Bux's 252W LED Micro Bloom w/ CO2

[WarBux79]

Yeah I just purchased a Sun Blaze 48 4' x 8 bulb - T5 HO fixture complete with 6500k bulbs for $203 inc shipping. Sure it'll cost me anoth $18 for a set of 3000k bulbs, but for that price I would take a light like that any day over any of the LED stuff out there.

As much as I dont want to agree with you its true. I took the chance on LEDs and they under perform. If heat and space is an issue then T5s are the way to go. The only way LEDs would be worth it is if the price came way down.

Sorry to hear about the lights, thats alot of money. With your efforts, you've sure educated me. I now know what to do next time I purchase a light. Thanks for the lesson

wct

Glad someone got something out of this grow Your doing pretty well with your grow if anything I should take some pointers from you. Scrogs are the way to grow under non HID lights for sure!

 

[WarBux79]

Any news on the refund / exchange front?

How about the missing pieces from your aero unit? You get them yet?

Not yet, My aero unit is still missing parts and I still have a broken light. I am waiting on Cammie to email me back about returning 3 lights.

 

[RageMonkey]

As much as I dont want to agree with you its true. I took the chance on LEDs and they under perform. If heat and space is an issue then T5s are the way to go. The only way LEDs would be worth it is if the price came way down.

Yeah, that won't happen. LED's are a stable commodity. Only way the price would come down is if they make larger LED's like a 10w. RIght now the largest you can get is a 3w and it's crazy expensive. The most cost effective LED is still the 1w LED. I really don't think LED's will be reasonable for at least 10 - 20 years if ever. This might be a different story is the cost of electricy triples or more. That could drive a desire for more efficent lighting.

Inititially LED's were considered for growing applications because their low weight, small form factor, and efficient use of electricity made them the best choice for space applications. Although cool, terrestrial growers are not going to have the same amount of money that a national space program has to blow on these things. For now it's really a novelty and astronauts who like low gravity weed.

 

[Ranlom1]

When are you updating your nug's

 

[wifecaretaker]

we want nugs

 

[RageMonkey]

Yeah, that won't happen. LED's are a stable commodity. Only way the price would come down is if they make larger LED's like a 10w. RIght now the largest you can get is a 3w and it's crazy expensive. The most cost effective LED is still the 1w LED. I really don't think LED's will be reasonable for at least 10 - 20 years if ever. This might be a different story is the cost of electricy triples or more. That could drive a desire for more efficent lighting.

Inititially LED's were considered for growing applications because their low weight, small form factor, and efficient use of electricity made them the best choice for space applications. Although cool, terrestrial growers are not going to have the same amount of money that a national space program has to blow on these things. For now it's really a novelty and astronauts who like low gravity weed.

Correction: It seems they do make a 10w LED now. I just found one labelled: 10W LED Emitter (11V12V 300 Lumens White 6500K) for $20.47 USD

It's a single LED as well. Another company has a 30vdc single 10w LED that ouputs 750 lumens for $40.

These prices are nuts.

 

[WarBux79]

So Pics will be posted later today. The trics are starting to go cloudy so we are close to the end!

On a side note, I still have missing aero parts. I have filed a complaint against Hydro Grow LLC with the BBB. I bet if everyone files complaints with the BBB regarding dishonest sales tactics these vendors would have to start telling the truth about the performance of their products. It took me about 5 mins to file the complaint and they actually contact the vendors themselves.

Yeah, that won't happen. LED's are a stable commodity. Only way the price would come down is if they make larger LED's like a 10w. RIght now the largest you can get is a 3w and it's crazy expensive. The most cost effective LED is still the 1w LED. I really don't think LED's will be reasonable for at least 10 - 20 years if ever. This might be a different story is the cost of electricy triples or more. That could drive a desire for more efficent lighting.

Inititially LED's were considered for growing applications because their low weight, small form factor, and efficient use of electricity made them the best choice for space applications. Although cool, terrestrial growers are not going to have the same amount of money that a national space program has to blow on these things. For now it's really a novelty and astronauts who like low gravity weed.

LOL Low gravity weed. I hope it doesn't take that long for the tech to catch up. I really don't have the wiring in the house to run more then 1300w per circuit.

When are you updating your nug's

I am going to take some pics shortly.

we want nugs

yea no shit. The poster is really slacking!

Correction: It seems they do make a 10w LED now. I just found one labelled: 10W LED Emitter (11V12V 300 Lumens White 6500K) for $20.47 USD

It's a single LED as well. Another company has a 30vdc single 10w LED that ouputs 750 lumens for $40.

These prices are nuts.

Wow that's pretty cool. I wonder how well these 10w LEDs would penetrate the canopy.

 

[Bolivar]

... I wonder how well these 10w LEDs would penetrate the canopy.

Probably really well. You could even use the light as a backup x-ray machine for home accident diagnoses...

 

[WarBux79]

Day Day 59 @ 12/12

They are pretty cloudy but none are amber. They don't really seem to be putting on weight anymore. The site says 1-2 more weeks.

Pop can inserted for laugh factor.

oops lol

 

[WarBux79]

probably really well. You could even use the light as a backup x-ray machine for home accident diagnoses...

rofl

 

[Scooby_Snacks]

Re: Day Day 59 @ 12/12

They are pretty cloudy but none are amber. They don't really seem to be putting on weight anymore. The site says 1-2 more weeks.

Bux, I hate to say this but I think we're missing something. I forget is that all one strain in there? I remember reading somewhere that certain strains don't do well under LED. Any other factors you haven't considered yet? With having 2 lights and having them that close to the tops, something else is not right. IMHO

 

[Retired One]

Re: Day Day 59 @ 12/12

I remember reading somewhere that certain strains don't do well under LED. Any other factors you haven't considered yet? With having 2 lights and having them that close to the tops, something else is not right. IMHO

What's not right is the lights. Overpriced, over-hyped. l we've all learned a valuble lesson here through your grow. Someday, maybe it'll get sorted out...until then I'll keep my HID stuff

 

[Scooby_Snacks]

Re: Day Day 59 @ 12/12

Thanks for adding something positive to the LED conversation.

I stand by my comments. EVEN with the lights not being the BEST on the market. THEY STILL WORK!!! Several grows now are pulling close to 1 g/w. While not up to the sales pitch, they still work. HIS grow is even behind those. I am trying to help him work out the issue.

Bux owns and uses the light and can say anything he likes about them.

What's not right is the lights. Overpriced, over-hyped. l we've all learned a valuble lesson here through your grow. Someday, maybe it'll get sorted out...until then I'll keep my HID stuff

 

[Retired One]

If you've followed any of my posts in this thread or any othe LED thread, I've said right out front that no one wants these to work more than me. However results are results. They are inferior in quality, production and cost to every other form of lighting. If anything negative is said about them, it's bashing...not so. The manufactures make wildly innaccurate claims and then recoil in horror when the truth is said out loud.

Someday, I'm quite certain they'll get it sorted out, but the day is not today, and I for one am tired of these outright lies told by LED manufacturers in order to sell their products. Truth in advertising it's called.

Anyhow, I wasn't trying to rile up anyone, but if you honestly believe that these lights are worth the money, then by all means use them. I think they are overpriced, over-hyped...and several grows don't seem to back this up...they do. Setting Sun, a grower of considerable skill, is being sadly let down by performance on both sides of his current comp grow.

My friend the evidence is out there...not my fault if you can't or won't see it.

And btw, bux did say it...post 158

 

[dogsnova]

LED's will make HID's a thing of the past.

Here is a good example of what I'm talking about..

To veg better then HID all you need is 425nm/660.
Here is how you do it. You run the 425nm led on for let's say 18 hours a day.
Here is the (trick) for veg anyway. You run the 660nm for a 1/2 hour on 1/2 hour off in cycles for the duration of the 18 hours you have the 425nm on. That's all it takes to out do HID in veg.... Two spectrums two timers.

I know your saying (veg) but we need to figure out the flowering with led. It's already been done.. The current problem is... To flower better then HID w/led you need to put together your own led light at this time. It only requires 425/660/730nm. But all three spectrums need to be separated and on three different timers. Trust me there is not a light currently on the market that uses these three spectrums and has them on three different timers...The trick is to flower using 24 hours of light... Yes this is for non auto-flowering strains... If anyone is interested in this advanced technique I can show you were to read all about it.

The funny thing is.... When these lights hit the market a some grows are done with them...... HID people are gonna be left behind. Far behind.

 

[Scooby_Snacks]

I for one am tired of these outright lies told by LED manufacturers in order to sell their products. Truth in advertising it's called.

I completely agree with you on this. That's why when I first put my plants in bigger pots I called HGL out on their coverage claims. That's when they started posting 2 sets of coverages. The "total" and the "most intense". I also agree that they don't live up to their claims of comparison. We'd need to pull around 3g/w to achieve that and I'm not sure that's possible. With that said. I don't think anyone who's grown with these lights and completed their grow yet has used these lights to their full potential. Will that be 3g/w? I doubt it, but I'm starting to think 1.5g/w - 1.7g/w is achievable by many of us and 2g/w or better from the best of us. While not up to claims is that so bad? The comparison grow vs. 1000w HPS. Ledtester says that he thinks he can double results. That would be around 2g/w. Even if he can't hit that, he can still improve.

Anyhow, I wasn't trying to rile up anyone, but if you honestly believe that these lights are worth the money, then by all means use them. I think they are overpriced, over-hyped...and several grows don't seem to back this up...they do.

I bought them already and was among the first on here. I think they are a little overpriced, especially after seeing the china direct prices. The jury is still out on a lot of things with these lights for me. The only thing I'm 100% sure of is that 1. they work 2. just not as well as advertised.

Setting Sun, a grower of considerable skill, is being sadly let down by performance on both sides of his current comp grow.

My friend the evidence is out there...not my fault if you can't or won't see it.

And btw, bux did say it...post 158

I won't knock SS's growing skills. The problem with that test is that the manufacturer does not know her product as well as some of us. He's simply got too many plants under the light. Period. 2 plants max for soil, NO MATTER POT SIZE, unless your going No Mercy or Scrog. He's following the manufacturers directions so I don't fault him. I also let him know this. 2 plants with SS's growing skills and I say over 1 g/w.

My only point is were trying to help bux WITH THIS GROW. He's got plants growing not up to par, when some of us have gotten better results. I'm not here to debate the light. We can do that to your hearts content on another thread. I'm here trying to help bux get a decent yield, RIGHT NOW! Something other than the light is wrong with his grow. My opinion.

 

[Retired One]

My only point is were trying to help bux WITH THIS GROW. He's got plants growing not up to par, when some of us have gotten better results. I'm not here to debate the light. We can do that to your hearts content on another thread. I'm here trying to help bux get a decent yield, RIGHT NOW! Something other than the light is wrong with his grow. My opinion.

I understand Brother, and I can certainly appreciate trying to help someone salvage a grow. I think alot of it with me was a grower here purchases a sponsor product, the sponsor misrepresenting the abilities of the light and then refusing to stand behind it. Burns my ass worse than a 4 foot flame.

And I'm aware of the issues with this grow...go back and read it all and you'll find that I was the first to point at ph problems and a cal problem, I've done this once or twice and when I say something, I'm sure of it, I don't make posts just for the hell of it.

I believe that a fair improvement can be made using these lights in this manner...but a fair improvement still won't outproduce flouro tubes and cfls at a fraction of the cost.

 

[Bolivar]

LED's will make HID's a thing of the past.

Here is a good example of what I'm talking about..

To veg better then HID all you need is 425nm/660.
Here is how you do it. You run the 425nm led on for let's say 18 hours a day.
Here is the (trick) for veg anyway. You run the 660nm for a 1/2 hour on 1/2 hour off in cycles for the duration of the 18 hours you have the 425nm on. That's all it takes to out do HID in veg.... Two spectrums two timers.

I know your saying (veg) but we need to figure out the flowering with led. It's already been done.. The current problem is... To flower better then HID w/led you need to put together your own led light at this time. It only requires 425/660/730nm. But all three spectrums need to be separated and on three different timers. Trust me there is not a light currently on the market that uses these three spectrums and has them on three different timers...The trick is to flower using 24 hours of light... Yes this is for non auto-flowering strains... If anyone is interested in this advanced technique I can show you were to read all about it.

The funny thing is.... When these lights hit the market a some grows are done with them...... HID people are gonna be left behind. Far behind.

I'm interested in reading about the 3 spectrum/3 timers theory. Where do I find it?

 

[dogsnova]

Since this tread is Bux's. I don't want to disrespect his tread and post some off topic info.. I need 25 posts before I can PM or I would just tell you to PM me.. I should of thought of this before I posted sorry.

Don't get me wrong. I have no problem directing you to were it is.. If Bux's says it's ok.. I will post the directions how to get there... Trust me it's a good read.. But it is a little advanced though..

 

[WarBux79]

Bux, I hate to say this but I think we're missing something. I forget is that all one strain in there? I remember reading somewhere that certain strains don't do well under LED. Any other factors you haven't considered yet? With having 2 lights and having them that close to the tops, something else is not right. IMHO

There are two strains here. The only thing it could possibly be at this point is the lights. I am sure I will get 1/gw but that's crap. I was told that two lights would by far out produce a 600w HPS. The only issue I had was a Cal def due to PH issues. After I took care of that its been pretty standard. I am keeping everything right where it should be. If you look at some of the leaves really closely you can see a few leaves that were hit w the Cal def but that's all really. The only possible issue at this point is the plants being to compact and bushy. I could trim up some leaves but I really dont want to trim any leaves. The lights just under perform. I purchased them from Cammie because of three reasons. She was a sponsor here, because she was working with Ed Rosenthal and to try and reproduce her results.

It has been found that she was using HPS in her bloom and Ed is not working with her. That's pretty messed up and that is two of the reasons I filed a complaint with the BBB for dishonest sales tactics. I own a company myself and while I have never had a complaint its a great tool for customers to use to spread the word so others dont get lured in by the same tactics.

What's not right is the lights. Overpriced, over-hyped pieces of junk. Bux, glad you put the BBB on Cammie, I had a brief PM conversation with her and knew immediately, before any of these grow tests came along, that she was full of shit...well we've all learned a valuble lesson here through your grow. Someday, maybe it'll get sorted out...until then I'll keep my HID stuff and laugh at the ridiculously false claims of these snake oil salesmen.

I agree 1000%. I spent good money to reproduce her results. I went so far as to order her Aero unit so I would have the exact same setup. LOL the only thing I forgot was the HPS lights hehe... If I were more experienced with growing I would not have fell for her BS. People like Scooby and I were just unlucky we got our stuff before people were able to test out the lights. I kind of feel sorry for the people who are still buying these lights due to the dishonest sales tactics. Then again there is a lot of proof out now that clearly shows the lights under performing. People just need to do some research.

If you've followed any of my posts in this thread or any othe LED thread, I've said right out front that no one wants these to work more than me. However results are results. They are inferior in quality, production and cost to every other form of lighting. If anything negative is said about them, it's bashing...not so. The manufactures make wildly innaccurate claims and then recoil in horror when the truth is said out loud.

Someday, I'm quite certain they'll get it sorted out, but the day is not today, and I for one am tired of these outright lies told by LED manufacturers in order to sell their products. Truth in advertising it's called.

Anyhow, I wasn't trying to rile up anyone, but if you honestly believe that these lights are worth the money, then by all means use them. I think they are overpriced, over-hyped pieces of junk...and several grows don't seem to back this up...they do. Setting Sun, a grower of considerable skill, is being sadly let down by performance on both sides of his current comp grow.

My friend the evidence is out there...not my fault if you can't or won't see it.

And btw, bux did say it...post 158

Scooby keep in mind that you and I are new growers. I hated the fact that I got scammed out of a few grand and at first I wanted to blame it on things I was doing wrong just so I wouldn't have to admit I got ripped off by Cammie. I am sure I will get 1 - 1.5 g/w but CFLs could do that in my setup. Cammie sold these as getting 3-4.5 g/w and there is no way in hell that's going to happen.

LED's will make HID's a thing of the past.

Here is a good example of what I'm talking about..

To veg better then HID all you need is 425nm/660.
Here is how you do it. You run the 425nm led on for let's say 18 hours a day.
Here is the (trick) for veg anyway. You run the 660nm for a 1/2 hour on 1/2 hour off in cycles for the duration of the 18 hours you have the 425nm on. That's all it takes to out do HID in veg.... Two spectrums two timers.

I know your saying (veg) but we need to figure out the flowering with led. It's already been done.. The current problem is... To flower better then HID w/led you need to put together your own led light at this time. It only requires 425/660/730nm. But all three spectrums need to be separated and on three different timers. Trust me there is not a light currently on the market that uses these three spectrums and has them on three different timers...The trick is to flower using 24 hours of light... Yes this is for non auto-flowering strains... If anyone is interested in this advanced technique I can show you were to read all about it.

The funny thing is.... When these lights hit the market a some grows are done with them...... HID people are gonna be left behind. Far behind.

So if your flowering under 24 hours light how does the plant know to go from veg to flower. Is this something you have tried before?

I completely agree with you on this. That's why when I first put my plants in bigger pots I called HGL out on their coverage claims. That's when they started posting 2 sets of coverages. The "total" and the "most intense". I also agree that they don't live up to their claims of comparison. We'd need to pull around 3g/w to achieve that and I'm not sure that's possible. With that said. I don't think anyone who's grown with these lights and completed their grow yet has used these lights to their full potential. Will that be 3g/w? I doubt it, but I'm starting to think 1.5g/w - 1.7g/w is achievable by many of us and 2g/w or better from the best of us. While not up to claims is that so bad? The comparison grow vs. 1000w HPS. Ledtester says that he thinks he can double results. That would be around 2g/w. Even if he can't hit that, he can still improve.



I bought them already and was among the first on here. I think they are a little overpriced, especially after seeing the china direct prices. The jury is still out on a lot of things with these lights for me. The only thing I'm 100% sure of is that 1. they work 2. just not as well as advertised.




I won't knock SS's growing skills. The problem with that test is that the manufacturer does not know her product as well as some of us. He's simply got too many plants under the light. Period. 2 plants max for soil, NO MATTER POT SIZE, unless your going No Mercy or Scrog. He's following the manufacturers directions so I don't fault him. I also let him know this. 2 plants with SS's growing skills and I say over 1 g/w.

My only point is were trying to help bux WITH THIS GROW. He's got plants growing not up to par, when some of us have gotten better results. I'm not here to debate the light. We can do that to your hearts content on another thread. I'm here trying to help bux get a decent yield, RIGHT NOW! Something other than the light is wrong with his grow. My opinion.

Man thanks for trying to help. I wish there were something I could do to improve my yield. I am pretty sure I will get 1 g/w with this grow but that's nowhere near what I was promised. I have done everything in my power to boost my yield. It just keeps coming back to the lights used.

2 plants max per light even for veg makes these lights even more expensive. I dont think you have totally come to realize that we were conned. If Cammie told you that these lights might perform as well as CFLs but cost 4x as much you wouldn't buy them. No one would. That's why Cammie compares a 126w to 400w HPS/MH. Its the only way she can sell units. She has grown with her lights she knows how well they work but she knows she cant provide real data and still sell her product. That's why she keeps revising her claims. Like the coverage area thing. When the contest between her light and the prosource light started she boasted that the angle of the lens would make her light finish on top but that prosource might lead at first. Then she revised it to "our light vegged better" because she had too. That is what a snake oil salesmen does.

I understand Brother, and I can certainly appreciate trying to help someone salvage a grow. I think alot of it with me was a grower here purchases a sponsor product, the sponsor misrepresenting the abilities of the light and then refusing to stand behind it. Burns my ass worse than a 4 foot flame.

And I'm aware of the issues with this grow...go back and read it all and you'll find that I was the first to point at ph problems and a cal problem, I've done this once or twice and when I say something, I'm sure of it, I don't make posts just for the hell of it.

I believe that a fair improvement can be made using these lights in this manner...but a fair improvement still won't outproduce flouro tubes and cfls at a fraction of the cost.

I am sure I could improve my results. I did after all have a Cal def because my PH was going crazy and I am sure it effected my total yield some but the plants have fully recovered now. I agree. I could get better results with T5s or CFL's. It goes back to my point about the dishonest sales tactics. If she told me that these lights were on about the same level as CFLs/T5s no one would buy them. She has made a killing conning people out of their hard earned money and that really pisses me off.