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- #161
Well if this round works I will pick some of that up. Can’t even find it on the zon maybe the local shop has some
Barney's Farm - Mimosa X Orange Punch - DWC
- Thread starter Ke0ncp
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- hafta sativa1970 tokin roll
I checked zon and only found 12%, which is funny because you can get 31% Hydrochloric Acid!Well if this round works I will pick some of that up. Can’t even find it on the zon maybe the local shop has some
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- #163
Yeah that’s what I saw as well….
Also noted about the strength of that stuff.
I’m trying to remain positive about this current attempt. It’s has gained a little in ph but nothing major. I will know by the morning likely is it’s a go or not.
And think about the mess I’m in for if it actually works HA!
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- #164
g-one-three
Well-Known Member
Better get some OSHA approved safety glasses or just squint real tight...
Sending the good vibes your way! Couple bumps in the road but you got this, I got the faith!
Chuckeye
Well-Known Member
I just use the 3%..
Cheers
Yeah, I'm pretty sure OSHA exists because of Me and anyone who looks like me!Better get some OSHA approved safety glasses or just squint real tight...
g-one-three
Well-Known Member
Ya I'm certified but they should probably just take that away from meYeah, I'm pretty sure OSHA exists because of Me and anyone who looks like me!
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- #169
Well I think it was the hydroguard that was the cause of the funky water!!!
Ph only went up 2 tenths, no grey funky smelling water, no crazy amount of foamy bubbles.
So it might be a success!! A little early to call it as the first round it was after 30 hours and then it exploded with what I am guessing was an anaerobic bacteria or microorganism . Good in fish tanks as it eats the nitrates and turns it into nitrites, or the other way around. Either way at this moment things seem to be good!!
I am going to stick with the 3% peroxide for now unless later on down the line I run into a root rot issue.
Damn hydroguard!! I must have gotten a bad bottle or something. So I’m just going to keep using the peroxide to help keep any nasties at bay.
Thanks again for all of the advice and words of encouragement!!
Ph only went up 2 tenths, no grey funky smelling water, no crazy amount of foamy bubbles.
So it might be a success!! A little early to call it as the first round it was after 30 hours and then it exploded with what I am guessing was an anaerobic bacteria or microorganism . Good in fish tanks as it eats the nitrates and turns it into nitrites, or the other way around. Either way at this moment things seem to be good!!
I am going to stick with the 3% peroxide for now unless later on down the line I run into a root rot issue.
Damn hydroguard!! I must have gotten a bad bottle or something. So I’m just going to keep using the peroxide to help keep any nasties at bay.
Thanks again for all of the advice and words of encouragement!!
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- #170
Day 8:
Wow it’s been a week that’s for sure!!! From her not wanting to open properly to disaster with my water…. I almost gave in there!!
With all of the movement I think that she might be stunted as there has been pretty much no growth in about 4 days…. Looking back through my previous journals she most certainly looks behind. Though she still looks like she is alive and not too stressed. She did get a splash of ph down on her I think though
Yesterday I took a dropper and got the hydroton right next to her and a few drops on her rockwool to hopefully boost things a little bit and make sure she wasn’t totally dried out.
I know that once she hits the res she is going to have rapid growth, but it is real slow going right now!
Also, I’m a jackass, in all of the reservoir madness I forgot to make a pump/water in port on the lid. Luckily I have another lid in the garage that I’m going to make a port in and swap them out.
I also added a third air stone to the red and turned it to full blast to ensure the water was oxygenated properly to also help fight off the baddies
Ok that’s it’s for today!
Wow it’s been a week that’s for sure!!! From her not wanting to open properly to disaster with my water…. I almost gave in there!!
With all of the movement I think that she might be stunted as there has been pretty much no growth in about 4 days…. Looking back through my previous journals she most certainly looks behind. Though she still looks like she is alive and not too stressed. She did get a splash of ph down on her I think though
Yesterday I took a dropper and got the hydroton right next to her and a few drops on her rockwool to hopefully boost things a little bit and make sure she wasn’t totally dried out.
I know that once she hits the res she is going to have rapid growth, but it is real slow going right now!
Also, I’m a jackass, in all of the reservoir madness I forgot to make a pump/water in port on the lid. Luckily I have another lid in the garage that I’m going to make a port in and swap them out.
I also added a third air stone to the red and turned it to full blast to ensure the water was oxygenated properly to also help fight off the baddies
Ok that’s it’s for today!
Awesome save! Bad product! I can't tell you how many times I put new parts in to fix a machine that were also bad! That's good work Ke-man!
Delps8
Well-Known Member
Re. the air pump - I'm a metrics guy and it took a few years to find it but I found a metric for pump size in a Bugbee paper.Day 8:
Wow it’s been a week that’s for sure!!! From her not wanting to open properly to disaster with my water…. I almost gave in there!!
With all of the movement I think that she might be stunted as there has been pretty much no growth in about 4 days…. Looking back through my previous journals she most certainly looks behind. Though she still looks like she is alive and not too stressed. She did get a splash of ph down on her I think though
Yesterday I took a dropper and got the hydroton right next to her and a few drops on her rockwool to hopefully boost things a little bit and make sure she wasn’t totally dried out.
I know that once she hits the res she is going to have rapid growth, but it is real slow going right now!
Also, I’m a jackass, in all of the reservoir madness I forgot to make a pump/water in port on the lid. Luckily I have another lid in the garage that I’m going to make a port in and swap them out.
I also added a third air stone to the red and turned it to full blast to ensure the water was oxygenated properly to also help fight off the baddies
Ok that’s it’s for today!
Dunno if this is helpful. My notes:
Principles of Nutrient and Water Management for Indoor Agriculture
Bugbee uses 10%
5 lpm for a 50l container
my res is 132 liters so 13 LPM is needed
"Continuous replenishment of O2 is therefore necessary to maintain about 8 ppm
dissolved O2 (DO) at the root surface. Previous studies have not found a benefit
from elevating O2 in DWC above 8 ppm by using 100% O2 for aeration."
"We have used a bubbling flow rate of 5 L of air per minute in a 50 L container.
This high flow rate has been ample even for long-term crops with dense root
growth. Lower airflow rates may be adequate for smaller, shorter-term crops."
Interesting thing is that, if you look at the pumps that various vendors ship with their tent kits, they're pretty much at about the 10% mark. Funny that.
Oh, that paper is a good read re. reservoir management. That document put the nail in the coffin of the Wonder Chart for me. ;-)
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- #173
My air pump is rated at 7lpm, but I’m not sure if that’s per port, there are 4, or if it’s a total split between the ports.
I’m going to assume it’s split so figure 1.75lpm per port
I’m using 3 ports so my stoner math says I have 5.25lpm
My res is 14 gallons/52.99L so should be 5.3lpm
I think I am just about in line with the 10% provided my assumption is correct. I have an email out to Mars Hydro asking them if it’s total or per port.
Yeah man what a PITA again only time will tell but I think I’m in the clear for now.
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- #174
Ok one more update for today.
She has grown since this morning!!
Hard to tell but the leaf with the spot was resting on the hydroton and now it is not
Also I had the res just a tad too full as the water was right at the base, had to remove about 1/4 gallon to get it about a 1/4 inch off the net. I figure closer, but not touching, is better right now to entice root growth into the res.
I also “installed” a port, though probably not big enough for the pump but is fine to add water. I figure I can just pop the lid open really quick and drop the pump in when I need to do that.
Port cover is about as ugly as it gets. Any cleaner maybe more effective solutions out there?
I cut one of the mats that came with those mars hydro buckets that is black on one side and reflective on the other, meant to go over the hydroton, to cover the hole. Then the part that was cut out is wrapped in aluminum foil and sitting on top of that mat. It’s not perfect but it will do the trick until I can figure out something better.
Also went in and placed some more hydroton to cover more is the side walls, especially up top to try and eliminate light peaking through there as well.
PH update sitting at 5.8 so still looking good with no major spikes. Just a smooth steady climb from 5.5 about 26 hours ago. Once I hit the 72 hour mark, or it stabilizes I will bring it back down to 5.6ish and let her ride from there.
Then for now the plan is once she hits the water for a week I will start my weekly increase in EC/nutes.
I’m feeling much more positive and in control of this now. Whew!
She has grown since this morning!!
Hard to tell but the leaf with the spot was resting on the hydroton and now it is not
Also I had the res just a tad too full as the water was right at the base, had to remove about 1/4 gallon to get it about a 1/4 inch off the net. I figure closer, but not touching, is better right now to entice root growth into the res.
I also “installed” a port, though probably not big enough for the pump but is fine to add water. I figure I can just pop the lid open really quick and drop the pump in when I need to do that.
Port cover is about as ugly as it gets. Any cleaner maybe more effective solutions out there?
I cut one of the mats that came with those mars hydro buckets that is black on one side and reflective on the other, meant to go over the hydroton, to cover the hole. Then the part that was cut out is wrapped in aluminum foil and sitting on top of that mat. It’s not perfect but it will do the trick until I can figure out something better.
Also went in and placed some more hydroton to cover more is the side walls, especially up top to try and eliminate light peaking through there as well.
PH update sitting at 5.8 so still looking good with no major spikes. Just a smooth steady climb from 5.5 about 26 hours ago. Once I hit the 72 hour mark, or it stabilizes I will bring it back down to 5.6ish and let her ride from there.
Then for now the plan is once she hits the water for a week I will start my weekly increase in EC/nutes.
I’m feeling much more positive and in control of this now. Whew!
Delps8
Well-Known Member
When I bought my tent kit, the DVD that came with it said to keep the water ½" below the net pot. So I did.Ok one more update for today.
She has grown since this morning!!
Hard to tell but the leaf with the spot was resting on the hydroton and now it is not
Also I had the res just a tad too full as the water was right at the base, had to remove about 1/4 gallon to get it about a 1/4 inch off the net. I figure closer, but not touching, is better right now to entice root growth into the res.
Gary at PA Hydro says to fill the res so that the net pot is in the nutrient solution. He sells more hydro kits so I figure he's fairly knowledgeable. The advantage of raising the water level that high is that means you don't have to top feed the seedling. Makes sense.
"entice root growth into the res." - roots respond to gravity and eventually hit moisture. They cannot sense water; they just keep heading in the direction of gravity.
I drilled holes to 1 ½" and installed "desk grommets" so I could run wires for my doser and monitor. These "wire grommets" fit over a hole for a 4 and something inch net pot. I'm pretty sure I bought the green cover in the photo below from Amazon but I can't find the order. I think it's a 6" diameter cover and I found it was just too large but you might need a portal that size if you're going to be putting a pump in and then taking it out.I also “installed” a port, though probably not big enough for the pump but is fine to add water. I figure I can just pop the lid open really quick and drop the pump in when I need to do that.
Port cover is about as ugly as it gets. Any cleaner maybe more effective solutions out there?
The water gauge is a steel ruler stuck into a 4" cork top from the Widget Company. 4" < the size of a 4 and something inch net pot.
Unless you are willing to drill holes in your res top, you might want to use fishing weights and hooks for LST. I use ½, 1, and 2 oz weights.
Glad to see things are turning around. The mystery of the grey foam…
pH 5.5?
"optimal" used to be 5.8 and per Bugbee, he recommends 6.0 to 6.5 (I've set my doser to 6.0) because cannabis and iron don't play nice once you get to 5.0. pH doesn't often drop (unlike what the WonderChart suggests, dropping pH is not a function of EC being too high)
I only run three levels of nutes - 300'ish for seedlings then rising up to about 500 or 600 for veg and then 700-800 for flower. There's no value to the plant to bump nutrient levels every week. In fact, one of the reasons to get away from the 5 gallon bucket is that the amount of labor is drastically reduced because there are so many ferts in the res.
The goal of adding ferts is to provide enough ferts to keep the plant in the sufficiency range. In terms of PPM (understanding that PPM is, at best, a bad proxy since it tells the grower nothing about what chemicals are in the res), I did RO add backs for a few grows and would allow the PPM to drop by 30% before I would do a new res. Even when the PPM of the res is down by 25% the ferts are either in the plant, where they belong, or there's still a hell of a lot of ferts still in the res.
I was having problems with my Bluelab pH, EC, and temperature monitor earlier this week. The display switched to all "8". I disconnected the power and the pH probe lead, then reconnected, and powered up. Display showed all "8"s. Shit. I have a doser that tells me pH and temperature and I have a water chiller so I decided that I simply didn't need to replace the monitor with a new one since I really have no need to know the EC on an ongoing basis. EC is just not that big a deal when you're dealing with a decent sized res. In a bucket, yeh, it helps to check because even a moderately sized plant induces significant, rapid change in a little bucket. Once you get away from the eye dropper-sized res, it's a very different story.
You're going to pay your dues learning how to deal with 14 gallons of nutes but the pay off is that you just don't have to dick with it that much. My res holds 28 gallons and I think it was in grow #4 that I started having "Maytag repairman" grows.
The big issue with swapping the res is because pH becomes unstable. When growers use a 5 gallon bucket, that's hand to hand combat. No thanks. With the bigger res that you've got, you will come to enjoy the stability of both pH and EC.
I just did my third res for this grow but I really don't know if it was needed. Bugbee mindset is to never have to replace a res. Why's that? Because NASA wants to grow crops in space and having to replace nutrient water in space would be a huge issue. His approach is that simply adding back nutrient solution is all that's needed to maintain sufficiency. Interesting idea, eh?
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- #176
Man @Delps8 you’ve certainly done your homework!!!!
Well this does make sense! I was thinking the same but that goes against what most will say, regarding where the res is at in relation to the net pot.
Yes, if I decide I like DWC this res is going away and I’m getting smooth top res and will port everything off the side except the water refill/pump port. Will make things much easier
Yeah this is pretty much what I was thinking as well.
That damn HydroGuard….
Yeah 5.5 is probably low and I will probably aim for the 5.8 as a tarting point
Fair enough and it makes things easier to do it that way instead of weekly bumps.
Yeah that’s why I went bigger and Inwill likely increase res size if I stick with this for another grow. Larger volume of water is always more stable.
That’s pretty interesting, I really like the thought of no res change at all!
Delps8
Well-Known Member
So it was the HydroGuard? Wow. What a relief to get that figured out.
Hydro has more pieces to the puzzle than soil but, once you get it nailed down, it's
g-one-three
Well-Known Member
I'm glad you seem to have things on the up swing and didn't give up on the DWC. Hopefully you'll be rewarded with monster buds. I have a hard time changing up what tshirts I buy let alone my growing style lol so I'm rooting for ya.
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- #179
Ok well not good news….. big spike in ph again….. greyish water again….. no smell though, or I’ve become immune to it. I tossed in some ph down and some more peroxide to try and keep it from going crazy today while I’m at work.
I’ve put too much effort into this to let it go with out one last ditch effort.
So I am going to swing by the hardware store and get a different res one that has more of a flat lid and one that won’t let any light through. I have a feeling that yellow was not blocking light as well as it needs too.
All hardware is getting a bleach bath. And I will reset one last time…. What a ride…
I’ve put too much effort into this to let it go with out one last ditch effort.
So I am going to swing by the hardware store and get a different res one that has more of a flat lid and one that won’t let any light through. I have a feeling that yellow was not blocking light as well as it needs too.
All hardware is getting a bleach bath. And I will reset one last time…. What a ride…
- Thread starter
- #180
Scratch the above plan. After a cup of coffee and the drive to work I have decided that the timing is not right to try and redo the entire set up. With the holiday this week and me being gone for a couple of days and the grow store being closed I will have no back up plan to put into place.
Sooooo back to SIP I go.
I want to thank everyone who helped out it is truly appreciated! I learned a ton even if this didn’t work out and who knows I might build a new set up for my next grow
Also I want to point out that HydroGuard was NOT the problem as I had previously thought and stated. There is something funky in my set up and it all either needs replacing or bleached. Unfortunately now is not the time.
I will update this thread and have it shut down probably this afternoon or tomorrow once the new journal is up and running so that anyone interested can follow along.
Thanks again, we have an amazing community of skilled growers here and I am happy that I’m able to tag along!
Sooooo back to SIP I go.
I want to thank everyone who helped out it is truly appreciated! I learned a ton even if this didn’t work out and who knows I might build a new set up for my next grow
Also I want to point out that HydroGuard was NOT the problem as I had previously thought and stated. There is something funky in my set up and it all either needs replacing or bleached. Unfortunately now is not the time.
I will update this thread and have it shut down probably this afternoon or tomorrow once the new journal is up and running so that anyone interested can follow along.
Thanks again, we have an amazing community of skilled growers here and I am happy that I’m able to tag along!