If you have a canopy like mine in Florida and you only had two up top and two below you’d have a tent full of mold. I have 9. Moving air mitigates RH being a bit high a lot of times. I wouldn’t trade my fan game for anyone’s.
Perhaps. Perhaps not. I’ll go with my way. You do you though Nick! Whatever works for you. I’ve said many times that defoliation is among the most personal of skills - everyone does it their own way. And I have yet to see a white paper that says THIS is the optimal method.
So what chu gonna do, mobilize a Thai ladyboy squad? Or maybe you meant bud production in which case, in the words of Rozanne Rozanna Danna, " Never mind!"
I just re read it yes production is what I meant but the 420 minutes to edit my post have expired!So what chu gonna do, mobilize a Thai ladyboy squad? Or maybe you meant bud production in which case, in the words of Rozanne Rozanna Danna, " Never mind!"
Hey @SSgrower , thanks! I tried the Coco Loco. I didn’t like it. It held the water too long for me compared to the 70/30 stuff and I felt since I was forced to feed less often the plants didn’t get as big. But that’s interesting. It’s a good product, just a personal taste thing. Cyco sells an interesting set of coco mediums I may try. They’re of course all for sale and advertised in the super glossy catalog. Lol
You’re looking good Nick if a bit unruly. Since we’re over the shit talk, truth be told it looks honestly like it’s gonna be close. I still think your grow style is not productive enough per plant to beat a full tent of plants in actual pots, but we will see. That’s one of the main differences we have here obviously. I also think by the time you deflarf the tops of each plant will be okay. But perhaps not enough. It really is an interesting challenge. My brother asked me what the winner gets and I told him of the baseball thing. He’s like - oh. That’s a real bet. So you better win. Lmao!
So from the quote above I made a statement and either a) I'm aiming for 10% less defoliation to hit "goldilocks" or b) I lost my nerve!
Avid readers of my journals... anyone, anyone, anyone? C'mon Ok not even my Ma reads! Anyway we are normally far more ruthless than this but then my wife typically does it. I find it quite hard, "Oh poor plant!" stuff - I'm also much better picking the team than playing, or I like to think so!
Anyway - my plan is probably revisit it tomorrow when my eyes are a bit fresher, even without today/tomorrow likely be another.
The trellis net that some of you may call a SOG/SRCOG or whatever sure it has some useful plant space management aspects and I see growers use them all the time, way more beautiful tents than this will likely be. I'm very much using it for plant support. Seeing the plants fall over with bud weight does honestly get boring and it seem all the silic in the world won't save you from that.
My stretch height worries are over - slow down in the middle there - I'll easily hit the 120cm/4ft out the dirt.
Jon has already highlighted the importance of taking care of the "undercarriages" - especially in warmer and more humid conditions. Totally agree - I've deliberately, however, left a bit more. This grow is being setup to do what we can't always do (we have multiple tents, planning for drying/curing/trimming at volume) which is to do a gradual harvest. Most any home grower can do this, and already do - I'm leaving some fans down there for when the uppers are gone. A fan low down to keep stuff clear I'll put in tomorrow.
I'll also update the stages/dates/seating plan etc then - but really need to revisit tomorrow. "I'm a bit tired right now" not really cutting it, just nearly fell over with weary!
Nick
I can't cite the video but I believe that Bugbee says that the LSP for cannabis in ambient CO2 is 800-1000µmol.
Well hello @Delps8! Thanks so much. This is awesome and an involved post, I appreciate your time. And frankly, as I digest the info you present here I come to the same conclusion. Turn it up to 11. I simply think the 800 thing is wrong, regardless of any charts or graphs or “proof.” As even this info shows, proof is subjective and differs based on goal and philosophy. Amazing info and thanks so much.I can't cite the video but I believe that Bugbee says that the LSP for cannabis in ambient CO2 is 800-1000µmol.
I'm surprised that Bugbee would say that 800 is the upper limit in ambient CO2 since there's easily available research that shows that to not be the case, some of it from a former student.
This yield table is from the attached paper.
This is in contrast to the Chandra paper, done in a CO2-enhanced environment, which shows that the curve of net Photosynthesis starts to roll off at about 500µmol.
I have seen allusions to this and, for a while, was conflicted because Bugbee et all argue for more light is better (with caveats re. environment) even though the net photosynthesis curve was dropping. Key point - we're not harvesting net photosynthesis; we're harvesting plant mass and that's why the Frontiers paper is so important.
In the Frontiers paper, the slope of the yield curve drops but it's still increasing at a significant rate.
Per the Frontiers paper, going from an average of 800µmol to 1000µmol, resulted in an increase of 4.3+4.1+4.0 or a bit over 12%.
What's the pain level of, "perhaps" getting that extra 12%? Many grows will not be able to get to 1kµmol but there's still a significant improvement by going from 800 to 850, for example.
My choice is turn it up to 11.
On the other hand, I'm not surprised that Shane at Migro says that, indeed, if you look at the light levels that his light produce, they pretty much max out at that level. That give Shane a material cost advantage - most grow light vendors have lights that will hit > 1kµmol so they need a more light that will do that. A bigger driver, for one. The Migro lights, for example for a 2 x 4 use a 240 watt driver vs other vendors that are using >= 300 watts. This is not surprising to me because I believe that Shane does believe that to be the max PPFD. I say that because, when Shane an interview with Bugbee and Bugbee very nonchalantly talked about 1kµmol, Shane acted surprised. I was surprised by his reaction but it did answer my question as to why he was selling lights that were markedly less powerful than the competition.
If plants are getting lots of light, they have no need to stretch to get food. Instead, they'll spend that food (the glucose they generate from photosynthesis) on creating lots of small leaves and lots of nodes. Having said that, 500µmol is a huge amount of light for a seedling. Below are the data for my current grow. I was a bit lax in pushing the envelope but got my act together around day 26.
I have the 5x5 version of the identical light, the E series. I exceed those numbers by compromising the proximity and deal with the foxtails. Lmao. Interesting chart, you do that for all your grows? And wow, do you do it slow and gradual. I don’t have the patience for that. I begin at 400 ppfd out of the soil. As soon as they have two sets of real leaves I’m at 600, and I work up to 900 pre flip or pre flower (autos). Stretch I’m at 1000-1100 and from there whatever the plant can take. Lol. It’s fascinating to me how many different approaches there are from a large group with a common goal: YIELD. Ha.If plants are getting lots of light, they have no need to stretch to get food. Instead, they'll spend that food (the glucose they generate from photosynthesis) on creating lots of small leaves and lots of nodes. Having said that, 500µmol is a huge amount of light for a seedling. Below are the data for my current grow. I was a bit lax in pushing the envelope but got my act together around day 26.
At 1300, I really have to wonder how big those µmols are.
I say that because being be able to run cannabis at 1400 without using CO2 is really quite something because that is 40% higher the how cannabis generally behaves and is significantly higher than "optimal" rates for non-CO2 environments.
Per the PPFD map below (available here), even at an 8" hang height, there are very few spots in the FC-E4800 PPFD map that exceed 1050µmol.
Thank you for clarifying. I might have copy/pasted from a different grow journal. Mea culpa!
Pros and cons! I had that in this grow from 2 years ago. Gelatos grown from seeds, same seed pack. I set the main light at 1200± to try to light the canopy. Ugliness ensued. Lots of foxtails before I got my head out of my ass an bought a little Vipar XS-1500
"slow and gradual" -those are pretty much the highest values that I've given my plants. I start at "typical seedling level" but I know, for this grow at least, I was "slacking" a bit. I appreciate the comment, though. For my next grow, I'll be more aware of that.
HPS gives off IR, same as heat lamps in the cafeteria. LED's don't give off IR because plants can't use it and because it would tend to heat the grow, like HPS does.
The heck with PPFD since that's a moment in time. Are you really running a DLI in the mid 80s in flower?
Infrared greatly improve growth rate and efficiency of photosynthesis.
For autos, yes.
