SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco Results In A Soil Based Medium

[cbdhemp808]

Greetings SIPers,

I'm looking to build a DIY SIP using 5 gal HDPE bucket (food grade), all HDPE components, and wicking to simulate a GroBucket. I'm open to single-bucket -or- bucket-in-bucket style. The food-grade 5 gal buckets are easy to get, and Home Depot has 1-1/4" HDPE tubes. ACE has a 1 qt HDPE "Multi-Purpose Container" that could be used in place of a black plastic net pot (drill a bunch of holes in it).

I'm open to any design ideas that meet these requirements:

• fairly inexpensive and easy to build
• all HDPE components (#2 plastic)
• reservoir with drain hole
• watering tube
• proper aeration (air space)
• wicking (GroBucket style)

I just posted this over in my thread...

Quest for mold-resistant strains, Hawaii outdoor greenhouse grow

Personally, if I was only looking to get 8 oz. I'd start my plant in a 1 gal pot. Veg about 4 weeks & up pot to a 5 gallon SIP. Give it about 3 days to recover from the up pot & flip to 12/12. No need to veg any longer to get 8 oz. using a SIP. Now that I grow in SIP's I love to grow big ass...

www.420magazine.com

 

[Azimuth]

Greetings SIPers,

I'm looking to build a DIY SIP using 5 gal HDPE bucket (food grade), all HDPE components, and wicking to simulate a GroBucket. I'm open to single-bucket -or- bucket-in-bucket style. The food-grade 5 gal buckets are easy to get, and Home Depot has 1-1/4" HDPE tubes. ACE has a 1 qt HDPE "Multi-Purpose Container" that could be used in place of a black plastic net pot (drill a bunch of holes in it).

I'm open to any design ideas that meet these requirements:

• fairly inexpensive and easy to build
• all HDPE components (#2 plastic)
• reservoir with drain hole
• watering tube
• proper aeration (air space)
• wicking (GroBucket style)

I just posted this over in my thread...

Quest for mold-resistant strains, Hawaii outdoor greenhouse grow

Personally, if I was only looking to get 8 oz. I'd start my plant in a 1 gal pot. Veg about 4 weeks & up pot to a 5 gallon SIP. Give it about 3 days to recover from the up pot & flip to 12/12. No need to veg any longer to get 8 oz. using a SIP. Now that I grow in SIP's I love to grow big ass...

www.420magazine.com

*** DIY SIP Designs ***

For those interested in building their own SIP to experiment with I thought I'd offer some simple design options. Keep in mind there are several different ways to build these things and I've tried a few and they all seem to produce about the same end result: great plants.

There are a few simple design principles that all of the various designs share, and essentially those are soil above, a water reservoir below and an air gap in between, and typically a fill tube to allow you to by-pass the soil to fill the reservoir. How those things are accomplished is up to the builder. I make the air gap/water reservoir by establishing a void in the bottom of the container that soil is packed densely around which forms the wicking mechanism to kept the rest of the soil in the pot constantly moist, but on a bit of a gradient, wetter at the bottom, less so as you move up the pot. This is similar to what is found in nature since water drops in the soil due to gravity so there is usually more water the deeper you go.

I've built them in various sizes ranging from Solo Cups, to 1L take-out containers, to 2 and 5 Gallon (8 and 20L) buckets and up to 17 gallon (65L) tubs. Here's how I do them:


Solo Cups
This version is a bit of a compromise since creating the void is hard to do with such a small container so it's built a bit differently than the others.

For this size I make a small hole with a soldering iron or drill bit about 1 inch/25mm up the side from the bottom of the cup.

Then I put either small hydroton clay balls or perlite/pumice in the bottom up to a level about 1.75"/45mm and then top with soil. Since the hydroton/perlite layer is higher than the overflow hole, there is a bit of an air gap satisfying the design requirement. There is not as much air as in the other design options, but as I said, this one is a bit of a compromise.

Given the lack of real estate to work with I don't even bother with a fill tube, but rather water by sitting the solo cup in a slightly larger tub of water to fill the reservoir from below through the overflow hole. I usually put a second hole slightly above the overflow hole which seems to assist with filling the reservoir more quickly by allowing a vent for the air being displaced by the increasing water level.

That's it. If you use clear cups you'll be able to see the roots develop but be sure to slide it into an opaque cover cup since the roots won't develop as well if exposed to light.


1L Take-out Container
This is probably the smallest size I would take to flower but is large enough for a respectable harvest (relatively speaking).

For this one you'll need two containers. The first is the 1L container and the second is some sort of small food grade plastice cup/container where the diameter of the rim is slightly smaller than the bottom of the 1L container. I use small single serving applesause containers that fit perfectly. This will make the reservoir void by making a bunch of small holes in it and placing it upside down in the bottom of the 1L container.

I make an overflow hole in the 1L container about 1 inch/25mm up from the bottom but make sure it is at least 1/2"/12mm below the height of the cup that makes up the void to ensure I have an air gap. Up to double that amount is preferable.

Then I make a bunch of small holes in the smaller container (I use a soldering iron) and place it upside down in the 1L container. Put your soil mix in so that it surrounds the inner cup but try to leave a void between it and the overflow hole to help with air flow. I've built this size both with and without a fill tube so that's a preference decision.

Be sure to pack the soil around the inner cup firmly to help with the wicking process, but fill the rest of the container with soil firmed like you would for a normal pot.


2 Gallon/8L or 5 Gallon/20L Buckets
Same basic design as the 1L version, just larger containers. I get my buckets from Lowes in the States because they are a deep, dark blue which helps shade the roots from light better than lighter or white colored ones.

For the container that creates the void I've used food grade plastic food containers like salad bowls or food storage containers as well as pasta strainers. Same rules here, try to find a container where the upper rim is slightly smaller than the lower width of your bucket.

I do use fill tubes for these so first I make a larger hole in the bottom of the inner container (which will be on top when we flip it to install it) that is slightly larger than my fill tube. I use the white PVC plumbing pipe (1/2"/12mm) and make my hole with a 7/8"/22mm hole saw which is the outer diameter of the pipe.

I actually make two holes, one each on opposite sides of this inner container. Then I use two fill tubes with the idea that there will be a better chance at air flow with this set-up than there would be with a single entry to a cave-like void you'd get with a single fill tube. No science to back this, I just feel like it is a better design.

I also like to have my fill tube stop just after entering the void to ensure air flow even when the reservoir is full so I cut off a small stub piece from the fill tube and attach it back with a coupler which holds it up when installed since the coupler is a larger diameter than the pipe and won't fit through my hole. ResDog has his fill tubes bottom out in the reservoir but makes holes all along its length to accomplish the same thing.

Then I make my overflow hole in the outer bucket making sure it is at leat 1"/25mm below the top of my void container for the air gap, and then make a bunch of small holes in the inner container to try to maximize air and water flow from this inner cup into the surrounding soil. I also make holes on the bottom (what will be the top) of the inner cup to get air to the roots once planted.

Then fill the pot with your soil mix and be sure to pack the soil around the inner cup firmly to help with the wicking process, but fill the rest of the container with soil firmed like you would for a normal pot.

I use a funnel I cut from the top of a water bottle to make pouring water into the fill tube a bit easier. I use a plumbing fitting (called a bushing) to attach a 1" coupling to the 1/2"pipe and the neck of the bottle slides into it nicely. I'm right handed so I like to position the fill tube just to the right of my overflow hole. This makes it easier to watch for run-off as I'm filling the reservoir than it would if it were on the oppositie side of the bucket.


17G/20L Plastic Tub
This design is a bit different from the buckets. The tubs I used for my outdoor vegetable garden are rectangular and I use perforated landscaping drainage pipe layed flat to make the reservoir/air gap. I used 3 sections of 4"/100mm pipe that fit perfectly laid side-by-side but 2 sections of 6"/150mm pipe would work just as well and give you a larger reservoir.

I capped the pipes off with the cover that came with my 1L containers to keep soil out of the pipes. I cut the cover slightly so it would snap between the ribs of the drainage pipe. Then I made my overflow hole about 1"/25mm below the top of the pipe.

Next I installed a 1"/25mm fill tube by cutting a hole in one of the pipe sections and then filled around the pipes with my soil mix being sure to pack it well around the pipes to ensure good wicking. The rest of the tub was filled with my mix firmed like I normally do.

-Or- If using cloth pots, you can simply lay them on the soil that covers the pipes. I'd probably put a good inch or two of soil over the pipes to account for any settling, although there shouldn't be much of that if you've packed it well.


*******

So, that's about it. pretty simple but very effective.

ResDog and Emilya use a slightly different design for their tubs and hopefully they'll post their versions to show some options for those wanting to build their own.

And finally, here's another design option which is a video posted originally by @GreenFingaz which shows a common version found on YouTube:

 

[Ke0ncp]

Figure it’s time for an update on my sips

purple ghost candy x 2 and 4 days into flip:

 

[cbdhemp808]

Greetings SIPers,

I'm looking to build a DIY SIP using 5 gal HDPE bucket (food grade), all HDPE components, and wicking to simulate a GroBucket. I'm open to single-bucket -or- bucket-in-bucket style. The food-grade 5 gal buckets are easy to get, and Home Depot has 1-1/4" HDPE tubes. ACE has a 1 qt HDPE "Multi-Purpose Container" that could be used in place of a black plastic net pot (drill a bunch of holes in it).

I'm open to any design ideas that meet these requirements:

• fairly inexpensive and easy to build
• all HDPE components (#2 plastic)
• reservoir with drain hole
• watering tube
• proper aeration (air space)
• wicking (GroBucket style)

I just posted this over in my thread...

Quest for mold-resistant strains, Hawaii outdoor greenhouse grow

Personally, if I was only looking to get 8 oz. I'd start my plant in a 1 gal pot. Veg about 4 weeks & up pot to a 5 gallon SIP. Give it about 3 days to recover from the up pot & flip to 12/12. No need to veg any longer to get 8 oz. using a SIP. Now that I grow in SIP's I love to grow big ass...

www.420magazine.com

OK, I think I've created a good design here. What do you think?

• Bucket is standard 5 gal. food grade HDPE bucket (ACE Hardware), handle removed
  
  
• Fill tube is 1-1/4" IPEX HDPE black plastic pipe (Home Depot)
  
  
• Insert is an inverted 3 gal. Viagrow recycled HDPE nursery pot (Amazon)
  
  
• Drain tube is 1/2" flexible food-safe clear tubing

Inverted nursery pot height is trimmed from 9.75" to 7", and lots of small holes drilled in the base.

Bucket is white, so will be covered during use with reflective bubble wrap material, to provide a heat a light shield.

 

[Melville Hobbes]

OK, I think I've created a good design here. What do you think?

• Bucket is standard 5 gal. food grade bucket (ACE Hardware), handle removed
  
  
• Fill tube is 1-1/4" IPEX HDPE black plastic pipe (Home Depot)
  
  
• Insert is an inverted 3 gal. Viagrow recycled HDPE nursery pot (Amazon)
  
  
• Drain tube is 1/2" flexible food-safe clear tubing

Inverted nursery pot height is trimmed from 9.75" to 7", and lots of small holes drilled in the base.

Bucket is white, so will be covered during use with reflective bubble wrap material, to provide a heat a light shield.

That's really similar to what I made, except I trimmed a 4 gallon nursery pot down to a little over 2 gallons, and put the drain tube at the top.
I used a 2cm PVC pipe for the drain, so it maintains a 2.5cm air gap at the top of the res.

 

[cbdhemp808]

That's really similar to what I made, except I trimmed a 4 gallon nursery pot down to a little over 2 gallons, and put the drain tube at the top.
I used a 2cm PVC pipe for the drain, so it maintains a 2.5cm air gap at the top of the res.

Do you think I should move my drain tube up a bit? I put at 3.5" from bottom, as per GroBucket.

 

[Melville Hobbes]

Do you think I should move my drain tube up a bit? I put at 3.5" from bottom, as per GroBucket.

I guess it depends on how much of an air gap you want, and how much soil you want in there.
The way you have that set up you're going to be down to 2 gallons of soil, and quite a significant air gap.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I guess it depends on how much of an air gap you want, and how much soil you want in there.
The way you have that set up you're going to be down to 2 gallons of soil, and quite a significant air gap.

Good point... I don't know the answer. I was just trying to approximate the GroBucket, which I think has a 7" tall insert, but when I look at my design, the insert does look too big. I could of course take a couple more inches off the height of the insert. It seems people are telling me that a 5 gal. GroBucket will easily give me an 8 oz yield, which is what I'm shooting for (because of the size of my bud dryer under construction). But it also seems people have been saying this size SIP can be built to contain 4 gal of soil. So I'm confused. I would like to (probably) make it through veg with my photo plants, using my custom super soil, just adding water. And then start adding nutes at the start of flower. Something like that.

 

[Melville Hobbes]

Good point... I don't know the answer. I was just trying to approximate the GroBucket, which I think has a 7" tall insert, but when I look at my design, the insert does look too big. I could of course take a couple more inches off the height of the insert. It seems people are telling me that a 5 gal. GroBucket will easily give me an 8 oz yield, which is what I'm shooting for (because of the size of my bud dryer under construction). But it also seems people have been saying this size SIP can be built to contain 4 gal of soil. So I'm confused. I would like to (probably) make it through veg with my photo plants, using my custom super soil, just adding water. And then start adding nutes at the start of flower. Something like that.

My opinion, you should bring the height of your res down to just above the drain tube, giving you a 1" air gap.
That should give you a better volume of soil, while still having a good size res.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I calculated the volume of the insert as I have it, and that comes out to roughly 2 gal. If I fill the bucket almost to the top with soil, i.e. above the 5 gal fill line (where metal handle is attached), the current design would hold over 3 gal. soil.

My opinion, you should bring the height of your res down to just above the drain tube, giving you a 1" air gap.
That should give you a better volume of soil, while still having a good size res.

Thanks. It brings up other questions for me, like: 1) Why does the GroBucket have such a high insert and so much air gap? (or does it, and my drawing is off?), 2) why have more than a 1" air gap?

The res size is governed by the position of the drain hole, so if I reduce the height of the insert, the res size won't change. What will change is the size of the wick area—it will decrease in height, but increase is width. The wick area in this case has a doughnut shape, so the doughnut would become flatter and fatter (small hole). I don't know how that would effect the dynamics of wicking.

 

[Melville Hobbes]

I calculated the volume of the insert as I have it, and that comes out to roughly 2 gal. If I fill the bucket almost to the top with soil, i.e. above the 5 gal fill line (where metal handle is attached), the current design would hold over 3 gal. soil.


Thanks. It brings up other questions for me, like: 1) Why does the GroBucket have such a high insert and so much air gap? (or does it, and my drawing is off?), 2) why have more than a 1" air gap?

The res size is governed by the position of the drain hole, so if I reduce the height of the insert, the res size won't change. What will change is the size of the wick area—it will decrease in height, but increase is width. The wick area in this case has a doughnut shape, so the doughnut would become flatter and fatter (small hole). I don't know how that would effect the dynamics of wicking.

My res is doughnut shaped as well, and it's proportionally fatter than most bucket designs. Seems to be working fine.

Godzilla Glue 16 August 2024 2.jpg

• Melville Hobbes
• Aug 16, 2024

 

[Maritimer]

Ahoy There!
Looking for a bit of advice. My friends @InTheShed and others have far more experience running Auto's. When @RetiredRN stayed over at the new house she gifted me a dozen Northern Light Auto's, so I have a question or two.

What is the best light schedule from breaking surface thru harvest? Would it be best to leave on 18 hours the whole life cycle?

I love this thread, thanks @Azimuth.

 

[Maritimer]

What an awesome drawing/computer skills.
I went the easy way after @StoneOtter and purchased rectangular earth boxes.
When all goes well (SIP'S) are a superb gardening tool.
When it goes bad the plant goes into shock, and all turgid posture is lost. Fast, like overnight.
This has happened twice on separate runs. Neither plant would recover. Best bet is catching any problem and flushing the res.
As a note I run Hydro Guard, and the problem does not happen. @West Hippie hipped me to that idea.

 

[InTheShed]

What is the best light schedule from breaking surface thru harvest? Would it be best to leave on 18 hours the whole life cycle?

Most folks seem to go with 18/6 from birth to harvest with autos. 20/4 will work too if the leaves aren't curling from light stress!

 

[cbdhemp808]

My res is doughnut shaped as well, and it's proportionally fatter than most bucket designs. Seems to be working fine.

It's working very fine my friend! Thanks for your responses.

 

[cbdhemp808]

When all goes well (SIP'S) are a superb gardening tool.
When it goes bad the plant goes into shock, and all turgid posture is lost. Fast, like overnight.
This has happened twice on separate runs. Neither plant would recover. Best bet is catching any problem and flushing the res.
As a note I run Hydro Guard, and the problem does not happen. @West Hippie hipped me to that idea.

Sounds like a root zone pathogen—root rot. I've seen that overnight with my outdoor plants here in Hawaii. Sometimes plants can somewhat recover, but so far I've never seen them fully recover. Maybe I've seen a couple different pathogens, where one takes out the main root under the stem (sudden death), and the other messes with root health and goes systemic in the above-ground parts.

 

[MedScientist]

Honestly, I would remove the odd leaves, and wait to see if anymore develope. It may just be from the last foliar treatment?

 

[Azimuth]

OK, I think I've created a good design here. What do you think?

• Bucket is standard 5 gal. food grade HDPE bucket (ACE Hardware), handle removed
  
  
• Fill tube is 1-1/4" IPEX HDPE black plastic pipe (Home Depot)
  
  
• Insert is an inverted 3 gal. Viagrow recycled HDPE nursery pot (Amazon)
  
  
• Drain tube is 1/2" flexible food-safe clear tubing

Inverted nursery pot height is trimmed from 9.75" to 7", and lots of small holes drilled in the base.

Bucket is white, so will be covered during use with reflective bubble wrap material, to provide a heat a light shield.

Nice!

That 1 1/4" pipe should accept the neck of the top of a water bottle to use as a funnel.

I'd add some holes to the lower section of the pipe so air can get into the reservoir even when it's full.

 

[cbdhemp808]

I calculated the volume of the insert as I have it, and that comes out to roughly 2 gal. If I fill the bucket almost to the top with soil, i.e. above the 5 gal fill line (where metal handle is attached), the current design would hold over 3 gal. soil.
• • •
It brings up other questions for me, like: 1) Why does the GroBucket have such a high insert and so much air gap? (or does it, and my drawing is off?), 2) why have more than a 1" air gap?

@Azimuth, any thoughts on this? Should I reduce the height of the insert by a couple inches? ... 5" instead of 7"?

I have all the parts here to build a prototype today. I have both a 5 gal HDPE pot and a 3 gal PP pot to play around with.

 

[Azimuth]

@Azimuth, any thoughts on this? Should I reduce the height of the insert by a couple inches? ... 5" instead of 7"?

I would. You mentioned you wanted a water only veg period so more soil is going to be better than more water for veg at least.

And honestly, if you check your plants every day anyway, pouring water in to fill the res literally takes 30 seconds so even watering every day or even two times a day in flower shouldn't prove overwhelming.