Chuckeye
Well-Known Member
On the GroBuckets the fill pipe sits in a hole right at the top of the bottom insert....
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SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco Results In A Soil Based Medium
- Thread starter Azimuth
- Start date
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cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
Thanks. OK, so this brings up another question, which is... filling via the tube vs. watering or fertigating the soil. I would guess the later would be better, because the soil gets saturated and runoff fills the tank to the point of spilling out a bit from the drain hole. Or is this somehow not the best approach? My super soil mix is very water permeable and has a good amount of coir in it. And then another dynamic... to what degree does the wicking effect move water upward?
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
Thanks for pointing that out. I'm guessing my design will be easy, because I won't need to attach the tube to anything... it just sits on the bottom of the bucket and has an angle cut to allow good water flow. I can imagine that some sediment would get in the reservoir inside the insert; however, I can't imagine the tube would get clogged, because of the force of the water in the column.
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
Ha! Correction... I actually already have some 3 gal HDPE pots here! Stock dimensions are: Top: 11 inch; Bottom: 9 inch; Height: 9.75 inch.
- Thread starter
- #4,365
That seems to depend on multiple factors. If synthetics then down the pipe. If organics then at least a periodic top watering seems helpful. I topdress so do at least a weekly top water. But others do not.
You can still over water in these things though it's not as easy, and with the drainage in your mix you should have lots of options.
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
OK. So, if we following the logic and compare to a normal 5 gal pot... if I just water/fertigate as I normally would, then the reservoir would be more-or-less filled every time. It can't be over-filled, because of the drain hole. It could be under-filled, i.e. the reservoir would "dry out"—i.e. reduce in level as to be basically ineffective at wicking. In the extreme, the soil would all dry out.
So then the questions become... should the reservoir be allowed to dry out? Should the soil be allowed to dry out?
These questions seem counter-intuitive and counter-productive to the whole idea of the SIP, which is a relatively constant supply of water and nutrients, and no stress from dry-out.
So I take it, there is a happy medium... the reservoir should never go completely empty, and the soil should not be allowed to dry out, meaning the upper 1/2 of the soil (let's say). I can see one needs to just dive in and learn how to run these things.
- Thread starter
- #4,367
Always having water in the reservoir is what gives them the constant growth that compares to hydro. Someone did a time lapse of a SIP next to a regular plant and it was obvious when the non-SIP stalled out between waterings whereas the SIP kept right on growing.
In my smaller and shorter buckets I'm having a hard time getting brix levels up because the soil stays wet. Grows beautiful plants but the health could be better as measured by the brix levels. But I think that's because of the higher perched water table in the shorter buckets. But whatever, I've been letting the pots dry a bit between watering and its getting better.
I do want to find away to re-engage the reservoir though once I get my levels up a bit.
Seems like there's always something to learn with these things!
In my smaller and shorter buckets I'm having a hard time getting brix levels up because the soil stays wet. Grows beautiful plants but the health could be better as measured by the brix levels. But I think that's because of the higher perched water table in the shorter buckets. But whatever, I've been letting the pots dry a bit between watering and its getting better.
I do want to find away to re-engage the reservoir though once I get my levels up a bit.
Seems like there's always something to learn with these things!
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
keep the medium happy 
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
I sense it's important that the roots drink up what's in the reservoir, so if the soil is saturated by top watering, that would slow down reservoir drinking.
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
I'm planning on building my first SIP on Saturday... will post some pics and info.
Fudo Myoo
Well-Known Member
My 2 cents. In my limited experience with sips, I’ve noticed it depends on the root ball. My last run the root balls were huge so it didn’t take long to reach bottom and really empty the reservoirs. So at that point I water exclusively through the res and only top water when top dressing or it gets too dry. When the roots reach the bottom and dangle through the air gap…they really suck it up.
On this run, the plants are fine but the root balls weren’t as large from the get go so consequently they’re not yet draining the reservoirs. At this size last time, they were already exclusively drinking through the reservoir. So I’ve been watering them more sparingly from the top. Really just conventional at this stage and they’re healthy so it’s fine.
So basically if the roots are big/healthy enough, they’ll drain the pots no matter where it comes from. I just try to coax the roots to the bottom so they’ll drink from the res as much and as quickly as possible.
I haven’t been doing this long and still figuring it out. But my 1st 2 plants were a cinch, so I’m sold on the method.
On this run, the plants are fine but the root balls weren’t as large from the get go so consequently they’re not yet draining the reservoirs. At this size last time, they were already exclusively drinking through the reservoir. So I’ve been watering them more sparingly from the top. Really just conventional at this stage and they’re healthy so it’s fine.
So basically if the roots are big/healthy enough, they’ll drain the pots no matter where it comes from. I just try to coax the roots to the bottom so they’ll drink from the res as much and as quickly as possible.
I haven’t been doing this long and still figuring it out. But my 1st 2 plants were a cinch, so I’m sold on the method.
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
Greetings SIPers,
I got a couple new 5 gal buckets, both opaque with measurement markings... thinking they'd be helpful to observe root growth and res level for these first SIPs. (I will shield them from light and heat w/ reflective bubble material.)
I realized that a 2 gal bucket would probably be perfect for the insert, so I have a couple options for that: one is the standard ACE 2-gal HDPE bucket, the other is an HDX 10-qt (2.5 gal) HDPE with measurement marks (Home Depot). These will need to be cut down to the right height, and I'm now thinking 6". (The GroBucket insert height is 7".) I was going to do 5", but I decided that the difference between 5" and 6" is really negligible in terms of soil displacement, so I'd rather have more air space w/ 6". I think the HDX 2.5 gal "mixing container" is going to work best—it's the same height as the ACE 2-gal bucket, but wider.and the sides are more angled, which will create a bigger wicking zone.
EDIT: Scratch that last part... I don't think it's true. The HDX does have a wider rim... 1.4" wider. What's important is that when the HDX 2.5 gal bucket is reduced to 6" height, and when placed upside-down in the 5 gal bucket, it will have a more snug fit in the bottom of the bucket. The ACE 2-gal bucket fails in this regard, as it just fits exactly with its stock height of 9-3/8". When cut down to 6" height, the snug fit will be lost. ... fine points!
I found the HDPE 1-1/4" x 2 ft. black tubing at Home Depot ("IPEX polyethene pipe"), and also got a 3/4" one of those to maybe use for the drain hole. (Actually what I grabbed was a 1" in the 3/4" bin! The 1" is a bit too big for the drain tube... 3/4" would be perfect. Oh well, next time.) I also got a couple 2 ft sections of 1/2" PVC, so that will work for now for the drain.
Approx. cost of parts for one SIP, all at Home Depot...
• $7.00 for the 5 gal bucket
• $6.00 for the 2.5 gal bucket
• $1.70 for 1-1/4" watering tube*
• $0.90 for 3/4" drain tube**
* 2 ft. section, would be enough for 2 SIPs w/ slight design mod.
** 2 ft. section, enough for 4 or 5 SIPs
Total: about $16.00
This SIP is made from 100% high density polyethelene plastic (HDPE, #2), which to my knowledge is the safest plastic to come into contact with growing plants that might absorb chemicals through their roots.
I also learned today that virgin HDPE buckets are technically the same as what's sold as a "food grade" bucket. Just wash 'em out before using. A guy on Reddit said re: the standard ACE 5 gal white bucket... "Those are HDPE buckets. Generally they are food safe whether marked that way or not - the FDA considers virgin (non-recycled) HDPE food safe, while recycled HDPE is evaluated on a case by case basis."
looking forward to building this out on Sunday.
Turns out I didn't have the right tubing, so I went shopping at ACE and Home Depot today.
I got a couple new 5 gal buckets, both opaque with measurement markings... thinking they'd be helpful to observe root growth and res level for these first SIPs. (I will shield them from light and heat w/ reflective bubble material.)
I realized that a 2 gal bucket would probably be perfect for the insert, so I have a couple options for that: one is the standard ACE 2-gal HDPE bucket, the other is an HDX 10-qt (2.5 gal) HDPE with measurement marks (Home Depot). These will need to be cut down to the right height, and I'm now thinking 6". (The GroBucket insert height is 7".) I was going to do 5", but I decided that the difference between 5" and 6" is really negligible in terms of soil displacement, so I'd rather have more air space w/ 6". I think the HDX 2.5 gal "mixing container" is going to work best—it's the same height as the ACE 2-gal bucket, but wider.
EDIT: Scratch that last part... I don't think it's true. The HDX does have a wider rim... 1.4" wider. What's important is that when the HDX 2.5 gal bucket is reduced to 6" height, and when placed upside-down in the 5 gal bucket, it will have a more snug fit in the bottom of the bucket. The ACE 2-gal bucket fails in this regard, as it just fits exactly with its stock height of 9-3/8". When cut down to 6" height, the snug fit will be lost. ... fine points!
I found the HDPE 1-1/4" x 2 ft. black tubing at Home Depot ("IPEX polyethene pipe"), and also got a 3/4" one of those to maybe use for the drain hole. (Actually what I grabbed was a 1" in the 3/4" bin! The 1" is a bit too big for the drain tube... 3/4" would be perfect. Oh well, next time.) I also got a couple 2 ft sections of 1/2" PVC, so that will work for now for the drain.
Approx. cost of parts for one SIP, all at Home Depot...
• $7.00 for the 5 gal bucket
• $6.00 for the 2.5 gal bucket
• $1.70 for 1-1/4" watering tube*
• $0.90 for 3/4" drain tube**
* 2 ft. section, would be enough for 2 SIPs w/ slight design mod.
** 2 ft. section, enough for 4 or 5 SIPs
Total: about $16.00
This SIP is made from 100% high density polyethelene plastic (HDPE, #2), which to my knowledge is the safest plastic to come into contact with growing plants that might absorb chemicals through their roots.
I also learned today that virgin HDPE buckets are technically the same as what's sold as a "food grade" bucket. Just wash 'em out before using. A guy on Reddit said re: the standard ACE 5 gal white bucket... "Those are HDPE buckets. Generally they are food safe whether marked that way or not - the FDA considers virgin (non-recycled) HDPE food safe, while recycled HDPE is evaluated on a case by case basis."
looking forward to building this out on Sunday.
RedskinnedRhino
Well-Known Member
I had been using my SIPs perpetually. No Till. Just pull out the old plant and stuff in the new plant, when it's ready.
This Is A Mistake. Don't leave a SIP full of dirt with no plants growing in it!
My last 2 plants got Bud Rot at the end of flower, this is not a common issue for me, so I went looking for the rotten bastard causing the problem!
After a full scale chemical war on the grow room, and no mold source found - I attacked the SIPs waiting for their next plant.
When I dumped the SIPs, the entire reservoir was green and gritty with mold. All of them. Almost 200 gallons of supersoil got dumped.
It's my own fault, but it sucks balls. No more leaving soil in a SIP!
Now everything smells like bleach in here, and I feel better. Time to get started again!
This Is A Mistake. Don't leave a SIP full of dirt with no plants growing in it!
My last 2 plants got Bud Rot at the end of flower, this is not a common issue for me, so I went looking for the rotten bastard causing the problem!
After a full scale chemical war on the grow room, and no mold source found - I attacked the SIPs waiting for their next plant.
When I dumped the SIPs, the entire reservoir was green and gritty with mold. All of them. Almost 200 gallons of supersoil got dumped.
It's my own fault, but it sucks balls. No more leaving soil in a SIP!
Now everything smells like bleach in here, and I feel better. Time to get started again!
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear about that! ... but good thing you've got it under control.
I'm a SIP newbie... haven't grown this way yet. BUT... I have become somewhat of an expert on bud rot and leaf molds, since I'm in Hawaii growing outdoors in a warm, wet environment. The fungus/mold problem is something I deal with constantly in my grow. I have come to the conclusion that, for the most part, I need to grown strains/phenos that are very naturally resistant. It does help somewhat, though, to grow in a bigger pot—I went from 5 or 7 gal up to 10 gal and got better results.
Another factor is the labor-intensive mixing of my super soil, and this is probably the #1 reason I decided to try out SIPs. I'm shooting for an 8 oz. yield, and it seems a 5 gal SIP will easily provide that. Plus the bonus of more health all the way to harvest, and that should also provide some resilience to bud rot and leaf mold.
I have been recycling soil all along in my perpetual grow, and I always replenish it with nutes, compost, and worm castings. But, I'm starting to sense that in my environment, that reusing soil is probably not a great idea. I've had some problems with root zone pathogens. So I will definitely be emptying my SIPs after each grow and cleaning them out.
happy growing!
Thanks for that heads up RSR! Sorry for that!I had been using my SIPs perpetually. No Till. Just pull out the old plant and stuff in the new plant, when it's ready.
This Is A Mistake. Don't leave a SIP full of dirt with no plants growing in it!
My last 2 plants got Bud Rot at the end of flower, this is not a common issue for me, so I went looking for the rotten bastard causing the problem!
After a full scale chemical war on the grow room, and no mold source found - I attacked the SIPs waiting for their next plant.
When I dumped the SIPs, the entire reservoir was green and gritty with mold. All of them. Almost 200 gallons of supersoil got dumped.
It's my own fault, but it sucks balls. No more leaving soil in a SIP!
Now everything smells like bleach in here, and I feel better. Time to get started again!
- Thread starter
- #4,377
Maybe check out your local bakeries as frosting for cakes often comes in food grade 5 gallon buckets and you can have them for free or really cheap since they often have to pay to dispose of them. Sometimes pickles and other foods as well for restaurants.
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
Yep, and natural food stores, too. Thanks for the reminder.
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
Greetings Growmies & SIPsters,
The Eagle Has Landed!
Please let me know if you have any suggested mods.
100% HDPE 5 gal SIP. (well it will be when I replace the PVC drain tube w/ HDPE 3/4" tube). 1-1/4" fill tube. 1 gal res.
The fill tube is friction-fit into the insert, so has an adjustable height. 4" drain tube is also friction-fit. Hole in the insert for the tube was cut with a jigsaw. I made the hole in the insert for the drain tube using a 3/4" hole drill (spade bit).
Volume of insert is 6 qt = 1.5 gal. So, volume for soil is 3.5 gal plus a bit.
Holes were made with a soldering iron.
Small 4" drain tube on left. The holes in the fill tube (right) were made with a drill—not good because of the burrs which are tedious to remove. Better to use a soldering iron.
Drain hole in the 5 gal bucket, center is 3.5" from bottom of bucket. I made this with a 1/2" hole drill (spade bit), which works well but it was too small for the 1/2" PCV, so I carefully enlarged it with my knife.
Soil lightly packed in around the insert. I did this a handful at a time, evenly, so that the insert is centered.
Thin layer of coarse perlite on top of the insert, to help block soil from entering.
The finished SIP. I ran out of soil... need make another batch! Also need to cut a piece of reflective bubble material, to wrap around the bucket to block light and solar heat.
The Eagle Has Landed!
Please let me know if you have any suggested mods.
100% HDPE 5 gal SIP. (well it will be when I replace the PVC drain tube w/ HDPE 3/4" tube). 1-1/4" fill tube. 1 gal res.
The fill tube is friction-fit into the insert, so has an adjustable height. 4" drain tube is also friction-fit. Hole in the insert for the tube was cut with a jigsaw. I made the hole in the insert for the drain tube using a 3/4" hole drill (spade bit).
Volume of insert is 6 qt = 1.5 gal. So, volume for soil is 3.5 gal plus a bit.
Holes were made with a soldering iron.
Small 4" drain tube on left. The holes in the fill tube (right) were made with a drill—not good because of the burrs which are tedious to remove. Better to use a soldering iron.
Drain hole in the 5 gal bucket, center is 3.5" from bottom of bucket. I made this with a 1/2" hole drill (spade bit), which works well but it was too small for the 1/2" PCV, so I carefully enlarged it with my knife.
Soil lightly packed in around the insert. I did this a handful at a time, evenly, so that the insert is centered.
Thin layer of coarse perlite on top of the insert, to help block soil from entering.
The finished SIP. I ran out of soil... need make another batch! Also need to cut a piece of reflective bubble material, to wrap around the bucket to block light and solar heat.
cbdhemp808
Well-Known Member
I just finished corrections and edits above.