Woodsman's Northern Light #5 Grow

[3lions]

Well, I just mean if nutrients are all they are cracked up to be one shouldnt be suffering with lack of calciums and magnesiums etc you know? I think there is a lot of nonsense out there the more I look into it. Like "buy this soil and add these nutes" If the nutes are needed then why the hell aint they in the soil in the first place? Know what Im saying?

The more I delve the more Im likely to use less and less additives generally I think, ironically that could go for most things nowdays , not just plants but even the food we eat I suppose.

 

[Woodsman]

Well, I just mean if nutrients are all they are cracked up to be one shouldnt be suffering with lack of calciums and magnesiums etc you know? I think there is a lot of nonsense out there the more I look into it. Like "buy this soil and add these nutes" If the nutes are needed then why the hell aint they in the soil in the first place? Know what Im saying?

The more I delve the more Im likely to use less and less additives generally I think, ironically that could go for most things nowdays , not just plants but even the food we eat I suppose.

People have been fertilizing their soil for thousands of years. It's not like it is a new invention. Food sources that grow in the wild are smaller and the amounts are less.

 

[3lions]

well yeahh I dont mean them all of course, there are top ups to be made, I just mean that so many people seem to be adding ten different things to their soils every week nowadays whilst buying the latest greatest soil in the first place. That advanced nutrients stuff looks prety clever, they way it keeps yer ph steady and lots of people seem to get h issues for example so I can see the use of something like that but overall I think many people are adding too many chemicals that the soil should be providing for longer. Forgive me if arent making my point clearer at thsi time, ist a6am, im pooped!

 

[OldMedMan]

well yeahh I dont mean them all of course, there are top ups to be made, I just mean that so many people seem to be adding ten different things to their soils every week nowadays whilst buying the latest greatest soil in the first place. That advanced nutrients stuff looks prety clever, they way it keeps yer ph steady and lots of people seem to get h issues for example so I can see the use of something like that but overall I think many people are adding too many chemicals that the soil should be providing for longer. Forgive me if arent making my point clearer at thsi time, ist a6am, im pooped!

OK 3lions Here''s my take. Great soil, say like FFOF has a ton of nutes built into it when it's new and after about the end of the third or fourth week the plant has literally used them up. Plants really need nutes of all kinds to stay healthy and growing properly. So we ad what's been used up.

Soils like Miracle Grow comes with time released nutes and If you grow with it works as long as the grower knows this, however you really don't know how long the nutes last. Some are used up and some last longer. Some people do well with it and some don't..even this soil needs nutes sooner or later.

Look at Hydro growers, the grow is nutes.

So we do need them for healthy good growing plants and great yields .
My two cents.

 

[3lions]

Hey guys, yeahh I aggree with you both totally.

I just think that many people are using too many and too much basically. Adding up to 8 different feeds/enhancements I see regularly every other watering. Now that isnt the soil running out of nutes every few weeks. If you are adding 6 different things how do you really know which is the one that is making the difference? Yes I think testing yourself is definately the way to go and Im really looking forward to doing some genuine comparison tests over the next few years

 

[OldMedMan]

Hey guys, yeahh I aggree with you both totally.

I just think that many people are using too many and too much basically. Adding up to 8 different feeds/enhancements I see regularly every other watering. Now that isnt the soil running out of nutes every few weeks. If you are adding 6 different things how do you really know which is the one that is making the difference? Yes I think testing yourself is definately the way to go and Im really looking forward to doing some genuine comparison tests over the next few years

I totally agree. That's just plain over kill. Kinda ridiculous

 

[Hypo Hippy]

the reason i asked about the cal mag +,was i have seen a lot of posts with people adding calmag.the bottle says to use it every feeding @ 1tsp per gal, i don't want to over do it.the next grow i'm going to try h&g soil a & b(with ffof),see if i can't simplify all the additives. im also going to try dwc Deep Water Culture,see how bad i can screw it up,lol
seems like there's a lot of "VODOO" mixing all this stuff up.

 

[ChicagoJoe]

i dont know why, but most basic nutes do not have the ca and mg needed to support this plant thru it's life.

subcool has a nifty looking soil recipe that starts with a base of high quality soil and has things added to it like bag guano and worm poop and dolomite lime and epsom salts, etc etc. they use this super soil (which is very hot) in the bottom of their containers and claim to use only water throughout the entire grow. Google it up, it's a great read.

 

[3lions]

I don't think tho that calmag is supposed to be added as a regular feed. It is usually added as a cure for problems that are caused by something else, often ph issues. Therefore adding correctives isnt really solving the problem. Also Ca and Mg will be present in most tap waters.

Of course yes, adding one thing certainly affects another thing which can I suspect compound the problem also.

I am really a newbie with growing cannabis of course and dont have the experience to comment on many things but I do like to be logical about stuff. Of course if we all get to where we want to go it doesnt really matter how we get there



ooh, sorry Chicago, we crossed posts then.

i dont know why, but most basic nutes do not have the ca and mg needed to support this plant thru it's life.

That would seem to be the case if people are needing to add it so regularly and I dont understand why. I did mention that these should be present in most tap water so in theory they should get that via water anyway, perhaps this is why. I guess I went round in circles now cos originally I was just thinking that the soil isnt producing enough of this if it is needing to be added so much. lol

 

[MountainHigh]

I don't think tho that calmag is supposed to be added as a regular feed. It is usually added as a cure for problems that are caused by something else, often ph issues. Therefore adding correctives isnt really solving the problem. Also Ca and Mg will be present in most tap waters.

Of course yes, adding one thing certainly affects another thing which can I suspect compound the problem also.

I am really a newbie with growing cannabis of course and dont have the experience to comment on many things but I do like to be logical about stuff. Of course if we all get to where we want to go it doesnt really matter how we get there



ooh, sorry Chicago, we crossed posts then.


That would seem to be the case if people are needing to add it so regularly and I dont understand why. I did mention that these should be present in most tap water so in theory they should get that via water anyway, perhaps this is why. I guess I went round in circles now cos originally I was just thinking that the soil isnt producing enough of this if it is needing to be added so much. lol

I think it is more probably the specific needs for calcium which is a macro nute (needed in relatively large quantities) and magnesium which is a micro nute (only tiny amounts are necessary and/or recommended) and for proper uptake (avoiding a nutrient lockout) the two need to be in balance. Cal-Mag which is in proper balance is a supplement, not a curative.

And it is possible that calcium and magnesium cause the decay of other nutrients in solution is why the "correct" amount isn't added, but more likely they take into account that tap water is an unknown, whether it has calcium even or not...calcium isn't a given in tap water, just a likelihood. And sometimes it comes with so many other particulates and other mineral's as to be harmful to your grow. In those cases people filter or buy water.

So instead of adding something that with tap water may force toxic levels of calcium and or magnesium to buildup, they simply let you buy it as another supplement (if and only if needed)...that is where my head takes me when I think about it.

Anyway, I use blackstrap molasses for cal-mag, feeds the beneficials in the soil and is a source of organic calcium and magnesium and a host of other micro nutes.

 

[3lions]

Excellent.. okay I understand it more then now. When I throw these things out there I am really still trying to make sense of it all of course.

In our own bodies Calcium and Magnesium work hand in hand too, contraction and relaxation of our muscles etc so I would suspect that it has similar properties for plants also. I think milk has magnesium in it if I remember right about 7/1 ratio, I wonder if that would work well. Id like to know the ratios of the cal mag.

Macronutrients: N, K, Ca, Mg, P, and S
Micronutrients: Cl, Fe, B, Mn, Zn, Cu, Mo, and Ni

Suggest that they are both in fact macro tho

Molasses would be very high in Vit B which would be a clear benefit.

The tap water part makes sense of course what you say. In the same vein tho if this is different in all water supplies then any suppliments cannot actually suit all waters. Hmmmm. Its actually quite complicated the more you delve, maybe I will stop haha

Tho if you do have to use it as a supliment the other nutes are not good enough

was supposed to have a ? on the end I notice

 

[Woodsman]

I'm just sitting back and taking it all in! Much beyond my current knwledge so don't mind if I just listen!

'Learning in process!'

 

[3lions]

Me also definately, Mountain is a mountain of good information for sure! I love soaking it all up.

 

[ChicagoJoe]

One of my favorite sayings:

listen to learn
learn to listen

 

[MountainHigh]

Excellent.. okay I understand it more then now. When I throw these things out there I am really still trying to make sense of it all of course.

In our own bodies Calcium and Magnesium work hand in hand too, contraction and relaxation of our muscles etc so I would suspect that it has similar properties for plants also. I think milk has magnesium in it if I remember right about 7/1 ratio, I wonder if that would work well. Id like to know the ratios of the cal mag.

Macronutrients: N, K, Ca, Mg, P, and S
Micronutrients: Cl, Fe, B, Mn, Zn, Cu, Mo, and Ni

Suggest that they are both in fact macro tho

Molasses would be very high in Vit B which would be a clear benefit.

The tap water part makes sense of course what you say. In the same vein tho if this is different in all water supplies then any suppliments cannot actually suit all waters. Hmmmm. Its actually quite complicated the more you delve, maybe I will stop haha

was supposed to have a ? on the end I notice

Yeah I checked and Mg is considered a macro nute...the ratio is about 3.5 x mg = calcium or so it appears from the supplements.

I was thinking there was a difference in the two and it isn't in their overall need (micro/macro) it is in their mobility. Magnesium can be robbed from the other foliage to feed the new tops if there is a shortage, but calcium isn't mobile so root uptake issues with it and deficiencies will directly effect leaf and bud production on the new foliage.

Anyway, I never mind being corrected...I tend to space so I make mistakes... Knowledge is power bro.



One more nutrient you are missing from the list and I think it is consider macro is Silicon (Si). Needs added to hydro if not enough is in the nutes.

 

[Woodsman]

Update - Flower Day 50

Quick update on the ladies.

It's now 7 weeks and a day since 12/12. Just got through doing a full strength nute feed consisting of FFTB and Cal/Mag. Not sure if it will be the last nutes for Fatleaf at this point. I'd hate to say it was and then have to do it again! I did that on my last grow.

Alright here is the situation:
Fatleaf's trichomes are mostly cloudy with still some clear ones present (no amber yet and this is an indica dominant strain). She has been eating up her leaves for the last two weeks already. Originally this may have been from a pH issue, deficiency or something. But now it is definitly a natural progression in her growth, why? It looks like a plant that is close to harvest. Wondering though if I'm on track at this rate? I'm sure there is no set timetable for trichome 'color progression' as every strain or for that matter plant can be different. I'm just seeing Fatleaf a week from now with only a few green leaves and maybe not yet 'ambered up' enough. Should I be concerned or not? That's why I thinking that this may (or should) be the last nute feed and from here on just flushing. Big Girl is coming along very nicely and now has just as much 'frosting' as Fatleaf. Her leaves are in better shape compared to Fatleaf. Her Trichomes are very similar, percentage wise. She may or may not be done with here nutes also. Of course I'd hate to starve them both prematurely and on the other hand, I want to make sure they get a good flush. The Runt is now starting to frost up and is getting fatter everyday. She is still a week or two behind (leaning towards the two weeks).

I'll try to post some pics either today or tomorrow showing Fatleaf's foliage and also the other two (several chores left for me to do today and some important appointments scheduled for tomorrow)

Thanks as always folks, I'm sure I'll be getting some great advise! Please continue with your discussion about nutes!

 

[Woodsman]

Here are the photos I've promised showing Fatleaf for the most part and her yellowing leaves. At 7 weeks from 12/12 and with no amber trichomes in evidence yet (mostly cloudy with some clear), is this alright in your opinions?

Fatleaf

Fatleaf

Fatleaf

Fatleaf's Main Cola

Big Girl (left side) and the Runt (right side) This is not the best photo to view yellow leaves as they all look yellow in the photo! Big Girl has a few and I don't really have any issues with her as far as that goes. The Runt has no yellow leaves and continues to be a maintenance free lady (the best kind). She is just slow (not too bad either!)

 

[NorCaliwood]

Dude they look great for smaller plants. Not sure what your grow space is, but these are sharp plants. Leaves doing as they should. Any idea on recommend time? They seem to have abit of Indo in them hense faster flowering. Hope the smoke screams....

 

[OldMedMan]

Woodsman, norcaliwood is right

To me she is just beginning to eat herself. A week maybe two weeks or longer,
but go by the trichs. Depending on the high you want, at about 30 to 40% amber flush her good, put her in the dark at least 24 hours (some say longer) and then let her dry out for a few days and chop.

Side note: If you are wondering about why I did not do that with Bubblelicious.
Today was the first time I actually checked her trichs and they were dark amber, so she had probably been ready for a while. It was do it now time. As for the chemical taste, I will never notice because most of my taste buds are gone. Actually it was my bad for not taking her seriously.

 

[3lions]

It is common for these Northern Lights to take 8-9 weeks as oppose to the seed folks claims of 7 weeks. They do use super optimum conditions that are the same for every plant, like a production company in many ways, hmm, or like McDonalds cows lol