Autos v. Photos - A 5x5 No Rules Fight for Yield: A Jon & NickHardy Gig

Maybe. Not true in coco imo. In coco, feeding max all the time is the whole point. Otherwise just grow soil, it’s way easier and cheaper
Depends if your talking max nutes to a chart/bottle or max nutes to what the plants visiblly taking up? So many variables like pot size and mixed or plain Coco..
I'm diving deeper into the hydro side of Coco accidentally whilst jumping hurdles but learning alot.
I seemed to have been lucky before Just following bottles and watering randomly daily to run off but now realising I haven't been using Coco to its full abilities.
 
Depends if your talking max nutes to a chart/bottle or max nutes to what the plants visiblly taking up? So many variables like pot size and mixed or plain Coco..
I'm diving deeper into the hydro side of Coco accidentally whilst jumping hurdles but learning alot.
I seemed to have been lucky before Just following bottles and watering randomly daily to run off but now realising I haven't been using Coco to its full abilities.
It is a very flexible medium. I only use it for autos, but autos flourish in it. And autos can take a daily feeding at max a lot more readliy than photos. They grow fast and big and I get a lot of veg time every time anymore. The Butt Method of feeding seems to increase growth as well. I’m not sold that my coco/water plants get any bigger than an auto in a 10 of coco. But I now know in coco, an auto can easily fill a ten. All my tens are already filled to the edges and too to bottom in my tens. Who knew?
 
For me coco just is engineering, its a means to hold some food briefly and support the weight of the plant above.

Next grow the big flower room is going to be 50/50 coco/perlite.

@Melville Hobbes - you just finished a pure perlite grow, what are your thoughts?

Nick
 
For me coco just is engineering, its a means to hold some food briefly and support the weight of the plant above.

Next grow the big flower room is going to be 50/50 coco/perlite.

@Melville Hobbes - you just finished a pure perlite grow, what are your thoughts?

Nick
Cool! I can’t wait for that. I’ve been seeing the all perlite grows and some do it real well. Just another hydro thing to me, I don’t quite see the advantage yet. But I’m game to learn.
 

Mel’s now quite recently completed journal is there.
 
For me coco just is engineering, its a means to hold some food briefly and support the weight of the plant above.

Next grow the big flower room is going to be 50/50 coco/perlite.

@Melville Hobbes - you just finished a pure perlite grow, what are your thoughts?

Nick
Fast growth, and fast reactions to changes, both good and bad.
It's probably similar to coco, but it doesn't grab cal-mag the same way coco does.
It doesn't hold as much moisture either, but it is extremely light and airy, lending itself well to root growth.
I didn't need to ph my nutrients, but then Bill didn't either in coco during his outdoor grow.
I like it. It's really simple, and does a good job growing plants as long as you can commit to caring for your plants daily.
 
Fast growth, and fast reactions to changes, both good and bad.
It's probably similar to coco, but it doesn't grab cal-mag the same way coco does.
It doesn't hold as much moisture either, but it is extremely light and airy, lending itself well to root growth.
I didn't need to ph my nutrients, but then Bill didn't either in coco during his outdoor grow.
I like it. It's really simple, and does a good job growing plants as long as you can commit to caring for your plants daily.
Yeah but how often do you have to water it? And do you feed every time if it’s multiple waterings per day? I assume you have to keep it always moist, yes? And thank you!
 
Yeah but how often do you have to water it? And do you feed every time if it’s multiple waterings per day? I assume you have to keep it always moist, yes? And thank you!
Also since it won’t grab the calmag, do you therefore use less?
 
Also since it won’t grab the calmag, do you therefore use less?
Sorry @Melville Hobbes , one more, lol…what about starting seedlings in pure perlite? Isn’t that tricky or no? I’ve found it daunting up to now for some reason every time I considered trying it. That part in particular, not sure why. Anything to know there?
 
@NickHardy, why do 50/50 vs 100% perlite, what’s your reasoning? And have you tried this 50/50 thing before? I assume you want the best of both worlds, yes? A pot of perlite just feels so…idk…naked. But I betcha you get a teensy ppfd bump on the underside of the lowest leaves from the light reflecting off the perlite, :rofl:.
 
Sorry @Melville Hobbes , one more, lol…what about starting seedlings in pure perlite? Isn’t that tricky or no? I’ve found it daunting up to now for some reason every time I considered trying it. That part in particular, not sure why. Anything to know there?
Did I say one more? I meant two or three. Lol - Heh. So if the light and airy nature of the beast lends itself to root growth, and I get that, then do the roots indeed outgrow a regular 70/30 coco-perlite medium or 50/50 or whatever? And is it therefore necessary to use larger pots? Damn, I’m asking so many questions about this cuz from a wheelchair perspective, hell, I could actually lift a ten gallon pot of wet perlite. Not a chance with coco or soil, my limit is a seven. It potentially could greatly decrease my workload in terms of the physicality part. I love working, and must have been a farmer somewhere in a previous life. However, for me, the more I work the more pain I’m in. I only have the upper half of my stomache muscles - that’s right where the line is for me. Anything lighter is awesome. So thanks very much.
 
Our coco since we’re close to the source is coco peat

Its important to note. I did a youtube on it but ai’ll update with a vimeo as its better for linking. Its the white bit the coconut and some internal husk. It looks like lush silk soil - really like something out of the Sears catalogue ladies section 🤣

Coco coir is the chunkier outer husk and the bricks are that dehydrated. Almost wood chips.

Ours is delivered with 20% perlite added and myco. Some such as @Keffka contend that myco in coco is pointless.

Keffka? I thought that madness when you told me. But now I think not completely pointless but not a big deal you miss it. I understand the science of what you were saying about it now. 🙏🏼

Why 50/50?

The two solo cups in my 5x5 in this very grow are coco peat for the OGK and perlite for the Bubba Kush. So we have a live experiment.

It just feels right to me watching them grow.

BUT - Prof Bugbee has a video where they tested it to death and decided the best mediium for growing hemp was 48% Coco 48% Perlite and 4% the rest vermili whatever and whatever.

So I’m not claiming it to be my idea by any means!

Also good point Mel - my Farmer mate Ph’s in coco indoors but not outdoors!

Bill (and I learnt from him) is religious about 5.8 in indoors but yeah - just realised he doesn’t greenhouse, right @Bill284 ?

Grow in coco, feed to run off every day with the low end of the nute manufacturers range and Ph to 5.8

Honestly - you will grow amazing plants. Promise its that easy.
 
Our coco since we’re close to the source is coco peat

Its important to note. I did a youtube on it but ai’ll update with a vimeo as its better for linking. Its the white bit the coconut and some internal husk. It looks like lush silk soil - really like something out of the Sears catalogue ladies section 🤣

Coco coir is the chunkier outer husk and the bricks are that dehydrated. Almost wood chips.

Ours is delivered with 20% perlite added and myco. Some such as @Keffka contend that myco in coco is pointless.

Keffka? I thought that madness when you told me. But now I think not completely pointless but not a big deal you miss it. I understand the science of what you were saying about it now. 🙏🏼

Why 50/50?

The two solo cups in my 5x5 in this very grow are coco peat for the OGK and perlite for the Bubba Kush. So we have a live experiment.

It just feels right to me watching them grow.

BUT - Prof Bugbee has a video where they tested it to death and decided the best mediium for growing hemp was 48% Coco 48% Perlite and 4% the rest vermili whatever and whatever.

So I’m not claiming it to be my idea by any means!

Also good point Mel - my Farmer mate Ph’s in coco indoors but not outdoors!

Bill (and I learnt from him) is religious about 5.8 in indoors but yeah - just realised he doesn’t greenhouse, right @Bill284 ?

Grow in coco, feed to run off every day with the low end of the nute manufacturers range and Ph to 5.8

Honestly - you will grow amazing plants. Promise its that easy.
Hey Guys :ciao:
In the greenhouse I fed M.C. with a little extra p&k.
If I mixed it high ppms with river water it came out at 5.6 to 5.9.
It was brilliant.
To drop the rh though I didn't feed like usual.
Just bar minimum to keep the coco wet.
Normally when it's pissing out then I stop watering.
No salts in the M.C. gave me that option through the last half of flower.



Stay safe
Bill284 😎
 
Yeah but how often do you have to water it? And do you feed every time if it’s multiple waterings per day? I assume you have to keep it always moist, yes? And thank you!
I did it hempy style, so there's a res at the bottom of the bucket.
You start off feeding around every 3rd day.
Late veg into early flower is every other day, and then every day in late flower.
Those are really estimates, and you don't really want the res to run dry.
You're feeding to a good amount of runoff, to flush any unused nutes out.
You could also do it the way @MicroGrowerMan was doing it by lining the bottom of a plastic pot with landscaping fabric and giving daily fertigation to slight runoff.
Also since it won’t grab the calmag, do you therefore use less?
I mostly found it wasn't needed, except for certain strains, like Black Sugar. Then it didn't take much, so yes, I would try less first.
Sorry @Melville Hobbes , one more, lol…what about starting seedlings in pure perlite? Isn’t that tricky or no? I’ve found it daunting up to now for some reason every time I considered trying it. That part in particular, not sure why. Anything to know there?
I just pop the seed in the perlite, about half a cm to 1 cm deep, and use a spray bottle to soak the perlite, giving it another spray every 12 hours or so. About 36 hours later I'm seeing movement.
Any shallower and it can push itself out of the perlite, at which point you have to bury it like the paper towel gang, but since perlite is so light you're not likely to damage the taproot doing so.
I just popped some seeds in my swempy journal. The Godzilla Glue #4 seed I planted the day before yesterday has popped, and should break the surface either later today or overnight tonight.
Heh. So if the light and airy nature of the beast lends itself to root growth, and I get that, then do the roots indeed outgrow a regular 70/30 coco-perlite medium or 50/50 or whatever? And is it therefore necessary to use larger pots?
I haven't used coco, so I can't say how different it would be from those mixes, but as @bluter says, one litre of hempy is worth one gallon of soil.
Smaller pots can grow large plants.
It's worth noting that I had roots right up to and even breaking the surface in smaller pots.
 
Same salts as every other synthetic nutrient, so I'm not sure why you're thinking differently.

it's like 95% salts and the rest is probably concentrated donkey manure. i think the newer stuff has more organic content than the stuff i have but it's not claiming organic by any stretch.




You might have been misled by another member here

i was nowhere near lol

 
it's like 95% salts and the rest is probably concentrated donkey manure. i think the newer stuff has more organic content than the stuff i have but it's not claiming organic by any stretch.






i was nowhere near lol
1% Kelp in the 9-7-14 and 2% Kelp in the new 8-12-28 2 part formula, I don't like that they added that in the new 2 part. 9-7-14 used to have Chitosan added but not anymore.

That's about it and the "organic chelation".
 
it's like 95% salts and the rest is probably concentrated donkey manure. i think the newer stuff has more organic content than the stuff i have but it's not claiming organic by any stretch.






i was nowhere near lol
When I use Remo or Plagron nutrients, my catch trays have a 1/2" of solid buildup.
Hard as a rock.
I didn't get that with MC.
It didn't have the salt build up I should have said. :Namaste:
So I didn't bother with runoff for last half of flower.
Reduced the rh in the greenhouse nicely.
Mixing it full strength the ph was dead on 5.8 every time.
Didn't have to worry about it was my point. ;)


Stay safe
Bill284 😎
 
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