Barney's Farm - Mimosa X Orange Punch - DWC

And the rise continues……

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At a loss and what to do lol I had brought it back down to 5.5 last night and it’s at 6.4+ already.

I might re-sanitize everything today again. And ditch the cal/mag and hydro guard and just go right to nutes as a last ditch effort and then it’s back to SIP if that doesn’t do the trick.

Thinking that there is something up with one of those 2 items.

Thoughts?

Thanks for the input from everyone:)

I promised a shitshow at the start of this grow, I just didn’t think it would happen in the first week-10 days of the damn grow LOL
 
Ok so after doing more reading and digging through the interwebs it might just be a case of RO water and minimal/no base nutes = low alkalinity which = a low buffer capacity = low ph stability. With not as many carbonates the ph is fluxuating. As I increase nutes, if everything is aligned the ph will stabilize a bit as there are more buffers in the water.

I know a little about water chemistry from brewing and this sounds right to me. But is this an accurate statement?
 
Ke0ncp said:
I know a little about water chemistry from brewing
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A fellow brewer! I learned quite a bit about water from brewing as well. I haven't brewed since covid either, but the education continued through the pool/spa and then with hydro. You are correct, with RO water and no nutrients you have almost no buffering. Just the atmospheric CO2 is going to change your pH drastically. I start seedlings at 400-500 PPM. By the time the roots get down to the res they are ready for it. It also helps stabalize the pH (along with some silica). As you increase your nutrients it will increase the buffering and keep a more stable pH.

Remember the range is 5.5-6.5 and it's OK to move around on that range, even encouraged. Don't try to keep it too tight. If you are using AN, they are chealated to work even outside of that range. In hydro, pH will rise during veg and fall during flower by default (based on cations/anions being consumed). So I set my veg pH to 5.6-5.8 and add pH down when it gets to 6.2-6.3. I set my flower pH to 6.2-6.3 and add pH up when it gets to 5.6.5-8. It's OK for it to move a little. If it's moving too quickly (especially once roots are established) it usually means you are at the wrong PPM level (See the chart Shed attached).

I never use calmag but my water is at 100ppm without it, mostly calcium. Do you have any chalk (calcium carbonate)? 1g/G will give you about 100ppm of Ca and the carbonate should help stabilize the pH. I'd start at .25g/G and see how it does.

In hydro, you either go sterile (peroxide or chlorine) or use beneficial bacteria (bennies). I've always used bennies. That means ditch the starsan (it could be causing the foaming), you're not doing anything sterile. Keep the hydroguard, and consider getting some flying skull z7. This is an enzymatic cleanser and will help keep the res clean (makes small particles stick together, clump up, and fall to the bottom). Great White is another bennie to look into for hydro.

Good luck and Happy Growing!
 
LKABudMan said:
You are correct, with RO water and no nutrients you have almost no buffering. Just the atmospheric CO2 is going to change your pH drastically. I start seedlings at 400-500 PPM. By the time the roots get down to the res they are ready for it. It also helps stabalize the pH (along with some silica). As you increase your nutrients it will increase the buffering and keep a more stable pH.
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This is what it seems like. EC/ppm is starting to fall now as the ph continue to rise. I might just add in nutes to get to that 400 mark and hopefully stabilize it a tad
LKABudMan said:
Remember the range is 5.5-6.5 and it's OK to move around on that range, even encouraged. Don't try to keep it too tight.
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Yeah this part I get. What is concerning to me is the fast rise in ph, then the slow fall in EC with no roots in the water
LKABudMan said:
you are using AN, they are chealated to work even outside of that range.
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I’m will be using MegaCrop
LKABudMan said:
never use calmag but my water is at 100ppm without it, mostly calcium. Do you have any chalk (calcium carbonate)? 1g/G will give you about 100ppm of Ca and the carbonate should help stabilize the pH. I'd start at .25g/G and see how it does.
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It’s RO so not much in there. My tap even after a filter is over 300 ppm and is heavy on calcium which is why I went with RO
LKABudMan said:
In hydro, you either go sterile (peroxide or chlorine) or use beneficial bacteria (bennies). I've always used bennies.
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Ok will keep the hydroguard then :)
LKABudMan said:
That means ditch the starsan (it could be causing the foaming), you're not doing anything sterile.
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Yeah was not planning on using it at all honestly, but then when I had that funky foam and a bit of a smell to the water I figured it was time to kill any nasties!
LKABudMan said:
Keep the hydroguard, and consider getting some flying skull z7. This is an enzymatic cleanser and will help keep the res clean (makes small particles stick together, clump up, and fall to the bottom). Great White is another bennie to look into for hydro.
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I will look into those

Thanks for all of the info!!

I guess now I should just mix up some nutes and then let them mix and settle for 30 mins or so before I ph down again.
 
MedScientist said:
Being a long time Hydro grower, Overwatering is my Main enemy. I won the battle with Rockwool cubes after several disasters, then switched to Root Riot cubes because the O2 retention dynamics. I like EASY!
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Same here.

I caused serial mayhem with rock wool cubes by overwatering so I switched to Rapid Rooters (same idea as Root Riot) and have had zero issues since then.

For a few grows, I was very careful to add "just a little bit" of water to the RR but my suspicion was that the RR is designed so that you can't drown the seed/radicle by adding too much water. I tried that for my current grow and, sure enough, they all came through just fine even though I watered the RR by pouring water over it.

I bought a $15 bag a couple of years ago and keep them in a fridge.
 
I love Megacrop 1-part for hydro. I have found it is much more pH stable when pairing with a good Silica, even with my water.

The changing pH & PPM without roots in the water is just your water reacting to the CO2 in the atmosphere. If you've added calmag and then pH up/down, they may be reacting together to precipitate calcium, raising pH and lowering PPM. Again, I think most of this will be solved once you get PPM>400.
Ke0ncp said:
I guess now I should just mix up some nutes and then let them mix and settle for 30 mins or so before I ph down again.
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Or, just mix up the nutrients, get a pH, and let them sit for a bit, monitoring pH & PPM occasionally. It can take 24 hours+ for them to completely mix and the pH to settle. With no roots in the water yet, play around and see what happens if you don't add any up/down. I'm guessing you'll hit <6.5pH with no adjustment, and it will start falling after a day or two.
 
Well I went and mixed nutes and opens the lid to another horrible smell and grey water….

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Soooooo out came everything, mild dawn scrub and a good rinse.

I am now looking for a different RO water source to eliminate the water itself.

When I get home this is what my thought process is.

New airstones, RO into the res, hydro guard in, nutes into the res, wait an hour then ph down to 5.6.

I am skipping the calmag and I’m weary about the hydro guard as well.
 
Why not save the hassle and try your tap water now when it doesn't matter so much... ?

Cheers
 
Chuckeye said:
Why not save the hassle and try your tap water now when it doesn't matter so much... ?

Cheers
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That’s some good thinking so that’s exactly what I did!

And what do you know tap was coming out at 285 PPM so good to use as well.

Tossed in my silicon solution then have the red water then my hydroguard, the the rest of the red water then dumped in my nutes and this is what the current situation looks like.
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I’m going to go grab lunch, let the water warm up some, let all of the additions get familiar with each other and when I get home I will pull that ph down a bit.
 
Ke0ncp said:
I’m going to go grab lunch, let the water warm up some,
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Keep in mind that pH is somewhat temperature dependent, especially if you're measuring in hundredths of a point. ;)

"...the pH level of a solution is inversely proportional to the temperature."
Source

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InTheShed said:
Keep in mind that pH is somewhat temperature dependent, especially if you're measuring in hundredths of a point. ;)

"...the pH level of a solution is inversely proportional to the temperature."
Source

1732298961639.png
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Good chart :)

Man good thing one of the kiddos has been home sick and the wife is out of town, or I would not have been able to do all of this.

I am however about over the let’s try DWC though LOL if this doesn’t work I think I’m calling it and going to “up pot” this girl to a new SIP.

I am thinking it was that calmag though. The bottle has been open for about a year.

This is just now, about 2 hours since tea refresh and it’s clearer than right when filling using calmag and no bubbles on top of the water at all, like soapy bubbles.

I am hopeful now :)

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Ke0ncp said:
Good chart :)

Man good thing one of the kiddos has been home sick and the wife is out of town, or I would not have been able to do all of this.

I am however about over the let’s try DWC though LOL if this doesn’t work I think I’m calling it and going to “up pot” this girl to a new SIP.

I am thinking it was that calmag though. The bottle has been open for about a year.

This is just now, about 2 hours since tea refresh and it’s clearer than right when filling using calmag and no bubbles on top of the water at all, like soapy bubbles.

I am hopeful now :)

IMG_4613.jpeg
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Man I thought I was tripping. That picture of the DWC is trippy. Have a great weekend.
 
MedScientist said:
Looks like you may have solved things! 😉

But if it doesn't work out, think Turface/Jacks! Think Easy, no bubbles, no res changes, no problems! :hmmmm:
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You never know :)
Trala said:
My recommendation would be coco and burn your pH pen lolling.
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Seriously I am about done with it. But I really want it to work!!! So hopefully this is the one :)
 
MedScientist said:
Until the roots hit the water, you can raise the res up to bottom of net cup to help encourage the roots!
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It’s damn near there. Half inch off the net. So the popping of air bubbles should be hitting it :)
 
Ke0ncp said:
Seriously I am about done with it. But I really want it to work!!! So hopefully this is the one :)
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I’m cheering for you!

It’s an interesting process to watch that’s fo sho.
 
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