Autos v. Photos - A 5x5 No Rules Fight for Yield: A Jon & NickHardy Gig

[Jon]

It’s fine in coco. It’s fine in any medium. The problem is once available nutrients are introduced, and coco is typically used with available nutrients.

Even if somehow you didn’t stop colonization or suppress its growth, you still wouldn’t benefit from it if you’re using available nutrients. Myco doesn’t force extra nutrients into the plant, it will only give the plant what it’s asked for in exchange for exudates. If a plant is being fed with available nutrients, it doesn’t need anything from the myco so it won’t give the myco the exudates (giving myco exudates costs the plant as much as 30% of its resources, so it’s not a cheap partnership taken on lightly) myco needs to live and so the myco won’t do anything. There is zero benefit to using myco when using chelated and/or available nutrients.

If you’re using available nutrients and paid extra for myco, then you’re just wasting money. If it’s an added bonus you haven’t paid for then it won’t hinder your grow, but it won’t help.

Teaming with Fungi is a great book on the subject.

Thanks for this @Keffka. I couldn’t agree more. I tried for the 1 or 2% I thought I might get if I fed nutes plus myco. And you are now the second person for whom I have a ton of respect in this regard to explain this. The other was Emilya. You both echo the same thing. I dumb it down in my mind to something easier: the plant will always disregard myco for chemicals. It’s a junkie. So to mix is 100% pointless.

 

[Jon]

If you have a big healthy rootball with DYNOMYCO and other microbes in there it's much easier for her to pick up nutrients.
But in coco I still aim for 5.8, besides those charts always have some minor variation.


Stay safe
Bill284

Me too although this grow I’m trying 5.6 the whole time. It’s obvious from the chart that a lower ph in flower is beneficial in terms of the plant grabbing the P and K it wants, and it was actually this very common chart that got me thinking that. Although my girls did well in flower, after rethinking it, I’ve decided next grow I’m going to go 5.8 to budlets and 5.5-5.6 to the end.

 

[Jon]

I pointed this out to a Mega Crop rep on another forum stated why they don't list full list of percentage and inactive ingredients? They didn't have a good answer.

I've always had a sediment with Mega Crop that I believe to be the amino acids, they don't seem to be very water soluble. They dissolve slightly better in very hot water. That being said I've had very little issues with Mega Crop in everything from coir to Aero.

I'm glad I have a stock of the old 2 part formula without any kelp added!

Cheers!

Why you gotta be dissing kelp, @Wastei?

Thought you might get a kick out of that. Lol.

 

[Jon]

Northern Lights Auto
Jon Soil Mix Semi-Organic
@GeoFlora Nutrients
Amendments: EWC/Kelp/Mackerel/RGR/Great White/Organic Blackstrap Unsulphured Molasses/Bokashi/Frass
2.5 gallon pot

This is one of the four semi-organic plants in my grow. The two in 3s are the California Super Soil plants, this one and the other 2.5 gallon girl are my mix. Now that I see how beautifully the NL takes to organics she’s already on my short list to grow big. Always been a favorite strain, never grown it til now. She’s a glorious plant. Killer structure. Appears to be productive. Great internodal spacing. Guess she’s a legend for a reason, lol. This particular one is looking like she firing on all cylinders to me. I can easily project what I have here to a ten gallon pot and see some great potential.

Here she is today enjoying her afternoon in the sun, as she is one of two plants who are capable of leaving the tent and enjoying a day at the beach.

 

[Jon]

Gorilla Cookies Auto

This is the sister 2.5 gallon semi organic, same system as the Northern Lights. Also an awesome beast. She speaks for herself. This is what a plant dying for a ten or fifteen gallon pot looks like. Lmao. My new found love this strain.

 

[Jon]

Apple Fritter

Res change and some clean and sweet roots. It’s actually a bigger mass than it appears, the airstone is blocking much of it and keeping it together in the picture. Easier to switch that way.

 

[Keffka]

I dumb it down in my mind to something easier: the plant will always disregard myco for chemicals. It’s a junkie. So to mix is 100% pointless.

This is a decent way to look at it. I get needing to put it in a way to lock it in, I do it myself.

A junkie doesn’t care about meal planning, and isn’t going to invest 30% of their money for high quality foodstuffs. They’re especially not going to spend this money when edible food is being dropped in their laps

 

[Azimuth]

Apple Fritter

Res change and some clean and sweet roots. It’s actually a bigger mass than it appears, the airstone is blocking much of it and keeping it together in the picture. Easier to switch that way.

Wow, that's quite the optical illusion, unless you've found some buckets in the same place @NickHardy gets his solo cups.

 

[NickHardy]

Apple Fritter

Res change and some clean and sweet roots. It’s actually a bigger mass than it appears, the airstone is blocking much of it and keeping it together in the picture. Easier to switch that way.

That’s some pair of strides!

Lilac?

 

[Melville Hobbes]

If a plant is being fed with available nutrients, it doesn’t need anything from the myco so it won’t give the myco the exudates (giving myco exudates costs the plant as much as 30% of its resources, so it’s not a cheap partnership taken on lightly) myco needs to live and so the myco won’t do anything. There is zero benefit to using myco when using chelated and/or available nutrients.

I'm going to have to do some reading on the evolutionary link here, because this raises the question of how exactly myco could evolve to take advantage of the exudates if they weren't there to begin with, and if they cost so much for the plant to produce, why were they there if the plant wasn't putting them out there for another purpose?

 

[Keffka]

I'm going to have to do some reading on the evolutionary link here, because this raises the question of how exactly myco could evolve to take advantage of the exudates if they weren't there to begin with, and if they cost so much for the plant to produce, why were they there if the plant wasn't putting them out there for another purpose?

From what I remember, myco is the reason plants were able to move beyond coastal living. I believe it was also theorized myco was the reason plants moved out of the oceans themselves. Let me know what you find on it. I’ll dig around and see if I can find anything because I can remember reading about it’s age and import I just don’t remember where.

 

[bluter]

mycos is present in soils in complex structures stretching 1000s of kilometers.

 

[NickHardy]

mycos is present in soils in complex structures stretching 1000s of kilometers.

There’s that biggest living organism, sort of a fungal thing across eastern/central Europe?

Trying not google it!

 

[NickHardy]

Right!

Some genuinely informative stuff there! I was trying to break no ones balls! Just get peoples thoughts. And yeah did I!

Whilst we genuflect on that I have a quick update - the light company I’m using for this grow finally got back in the office post Chinese New Year. I’m allegedly top of the pile for fixing

Its fine now. I mean even sub optimal I have more PPFD than I can potentially use and I just ordered 3 more of those sweet sweet 60w lights, because at $30 a pop? Well yeah!

So to the smack talking!

You know what you need to beat me Jon? You know deep down before you even read it.

You need brass balls and dixie cups!

(Mauve coloured pants may also be helpful but you got that covered!)

To that end - solid brass balls and dixie cups are enroute! You have the tracking number - I’ve sent it privately and I think it will help level the playing field here.

Tutus and long lashes (sounds like an average Saudi Saturday ) are a bit advanced for you.

Your pal,

Nick

 

[Jon]

That’s some pair of strides!

Lilac?

My stepfather. I don’t do fashion. I wear shirts and t shirts. Same ones I’ve been wearing forever. I can’t think of anything more completely vapid than the fashion industry.

 

[Jon]

Right!

Some genuinely informative stuff there! I was trying to break no ones balls! Just get peoples thoughts. And yeah did I!

Whilst we genuflect on that I have a quick update - the light company I’m using for this grow finally got back in the office post Chinese New Year. I’m allegedly top of the pile for fixing

Its fine now. I mean even sub optimal I have more PPFD than I can potentially use and I just ordered 3 more of those sweet sweet 60w lights, because at $30 a pop? Well yeah!

So to the smack talking!

You know what you need to beat me Jon? You know deep down before you even read it.

You need brass balls and dixie cups!

(Mauve coloured pants may also be helpful but you got that covered!)

To that end - solid brass balls and dixie cups are enroute! You have the tracking number - I’ve sent it privately and I think it will help level the playing field here.

Tutus and long lashes (sounds like an average Saudi Saturday ) are a bit advanced for you.

Your pal,

Nick

Shit talk away Nick! I’m almost so sure it’s irrelevant I’m over the shit talk. Well, not quite. Much more into the myco discussion. I already have you beat. This morning was undercarriage day. No small task in my reality. However, it’s done. Which means my buds are getting close to max efficiency. Needs a final cleanup but from there on it’s bud city and the demise of NickHardy. Glad you’re *finally* sending the brass balls, lol, and thanks! I haven’t been able to find a spine without a pair, and mine don’t quite work the same way anymore.

 

[Jon]

Musings of a Stoned Man

I wanted to take a moment and express two things.

1. Nick - sorry man. You have no shot. You took on the wrong auto grower. This is what equates to my masterpiece. I will never again choose a grow that is this work intensive. Nor will I ever likely be as OCD as have been about this one. I told you if you accepted my challenge to bring it, cuz I was going to give you the best I got. Well, this is it buddy. The beauty of Citizens Bank Park is calling. Wait til you see how green the grass is. It’s fucking beautiful. Best park in the majors. And Nick, yes, the Phillies can play Boston. It’s called interleague play. Been around for years. Lmao. Something like 24 games a year devoted purely to National vs American League play.

2. This is more important. I’ve done many a journal here. And although I give all the credit to Nick for the audience here, there are quite a few really good, really upper crust, growers watching this and even commenting. In my own journals I get some traffic, but this is awesome in Jonland at least. So thanks you guys! I and Mr. Nick truly appreciate the discussions, the insight, the education, and the levity. You guys are making this grow as fun as it is, not us. So sincerely, thank you for being here.

That is all. Oh yeah, except for this, a group shot and a few undercarriages.

 

[NickHardy]

My stepfather. I don’t do fashion. I wear shirts and t shirts. Same ones I’ve been wearing forever. I can’t think of anything more completely vapid than the fashion industry.

I turned up to the Thai embassy in Malaysia and they had a sign “No SHORTS!”

I hadn’t worn trouser/long pants in nearly two years I realised.

Funnily enough there was a guy renting pants opposite for $30 a go.

 

[NickHardy]

Shit talk away Nick! I’m almost so sure it’s irrelevant I’m over the shit talk.

Yeah me too buddy. Lets have the love, buds and friendship shine through from here on out.

The knowledge sharing might get lost otherwise and that’s really why we are doing this.



Anyone wondering - we really are mates. That stuff was just for fun!

 

[Jon]

I turned up to the Thai embassy in Malaysia and they had a sign “No SHORTS!”

I hadn’t worn trouser/long pants in nearly two years I realised.

Funnily enough there was a guy renting pants opposite for $30 a go.

Goddamn, anything to make a buck in Thailand, eh? Seems like it’s embedded in the culture, yes?