Quest for 1G/W: 1K HPS Liquid Cooled on a 6' Mover in a 4x8 Tent

[McBudz]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

Thanks for the info Wof and TS. Looks like Id be pouring a lot more money into my setup just to go water cooled.. 3 tubes.. chiller.. pumps.. ah man.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

One of the many benefits that he didn't mention in the current round of posting is that his water-cooled setup (along with his creativity) has allowed him to construct the almost silent grow room.

That's worth a few bucks in most setups, I'd guess.

 

[WheeloFortune]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

One of the many benefits that he didn't mention in the current round of posting is that his water-cooled setup (along with his creativity) has allowed him to construct the almost silent grow room.

That's worth a few bucks in most setups, I'd guess.

Definitely true, and one of the biggest upsides. Plus, its just simply much more efficient. When the water is cooled by a chiller, there is no better way to remove the heat before it enters your room that I know of.

In fact, it's probably the reason B is asking, since i remember him saying in his own thread that his fans are by far the biggest noise makers in the room.

I was house sitting for my friend this week and it's true, the only thing giving his grow away is in the adjacent rooms you can here the 6" all day. those f'ers are so loud, i bought one and couldn't run it. My water cooled adventure is a necessity for me if I wanted to try a 1k setup in my small space.

Thanks for the info Wof and TS. Looks like Id be pouring a lot more money into my setup just to go water cooled.. 3 tubes.. chiller.. pumps.. ah man.

Any Time B, Yeah i guess it is a bit of dough, especially for someone like you who already has quite a bit invested in your current setup.

considering a person starting with no equipment though, I think the water cooled setup is only slightly more expensive for a lot more bang for your buck. . . .

Air Cooled:
Hood ($100-$200)
Fan ($200ish)
Ducting ($50)
Total ($350-$450)

Water Cooled:
Hood ($220)
Wing ($20)
Pump ($80ish)
Tubing ($30)
50 gal res ($20-$50)
Total ($400-$420)

If you are running 1k or more in the summer you'll need a chiller, and that does add a significant amount. But it's a one time deal remember.

for 2k of light you'd need about a 1/4 hp chiller on a 50 gal res.
That would run you ($450-$550)

for 3k, you'd need a 100 gal res to run a 1/4 hp chiller.

neglecting the price of the chiller, the only other downside to the WC is that you have to have space for the res.

It'd cost you $1300-$1400 to go fully water cooled with 3 jackets, the right way. You'd love it if you had the extra cash, but your right. it would cost to cool that much light.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

Then there's the fact that a good air-cooled setup needs at least a couple of 6" ducts leading to/from the grow-room, while a good water-cooled one takes a couple of water lines that can be run in the walls like any water line.

A qualified Tinkerer could come up with a creative cooling solution or two that would be much less expensive. But the Tinkerer-in-Training would probably be ahead to experiment on other things first, lol.

 

[The Butcher]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

WOF yo wat up? Looks like things are moving along. The new growth looks like you worked through the def. As for the coloring. Since the chlorophyll has left the leaf surface causing the discoloration. Now traditionally it wouldn't return. That being said there are now additives to restore the color. Considering where the leafs are located, you'll probably be choppin them off. If not, then theres a product called "insta-green".

Check it out. Its a foliar spray. but again if your coint to trim the skirt up anyways. You'll be all good.

 

[The Butcher]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

WOF yo wat up? Looks like things are moving along. The new growth looks like you worked through the def. As for the coloring. Since the chlorophyll has left the leaf surface causing the discoloration. Now traditionally it wouldn't return. That being said there are now additives to restore the color. Considering where the leafs are located, you'll probably be choppin them off. If not, then theres a product called "insta-green".

Check it out. Its a foliar spray. Again if your going to trim the skirt up anyways. You'll be all good.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

Is there anything in that stuff besides nitrogen, iron, and B1?

 

[McBudz]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

I've used "greenstay" as a foliar and it seemed to work well at keeping nice green leaves through bloom. Seems like similar stuff

 

[Green Utopia]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

I've used "greenstay" as a foliar and it seemed to work well at keeping nice green leaves through bloom. Seems like similar stuff

Is there a reason its better to have green leaves through bloom?

 

[McBudz]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

Is there a reason its better to have green leaves through bloom?

Looked Pretty

Nah I used it for the first few weeks in bloom when I grew in soil. I felt it help with the transition. Plants didnt go N def. too early. I used greenstay "before" I started running veg nutes until the first sign of flowering and not right at 12/12. Its not needed but I thought I would through it out there since I've used it and it does make a difference in leaf health/appearance of health.

 

[WheeloFortune]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

A week has passed and the girls are looking good, i've been really busy lately and I haven't had time to change the res in a while. i need to do that tomorrow. time for a pic update after these messages.

Then there's the fact that a good air-cooled setup needs at least a couple of 6" ducts leading to/from the grow-room, while a good water-cooled one takes a couple of water lines that can be run in the walls like any water line.

A qualified Tinkerer could come up with a creative cooling solution or two that would be much less expensive. But the Tinkerer-in-Training would probably be ahead to experiment on other things first, lol.

yeah thats true. . . if I owned my own house, I would dig trenches in my back yard and bury some pvc runs a few feet deep. easy, cheap, can do it with a shovel, some pvc tubing, elbows, and some pvc cement. run it right into the house from underground and bam, instant cooling year round for $100-150 in pvc and some elbow grease. Unfortunately I live on the second floor, have no basement, and don't own the building, so it's just not doable for me.

WOF yo wat up? Looks like things are moving along. The new growth looks like you worked through the def. As for the coloring. Since the chlorophyll has left the leaf surface causing the discoloration. Now traditionally it wouldn't return. That being said there are now additives to restore the color. Considering where the leafs are located, you'll probably be choppin them off. If not, then theres a product called "insta-green".

Check it out. Its a foliar spray. but again if your coint to trim the skirt up anyways. You'll be all good.

Cool, thanks bro. yeah, your right that i'll just end up trimming them, since I am going to veg for a long time. But I looked at it, it looks like good stuff if it works. . . I've never used any grotek products before.

Let me give you some new pics to look at bro, those were from a week ago.

 

[WheeloFortune]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

here are some pics from tonight

Day 28 Veg

left

middle

right

closer

here is R3C2, i moved some around for better distribution. this used to be R1C7 from last set. . . sorry, i moved a couple more, but didn't keep track.

side shots:

The range from the smallest at about 9" (R3C2) and average at about 14" for the most part.

 

[WheeloFortune]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

Is there a reason its better to have green leaves through bloom?

A big problem I've had many times is that my Fans suffer from x y and z, and I lose energy production power. This effects yield dramatically.

I always thought a good foliar spray could really help, but I've never got around to trying any. I really like the info out there about dutch master's penetrator. . . maybe that and this together could be a good answer if I start having those types of problems again, but I've been pretty good outside of my wheel, so my limited budget is tight at the moment.

 

[TorturedSoul]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

if I owned my own house, I would dig trenches in my back yard and bury some pvc runs a few feet deep. easy, cheap, can do it with a shovel, some pvc tubing, elbows, and some pvc cement. run it right into the house from underground and bam, instant cooling year round for $100-150 in pvc and some elbow grease. Unfortunately I live on the second floor, have no basement, and don't own the building, so it's just not doable for me.

I wonder if there is a formula for determining how long a run would need to be. Such a formula might be pretty complicated if it had variables to deal with flow rate, pipe diameter, wall-thickness, and pipe composition. Different materials and thicknesses might have different transfer rates, IDK.

I also wonder what would be the best size, shape, and type of pipe (, line, etc.) would be the best for this application? In theory, something that had both internal and external fins to facilitate more efficient heat transfer would be best. In practice... Yeah, I don't know of anything like that on the market right now, either. (If someone would like to patent such an idea and market products stemming from it, I have written something about it and sent it to myself via certified USPS and it remains sealed in the envelope so that I may protect the ideas - but if you'd agree to distribute 4.5% of your profits to Mom, 4.5% to 420Magazine, .5% to WheeloFortune, and .5% to me for the first five years that your product is on the market with those percentages gently sloping to zero between years six and ten then I would gladly either send you the envelope, or destroy it. )

Remembering to bury the pipe below the local frost-line would be important.

Such a line ran in a fairly dense back and forth Z/N configuration with a cold frame on top might be of great benefit to people who also run outdoor gardens (of whatever type).

Part of battling the (general) solution of wastage is conservation - that is, to minimize the wastage - but a big part of it is in finding useful things to do with and purposes for the "wastage" so that it is no longer a waste but instead a benefit.

There are some members here at 420Magazine that have the knack for causing me to think whenever I read their posts, and you are one of best of them. Thanks for that.

 

[The Butcher]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

... (If someone would like to patent such an idea and market products stemming from it, I have written something about it and sent it to myself via certified USPS and it remains sealed in the envelope so that I may protect the ideas - but if you'd agree to distribute 4.5% of your profits to Mom, 4.5% to 420Magazine, .5% to WheeloFortune, and .5% to me for the first five years that your product is on the market with those percentages gently sloping to zero between years six and ten then I would gladly either send you the envelope, or destroy it. )

TS This has to be one of the best post of the day fosho..

WOF: If you use a foliar you gotta use DM's penetrator. Hands down the best wetting agent out there. You know how I am about my research and I did it on that one inparticular. Tested documented and proven to be the best on the market. Its got a hogh ticket price, but well worth it. and those gorls shot right out of the def. with no prob. you had that one handled quickstyle. I'm telling you got this one

 

[WheeloFortune]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

I wonder if there is a formula for determining how long a run would need to be. Such a formula might be pretty complicated if it had variables to deal with flow rate, pipe diameter, wall-thickness, and pipe composition. Different materials and thicknesses might have different transfer rates, IDK.

I also wonder what would be the best size, shape, and type of pipe (, line, etc.) would be the best for this application? In theory, something that had both internal and external fins to facilitate more efficient heat transfer would be best. In practice... Yeah, I don't know of anything like that on the market right now, either. (If someone would like to patent such an idea and market products stemming from it, I have written something about it and sent it to myself via certified USPS and it remains sealed in the envelope so that I may protect the ideas - but if you'd agree to distribute 4.5% of your profits to Mom, 4.5% to 420Magazine, .5% to WheeloFortune, and .5% to me for the first five years that your product is on the market with those percentages gently sloping to zero between years six and ten then I would gladly either send you the envelope, or destroy it. )

Remembering to bury the pipe below the local frost-line would be important.

Such a line ran in a fairly dense back and forth Z/N configuration with a cold frame on top might be of great benefit to people who also run outdoor gardens (of whatever type).

Part of battling the (general) solution of wastage is conservation - that is, to minimize the wastage - but a big part of it is in finding useful things to do with and purposes for the "wastage" so that it is no longer a waste but instead a benefit.

There are some members here at 420Magazine that have the knack for causing me to think whenever I read their posts, and you are one of best of them. Thanks for that.

Agreed, 100%.

they make flexible tubing for stapling to the underside of your subfloor for radiant heating that would give you specific flow rates and maybe even dissipation stats.

My frost line is about 3 1/2 feet, so thats pretty deep. . . and it's frozen a good portion of the year. lol. damn the cold.

I didn't do any math, but I think if you dug 1 trench, 10' long, 2' wide and 5' deep, well, thats a lot of dirt, but you could use straight up 10' long pvc pipe without cutting it. I would probably lay 6 rows of 2" pipe @ 5' deep. backfill a foot, then another 6 rows @ 4' deep. then backfill the rest.

Thats 12 rows, 10 feet long (plus the elbows, so say 11'ish), 2 inches wide. 12 x 11ish x 12in. x 3.14 = a bit less than 5000 cu. inches. which equates to about 20 gallons in the system at a time. I would think that would help a lot and only cost 5 bucks maybe. . . if you did two trenches, i bet you wouldn't even need a res, and the total cost is 100 bucks or so.

wanna know what i think would be sick?? talk about using waste so its not waste, something I totally agree with you about btw, . . .well, around here it snows quite a bit in the winter. . . if I owned a house, i think it would be sweet to run tubing in all the poured concrete around the outside of the house like the driveway, and maybe a back patio, and concrete stairs. then, exclusively during the winter months, you could use that to cool your lights. . . it would be a huge volume of water, so you'd need a big pump, probably run it in a separate loop int a res with a loop for the light in the same res. . . but anyways to the best part! not only is it cold as hell up at concrete level, so it would cool the hell out of the res, but all the heat from the light will warm up all that concrete. talk about jealous neighbors, while they are all getting ready to gear up to go out and either snowblow, or even worse shovel, your driveway and stairs will always stay bare due to it being above freezing. as long as the concrete was thick enough to withstand the temperature fluctuations, I don't see why that wouldn't just be the cats ass!!!

I can just imagine it now, walking outside after nature dumps 30" on you, and your driveway and stairs and all that are still bare. and you did nothing but use the cold to cool. muah ha ha ha.

of course it would make hot water in the summer, so you couldn't use it to cool during those months, but if you have a pool, now you have a free heating pad. lol. put it on a timer to cycle the pool during daylight hours and then off at night so it doesn't suck out the heat.


. . . oops killer blunt getting my mind to run. i could go on. lol.

 

[WheeloFortune]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

WOF: If you use a foliar you gotta use DM's penetrator. Hands down the best wetting agent out there. You know how I am about my research and I did it on that one inparticular. Tested documented and proven to be the best on the market. Its got a hogh ticket price, but well worth it. and those gorls shot right out of the def. with no prob. you had that one handled quickstyle. I'm telling you got this one

I want to get some, along with a million other things, like always. lol.

Thanks for the confidence bro, it gives me some via proxy. The only two things that can hurt me are time and money at this point. I am at a critical stage in other happenings in my life right now and have almost no time for my room. Also I have zero loot and zero coming in at the moment, until I finish what I am working on now. That means I am running without any enzymes, and a couple of other thing's i'd like to get nutrient wise, and I have to make do with what I have for now. It's also delaying the finishing of the aero, but that's not so critical as of yet. . . we'll see if i need to get another pump to run it, that might hurt.

Hopefully neither of these two factors will bite me too hard. I'm just gonna do my best as usual, and hope it works out to be a good show for yall, and a good harvest pour moi.

 

[WheeloFortune]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

Looked Pretty

Nah I used it for the first few weeks in bloom when I grew in soil. I felt it help with the transition. Plants didnt go N def. too early. I used greenstay "before" I started running veg nutes until the first sign of flowering and not right at 12/12. Its not needed but I thought I would through it out there since I've used it and it does make a difference in leaf health/appearance of health.

wait, sorry i am stoned but i can't follow.

you use it into flower, until they showed sex? or you stopped at 12/12?

I probably could have used this product more than once to solve certain issues I've had. never knew about it before butch just mentioned it.

 

[MountainHigh]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

Why go so crazy with all the diggin, use pipes someone already was nice enough to run through the dirt for you...just run the pipes through the floor and run them parallel to your cold water intake in the house and pipetape them...might warm up the first moments of your cold water a bit, but if you run your water regular like (toilets, etc.), you will have a significant mass to dump heat into....copper conducts heat rapidly...(I am such a nerd, will admit to having considered all this and tons more stuff, bong coolers, peltiers, and more for overclocking...there I admitted it...I am free...)

If you want some ground cooling, hammer a copper rod 4-5 ft into the ground and tie it onto your copper piping. Copper conducts fast.

Also on your external pump...you can mount it on a board and then leave one of the mounting holes empty and drill through the board, lay it on the ground and pound a rebar stake or two near it and pipe tape the rebar to the heat fins on the pump...keep your pump alive long by running it cooler.

Put a reservoir down there and run a external short run pump to dump the heat from the reservoir up to the plumbing and then back to the reservoir. Make sure the pipes make really good contact with the cold water pipe.

On the off hours, the short run pump will cool the reservoir to your water temp in your house...lots of heat storage in that to start with.

brother, from ramblin High....

 

[McBudz]

Re: Quest for 1g/w: 1k hps liquid cooled on a 6' mover in a 4x8 tent.

wait, sorry i am stoned but i can't follow.

you use it into flower, until they showed sex? or you stopped at 12/12?

I probably could have used this product more than once to solve certain issues I've had. never knew about it before butch just mentioned it.

I misted the plants about once a day from the first day of 12/12 and Bloom Nutes up until buds started to form. (I dont foliar feed budding plants)

I never really bothered once I switched over to using veg nutes up until flowers formed. The extra 2 weeks of veg nutes and seemed to carry enough to prevent premature N def. in the fan leaves during bloom.