets, so I think I'm covered on that front.

When you start your seeds do you saturate the medium prior to planting?
 
AKZ said:
When you start your seeds do you saturate the medium prior to planting?
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I don't. I treat it like a normal pot and keep just a small ring of the medium moist around the seedling, but too much water too early stunts it a bit. With a photo that doesn't matter so much, but it does with autos.
 
AKZ said:
I have two oscillating fans passing over the tops of the buckets, so I think I'm covered on that front.

When you start your seeds do you saturate the medium prior to planting?
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I do but I’m using HP ProMix. So I charge it for 24 hours while the seed takes a bath :)
 
Azimuth said:
I don't. I treat it like a normal pot and keep just a small ring of the medium moist around the seedling, but too much water too early stunts it a bit. With a photo that doesn't matter so much, but it does with autos.
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Where I put the seedling I do make a small 284 style lasagna with perlite and soil alternating. This ensures enough air & slows down the wicking creating a little pot with a lesser moisture grading within the rest of the pot.
 
Hello All! Next time you see this little lady she’ll be in her final home it was really hot yesterday she was droopy but a bottom feeding of myco water got her back
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Azimuth said:
*** DIY SIP Designs ***

For those interested in building their own SIP to experiment with I thought I'd offer some simple design options. Keep in mind there are several different ways to build these things and I've tried a few and they all seem to produce about the same end result: great plants.

There are a few simple design principles that all of the various designs share, and essentially those are soil above, a water reservoir below and an air gap in between, and typically a fill tube to allow you to by-pass the soil to fill the reservoir. How those things are accomplished is up to the builder. I make the air gap/water reservoir by establishing a void in the bottom of the container that soil is packed densely around which forms the wicking mechanism to kept the rest of the soil in the pot constantly moist, but on a bit of a gradient, wetter at the bottom, less so as you move up the pot. This is similar to what is found in nature since water drops in the soil due to gravity so there is usually more water the deeper you go.

I've built them in various sizes ranging from Solo Cups, to 1L take-out containers, to 2 and 5 Gallon (8 and 20L) buckets and up to 17 gallon (65L) tubs. Here's how I do them:


Solo Cups
This version is a bit of a compromise since creating the void is hard to do with such a small container so it's built a bit differently than the others.

For this size I make a small hole with a soldering iron or drill bit about 1 inch/25mm up the side from the bottom of the cup.

Then I put either small hydroton clay balls or perlite/pumice in the bottom up to a level about 1.75"/45mm and then top with soil. Since the hydroton/perlite layer is higher than the overflow hole, there is a bit of an air gap satisfying the design requirement. There is not as much air as in the other design options, but as I said, this one is a bit of a compromise.

Given the lack of real estate to work with I don't even bother with a fill tube, but rather water by sitting the solo cup in a slightly larger tub of water to fill the reservoir from below through the overflow hole. I usually put a second hole slightly above the overflow hole which seems to assist with filling the reservoir more quickly by allowing a vent for the air being displaced by the increasing water level.

That's it. If you use clear cups you'll be able to see the roots develop but be sure to slide it into an opaque cover cup since the roots won't develop as well if exposed to light.


1L Take-out Container
This is probably the smallest size I would take to flower but is large enough for a respectable harvest (relatively speaking).

For this one you'll need two containers. The first is the 1L container and the second is some sort of small food grade plastice cup/container where the diameter of the rim is slightly smaller than the bottom of the 1L container. I use small single serving applesause containers that fit perfectly. This will make the reservoir void by making a bunch of small holes in it and placing it upside down in the bottom of the 1L container.

I make an overflow hole in the 1L container about 1 inch/25mm up from the bottom but make sure it is at least 1/2"/12mm below the height of the cup that makes up the void to ensure I have an air gap. Up to double that amount is preferable.

Then I make a bunch of small holes in the smaller container (I use a soldering iron) and place it upside down in the 1L container. Put your soil mix in so that it surrounds the inner cup but try to leave a void between it and the overflow hole to help with air flow. I've built this size both with and without a fill tube so that's a preference decision.

Be sure to pack the soil around the inner cup firmly to help with the wicking process, but fill the rest of the container with soil firmed like you would for a normal pot.


2 Gallon/8L or 5 Gallon/20L Buckets
Same basic design as the 1L version, just larger containers. I get my buckets from Lowes in the States because they are a deep, dark blue which helps shade the roots from light better than lighter or white colored ones.

For the container that creates the void I've used food grade plastic food containers like salad bowls or food storage containers as well as pasta strainers. Same rules here, try to find a container where the upper rim is slightly smaller than the lower width of your bucket.

I do use fill tubes for these so first I make a larger hole in the bottom of the inner container (which will be on top when we flip it to install it) that is slightly larger than my fill tube. I use the white PVC plumbing pipe (1/2"/12mm) and make my hole with a 7/8"/22mm hole saw which is the outer diameter of the pipe.

I actually make two holes, one each on opposite sides of this inner container. Then I use two fill tubes with the idea that there will be a better chance at air flow with this set-up than there would be with a single entry to a cave-like void you'd get with a single fill tube. No science to back this, I just feel like it is a better design.

I also like to have my fill tube stop just after entering the void to ensure air flow even when the reservoir is full so I cut off a small stub piece from the fill tube and attach it back with a coupler which holds it up when installed since the coupler is a larger diameter than the pipe and won't fit through my hole. ResDog has his fill tubes bottom out in the reservoir but makes holes all along its length to accomplish the same thing.

Then I make my overflow hole in the outer bucket making sure it is at leat 1"/25mm below the top of my void container for the air gap, and then make a bunch of small holes in the inner container to try to maximize air and water flow from this inner cup into the surrounding soil. I also make holes on the bottom (what will be the top) of the inner cup to get air to the roots once planted.

Then fill the pot with your soil mix and be sure to pack the soil around the inner cup firmly to help with the wicking process, but fill the rest of the container with soil firmed like you would for a normal pot.

I use a funnel I cut from the top of a water bottle to make pouring water into the fill tube a bit easier. I use a plumbing fitting (called a bushing) to attach a 1" coupling to the 1/2"pipe and the neck of the bottle slides into it nicely. I'm right handed so I like to position the fill tube just to the right of my overflow hole. This makes it easier to watch for run-off as I'm filling the reservoir than it would if it were on the oppositie side of the bucket.


17G/20L Plastic Tub
This design is a bit different from the buckets. The tubs I used for my outdoor vegetable garden are rectangular and I use perforated landscaping drainage pipe layed flat to make the reservoir/air gap. I used 3 sections of 4"/100mm pipe that fit perfectly laid side-by-side but 2 sections of 6"/150mm pipe would work just as well and give you a larger reservoir.

I capped the pipes off with the cover that came with my 1L containers to keep soil out of the pipes. I cut the cover slightly so it would snap between the ribs of the drainage pipe. Then I made my overflow hole about 1"/25mm below the top of the pipe.

Next I installed a 1"/25mm fill tube by cutting a hole in one of the pipe sections and then filled around the pipes with my soil mix being sure to pack it well around the pipes to ensure good wicking. The rest of the tub was filled with my mix firmed like I normally do.

-Or- If using cloth pots, you can simply lay them on the soil that covers the pipes. I'd probably put a good inch or two of soil over the pipes to account for any settling, although there shouldn't be much of that if you've packed it well.


*******

So, that's about it. pretty simple but very effective.

ResDog and Emilya use a slightly different design for their tubs and hopefully they'll post their versions to show some options for those wanting to build their own.

And finally, here's another design option which is a video posted originally by @GreenFingaz which shows a common version found on YouTube:

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2 Gallon/8 Liter Netpot SIP

I built a new 2G SIP using a 2 gallon utility bucket and an 8" Netpot to add to my stable of designs from earlier in the thread and wanted to document it here.

It is the easiest SIP I've ever built and involved only one drilled hole for the soil footer, and a bunch of small, melted holes in the footer and support cups.

The 8" Netpot fits a standard 2G utility bucket (the ones with a spout) perfectly, with maybe a half inch air gap all around the inner pot. I drilled a center hole in the Netpot for a smaller cup for the footer and supported the Netpot on four other same sized small cups surrounding the footer cup inside the utility bucket.

That's it. No fill tube and no overflow hole as I'll be using a dip stick to monitor reservoir depth. 1L of water sets the reservoir depth at about 1" below the Netpot so i should get great air exposure all around.

The 8" Netpot holds a little less soil volume than my 2G/8L paint buckets, but I think the extra air exposure that the soil will get should more than compensate for that. I'm chasing higher brix and more air, less wetness seems required so I'm hoping this design will allow the best of two worlds; SIPs and Organics.

Only one way to find out so I'll be trying a round with thus new design and see what I learn.
 
Azimuth said:
2 Gallon/8 Liter Netpot SIP

I built a new 2G SIP using a 2 gallon utility bucket and an 8" Netpot to add to my stable of designs from earlier in the thread and wanted to document it here.

It is the easiest SIP I've ever built and involved only one drilled hole for the soil footer, and a bunch of small, melted holes in the footer and support cups.

The 8" Netpot fits a standard 2G utility bucket (the ones with a spout) perfectly, with maybe a half inch air gap all around the inner pot. I drilled a center hole in the Netpot for a smaller cup for the footer and supported the Netpot on four other same sized small cups surrounding the footer cup inside the utility bucket.

That's it. No fill tube and no overflow hole as I'll be using a dip stick to monitor reservoir depth. 1L of water sets the reservoir depth at about 1" below the Netpot so i should get great air exposure all around.

The 8" Netpot holds a little less soil volume than my 2G/8L paint buckets, but I think the extra air exposure that the soil will get should more than compensate for that. I'm chasing higher brix and more air, less wetness seems required so I'm hoping this design will allow the best of two worlds; SIPs and Organics.

Only one way to find out so I'll be trying a round with thus new design and see what I learn.
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All this wonderful info but no pictures....ever.

:rofl:
 
Oi! :ciao:

Didn‘t post much of my sip grow in this thread, but since you guys inspired me to go down this road i think you deserve some pay back :cheer::420::snowboating:

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07/16/2024
Day 71 - Day 21 (BLOOM)

This is my second indoor grow, so i‘m by far no expert. First on SIP. But as far I‘m sold. :thumb:
(Even though it might not be „true“ SIP, cause they get fed nutes by topwatering once a week)
 
Highya BC,

I top water nutrients from the top, also. The biggest thing about SIPs is the reservoir underneath with a drain hole, and an air space between the reservoir and the medium. Mine are performing very well this year. Next year I need to shield the buckets with cloth to keep the sun off the buckets. They're (the plants) are showing burnt signs. Happy Smokin'
 
BeyondClouds said:
Didn‘t post much of my sip grow in this thread, but since you guys inspired me to go down this road i think you deserve some pay back :cheer::420::snowboating:
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Impressive! Thank you for sharing. :thanks:

BeyondClouds said:
(Even though it might not be „true“ SIP, cause they get fed nutes by topwatering once a week)
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As @Bode said, the SIP is really just a physical pot structure . How you use it is up to you, and nothing says you can't top water periodically. It's just so much easier pouring it down the fill tube, but that doesn't mean it's always the best way.
 
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