Humid Temperate Colombian Andes Greenhouse Organic Grow

[cbdhemp808]

Hi Med, here's my general response to your last post...

Temperature: Cannabis plants like the 70-85 °F range. I think we can generally say that landrace tropical sativas like warm and wet. Landrace Central Asian indicas can handle colder, dryer climate. The low temps at your high-elevation equatorial location are problematic, so the best plants to grow outdoors there are locally adapted ones. Attempting to create new, locally-adapted genetics is a lot of work with no guaranteed outcome.

Photoperiod Cycle: A photoperiod cannabis plant is like a machine with respect to how it reacts to light. For a given phenotype, that machine-like response isn't going to change over time, either in one lifecycle, or in the lifecycles of individual plants produced by cloning that pheno. To understand the photoperiod cycle, the only thing you need to know is the night length for your location, at different times of the year. (Of course, the dark period is just 24 minus the daylight period.) This website will tell you that information: SunCalc . Presently at your location in southern Colombia, night length is 11 hrs 56 min. Two months ago it was 11 hrs 52 min. Six months ago it was 11 hrs 51 min. In June you get the shortest night length of 11 hrs 48 min. In December you get the longest night length of 11 hrs 57 min. So, your night length is basically hovering right around 12 hours all year round.

Flowering: Natural flowering of outdoor sativa plants at your location, for example the Mango Biche, is a function of the maturity of the plant, the amount of exposure to sun (for photosynthesis), the temperature, and I think to a lesser degree the night length. In other words, you plant to take advantage of the warmest, most sunny time of the year for the growth of the plant. And then, you are harvesting when it gets cooler. That matches what you said, "summer flowering here is September-October-November-December-January-February." This is typical for cannabis everywhere... harvest in autumn, and for long-flowering sativas, that can run into winter.

General conclusions... It seems it would be very difficult to grow anything other than the locally-adapted strains, unless you had a semi-high-tech greenhouse environment, with plenty of electric power, and temperature control. Otherwise, you could try landrace genetics from other geographic locations with similar altitude and climate—i.e. equatorial mountain regions. If you want to plant something beyond what's available locally, I think your best bet would be to contact The Real Seed Company and ask them for their recommendations. They specialize in landraces and have sativa, indica, and CBD selections.

 

[elcoloan]

Hey ! A bit late to the journal, but so cool tonfind someone growing in Colombia and active in the forums.

Im Colombian and live in Bogota. Got farming family all around the country and know plenty people in the cannabis growing scene here.

Please believe me, dont completely trust local outdoor growers. They use very traditional methods (synthetic pesticides and nutes, horrendous crop managment, very lowquality and badly planned greenhouses, etc) normally used in ilicit grows or taken from other crop growing, and several people will try to appear as experts just because they know how to grow potatoes or have been in ilicit (black market) grow... Yeah, they will grow stuff, but not the stuff you want for medicine.

So Id first make sure to get a proper person to guide you. I dont have the info at hand right now, but ill get you the contact info for a few local companies and people who can guide you in proper outdoor growing in Colombia. It's not easy to do though if you are searching for international medicinal standards. But for self-procurement, it can be done. In my opinion, green house growing (or outdoor growing) of cannabis in Colombia is too complicated if not done in regions such as El Valle (warm weather), and even in those better climates it can be a huge task to take on if you are aiming for high standards. Your pics and info you share seem to show you are in a colder and more humid region, so you are definitely undertaking a dificult task and should get a good guide so you dont waste time and resources. Ill get you the contacts as soon as i can.

A very good CBD strain found in Colombia ( with national cultivar registry and all) is Stellita CBD, but maybe not enoguh CBD content for you (CBD (%): 14,34; THC 0,22). You can buy clones of it from these people ESQUEJE CANNABIS STELLITA CBD 0,6 LT - PLANTAE but they are outofstock right know (id contact the guys and ask when they think theyll have it again). Ive grown this strain in Bogota's outdoor climate (no green house or anything of the sorts) and have had no issues with mold. I know people who ahve grown it in green house and it's a very good performer.

Hope anyof this helps you. Will hit back with the contact info.

 

[CBDMed]

Hi @cbdhemp808
Thanks for the great info.
I need to be brief right now but I am thinking about what you said.

Hi Med, here's my general response to your last post...

Temperature: Cannabis plants like the 70-85 °F range. I think we can generally say that landrace tropical sativas like warm and wet. Landrace Central Asian indicas can handle colder, dryer climate. The low temps at your high-elevation equatorial location are problematic, so the best plants to grow outdoors there are locally adapted ones. Attempting to create new, locally-adapted genetics is a lot of work with no guaranteed outcome.

Photoperiod Cycle: A photoperiod cannabis plant is like a machine with respect to how it reacts to light. For a given phenotype, that machine-like response isn't going to change over time, either in one lifecycle, or in the lifecycles of individual plants produced by cloning that pheno. To understand the photoperiod cycle, the only thing you need to know is the night length for your location, at different times of the year. (Of course, the dark period is just 24 minus the daylight period.) This website will tell you that information: SunCalc . Presently at your location in southern Colombia, night length is 11 hrs 56 min. Two months ago it was 11 hrs 52 min. Six months ago it was 11 hrs 51 min. In June you get the shortest night length of 11 hrs 48 min. In December you get the longest night length of 11 hrs 57 min. So, your night length is basically hovering right around 12 hours all year round.

Right.
But so you are saying that a dramatic drop from 18 to +/- 12 might impress a European indoor plant, it isn't going to impress a tropical sativa? And that even if the dark drops from 18 hours to 12 hours and (say) 9 minutes, that dramatic drop isn't going to impress the plant, even though some growers play with the upper end of their 12/12???

'Cuz I thought for sure I saw Emilya or someone pushing her lights to 12.5 / 11.5 or maybe even 13 / 11...
If that really does not work then I would need autos...
Only, it works INSIDE under LEDs?? (So why would it not work outside??)

Flowering: Natural flowering of outdoor sativa plants at your location, for example the Mango Biche, is a function of the maturity of the plant, the amount of exposure to sun (for photosynthesis), the temperature, and I think to a lesser degree the night length.

Right. The plant decides, "summer is over, and it is starting to get colder, so it is time to have kids!"

In other words, you plant to take advantage of the warmest, most sunny time of the year for the growth of the plant. And then, you are harvesting when it gets cooler. That matches what you said, "summer flowering here is September-October-November-December-January-February." This is typical for cannabis everywhere... harvest in autumn, and for long-flowering sativas, that can run into winter.

General conclusions... It seems it would be very difficult to grow anything other than the locally-adapted strains, unless you had a semi-high-tech greenhouse environment, with plenty of electric power, and temperature control.

Sorry, I know you know wayyyy more about this than I do, but I still do not get why I can hypothetically drop the lights from 18/6 indoors under LED to maybe 12:15 light and 11:45 dark, and the plants will flower reliably--but I cannot do that outside.
Do you mean I cannot do that outside with Colombian tropical sativas, because they are fine tuned to the number of minutes?
Or what do you mean?

I mean, even if MB or other tropical sativas balk and it does not work with MB or Moños, probably still I can get flowers from Dr.S., C&C, NL CBD, and Pineapple Kush (because they would flip in a grow room environment because of lights).
Then we can start the tropical sativas at the right time (in March).
That won't work??

Otherwise, you could try landrace genetics from other geographic locations with similar altitude and climate—i.e. equatorial mountain regions. If you want to plant something beyond what's available locally, I think your best bet would be to contact The Real Seed Company and ask them for their recommendations. They specialize in landraces and have sativa, indica, and CBD selections.

Thanks!
I wrote them, and we will see what they say.

 

[CBDMed]

Hey ! A bit late to the journal, but so cool tonfind someone growing in Colombia and active in the forums.

Welcome, elcoloan!

Im Colombian and live in Bogota. Got farming family all around the country and know plenty people in the cannabis growing scene here.

Glad you are here! It is great to be able to talk with someone who knows both farming and cannabis in Colombia!
I am trying to adapt my genetics to the local environment, hahaha

Please believe me, dont completely trust local outdoor growers.

No, I hear that for sure!
Lots of people here will tell you they know, when they do not even know how to look it up!

They use very traditional methods (synthetic pesticides and nutes, horrendous crop managment, very lowquality and badly planned greenhouses, etc) normally used in ilicit grows or taken from other crop growing, and several people will try to appear as experts just because they know how to grow potatoes or have been in ilicit (black market) grow... Yeah, they will grow stuff, but not the stuff you want for medicine.

I totally hear that. Thanks!
The contractor said he grew for some dealer in the Cauca. As you say, he said it was strictly the-cheapest-possible-way, regular chemicals, regular pesticides, etc. (Probably glyphosate also.)
Only, now he is in a different department. He said he has a friend here in the valley who says he grows all-organic, with garlic and pepper sprays for insects, etc.
I will only supply them with organic sprays and such, and will insist on separate spray gear.

So Id first make sure to get a proper person to guide you.

I dont have the info at hand right now, but ill get you the contact info for a few local companies and people who can guide you in proper outdoor growing in Colombia. It's not easy to do though if you are searching for international medicinal standards.

Thank you!
And if anyone knows CBD strains which resist mold and pests, that would be what I need.
The contractor said he can learn from his friend, which he probably can--but you are right, I have no idea the quality.
I thought I would doctor the soil for them, and then the contractor can grow and tend it.
But if there is someone local to this area he can learn from, that would be fabulous.

But for self-procurement, it can be done. In my opinion, green house growing (or outdoor growing) of cannabis in Colombia is too complicated if not done in regions such as El Valle (warm weather), and even in those better climates it can be a huge task to take on if you are aiming for high standards.

Hmmm...
I understand. We wanted to grow on the Pacific side, but long story, we ended up here.
If I do not grow in a greenhouse, then how do I keep the plants warm?

Your pics and info you share seem to show you are in a colder and more humid region, so you are definitely undertaking a dificult task and should get a good guide so you dont waste time and resources. Ill get you the contacts as soon as i can.

A very good CBD strain found in Colombia ( with national cultivar registry and all) is Stellita CBD, but maybe not enoguh CBD content for you (CBD (%): 14,34; THC 0,22). You can buy clones of it from these people ESQUEJE CANNABIS STELLITA CBD 0,6 LT - PLANTAE but they are outofstock right know (id contact the guys and ask when they think theyll have it again). Ive grown this strain in Bogota's outdoor climate (no green house or anything of the sorts) and have had no issues with mold. I know people who ahve grown it in green house and it's a very good performer.

Hope anyof this helps you. Will hit back with the contact info.

Thanks, @elcoloan . That is very good to know.
I might be looking for seeds come March, but probably not before that.
I have 22 older Mango Biche seeds from this valley on heat mats, trying to get them to pop. (One just came up.)
Probably I will try to sprout these for this grow, and if I cannot get what I need, then obviously I will look for more seed. If I do that, then I will definitely give Stellita a close inspection.

I look forward to hearing about the contacts or guides.

 

[cbdhemp808]

Right.
But so you are saying that a dramatic drop from 18 to +/- 12 might impress a European indoor plant, it isn't going to impress a tropical sativa? And that even if the dark drops from 18 hours to 12 hours and (say) 9 minutes, that dramatic drop isn't going to impress the plant, even though some growers play with the upper end of their 12/12???

I'm not sure what you're saying here. It sounds like you are talking about extending the night length, which would require "light deprivation"—i.e. covering the whole greenhouse to block out the light. I'm not familiar with that method, but yes, I think it's used to jump-start flowering.

'Cuz I thought for sure I saw Emilya or someone pushing her lights to 12.5 / 11.5 or maybe even 13 / 11...
If that really does not work then I would need autos...
Only, it works INSIDE under LEDs?? (So why would it not work outside??)

Light deprivation does work outside, but you can't turn off the sun with a switch, hence the need to cover the greenhouse.

I wrote them, and we will see what they say.

 

[CBDMed]

I'm not sure what you're saying here. It sounds like you are talking about extending the night length, which would require "light deprivation"—i.e. covering the whole greenhouse to block out the light. I'm not familiar with that method, but yes, I think it's used to jump-start flowering.

Sorry, what I am trying to say is that I want to artificially lengthen the LIGHT portion outside from 12 hours to 18 hours (thereby reducing the dark time from 12 hours to about 6 hours) by adding artificial lighting during veg, and then suddenly taking it away when it is time to flower.

My reasoning:
We get natural daylight from @ 6AM to @ 6PM (often cloudcover, but sunlight nonetheless). That is 12 hours.
Then, in addition to those 12 hours of natural daylight, I have two "super bright (haha)" solar-powered night-party-light strings on the way. At least they allegedly provide "bright" light for about 6 hours (hopefully bright enough to keep the girls from producing flowering hormone). It was the brightest string I could find, and I got two.
This was right before you showed me the solar panels and inverter (which I want to come back to some day, just not now).

They are supposed to automatically turn on at sunset, and run "super bright" for about 6 hours. That means they would start to go dim about midnight. Then the plants would have dark (and hypothetically sleep) between around midnight and 6AM, with the sunrise.
So, with that regimen, the plants will have 18 hours of light for veg. Then we will suddenly remove the light strings, so that the light hours drop from 18 to 12, all at once.
That is how I get my plants in my grow room to flip indoors, is by suddenly dropping the light hours from 18 to 12. I guess I do not understand why this same strategy should not work outdoors.

Light deprivation does work outside, but you can't turn off the sun with a switch, hence the need to cover the greenhouse.

Yes, thanks.
Sorry, I meant when we take away the night-extender lights it will be like the same as removing the hour at midnight, for night-interruption lighting. Only this time, instead of removing the night-interruption lighting we would remove the light-extension lighting (but both halt the flowering hormone).
Is there some reason removing night-extender lights should not work the same as removing night-interruption lights?
Sorry, but I am not getting it.
Then when the plants are big enough, we would take away the night-extender-lights (in one day).
This is how I get my indoor plants to flip. Will this not work outdoors, as well?
I hope I am explaining clearly.

 

[InTheShed]

That is how I get my plants in my grow room to flip indoors, is by suddenly dropping the light hours from 18 to 12. I guess I do not understand why this same strategy should not work outdoors.

It will definitely work outdoors as it does inside. I do the same thing but by moving the plants into darkness even when it's light outside (here in Los Angeles).

 

[cbdhemp808]

This is how I get my indoor plants to flip. Will this not work outdoors, as well?
I hope I am explaining clearly.

Your indoor plants only need night interruption lighting to prevent flowering. All you need to do is stop the night interruption and they will flower.

The local outdoor sativas don't even need night interruption lighting to prevent flowering. They will flower when they are ready. If you are trying to force them to flower early by providing night interruption, and then stopping night interruption, I don't know if that will work. They are already in a natural sunlight situation of right around 12 hours of night already, year round, and yet they only flower when they are old enough to flower, and when other conditions are met.

If you are talking about growing something other than the local sativas, outdoors in a greenhouse, the same applies—you only need night interruption to prevent flowering, and then turn that off and they will flower.

 

[elcoloan]

If I do not grow in a greenhouse, then how do I keep the plants warm?

Oh sorry, by green house growing I was mostly referring to those bambu or even cheaper ones you see in most places here. Yes, even those can be well conditioned to be properly sealed, with good thrips netting and all the bells and whistles..... and with top growing skills they work quite well, but most I've seen with cannabis end up having some sort of issue after just 3 o 4 runs (if not sooner) and seem to require more work and sometime even more cash in the long run compared to better greenhouses. Normally they have issues because of wood rotting, and also because of pests or other biological problems getting into the grows. Warmth is normally not the issue really unless you are in a terribly cold place, and a cheap palstic green house hleps with that. Point was, try to get that green house as well sealed as you can and invest in good thrips netting and proven IPM method for the region you are at if you want top shelf meds.

I just sent you a PM with some contact info BTW.


EDIT:
I couldn't start a conversation with you, so here is a very summarized version of the message:
I owe you a few more, but for now, I would really recommend the guys at Cerro Bravo dot co . They have their email and phone in their website. I haven't spoken to them in over a year or more, but they still seem to be doing their thing and they grow under bamboo and plastic. In their facebook page (Plantación Medicinal) they have several photos for you to get an idea of how they grow. Their workshops are very insightful. Hope they are kind to you and that they can help you.