Utopian Sub v2 - You, Me, and Barney's Farm Makes 3 - Perpetual 2000w

Re: Papa Green's Utopian Sub v2 - You, Me, and Barney's Farm makes 3 - Perpetual 2000

yep, my go to, is always a diesel of some sort....just where i gravitate....eve. i still havent figured out...the thai and haze are also great for me....like go fast naturally....he likes them all, so is no hellp, fond of pineapple kush tho, i like it also, but its not really a kush tho, its a sativa, but i guess the person that named it called it that....or so the books say...it has alot of indica in it, but is hard to get size out of, so we are still wondering around that one...the jack i use both ways...excellent up and down....im also thinking of doing a continental thing, each continent has its own strain(s), usually sativa tho...havent been able to get the yuang from china yet tho...to try...but alot of others...what have you read about thcv....i have one in mind that is crazy with them, and looks good also, but another sativa....an african strain...later, L:popcorn:

First: "...he likes them all, so is no hellp..." had me rolling! :rofl: How's the hand, btw?

Second: I really had not done much reading on them, and thanks VERY MUCH for pointing me in that direction. I'm just starting to get into it and its fascinating. I had heard a little about the research in Europe, and this fills in some major gaps.

As I understand it the THCV is a different cannabinoid that's been isolated, as well as its receptors. Its directly related to Diabetes and the Munchies. It works to inhibit the GABA in one's brain. I know GABA is an energy and feel good hormone/supplement. Also, according to Wikipedia, the THCV actually works to LIMIT the effects of THC. Its an antagonist.

THCV is also used as a marker to distinguish synthetic THC like Marinol from naturally occurring THC.

Lastly, here's a long quote from Wikipedia that may or may not be interesting:

Cannabinoid receptor antagonist

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

(Redirected from Discovery and development of Cannabinoid Receptor 1 Antagonists)
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The discovery of the endogenous cannabinoid system led to the development of CB1 receptor antagonists. The first cannabinoid receptor "antagonist," rimonabant, was described in 1994. Rimonabant blocks the CB1 receptor selectively and it has been shown to decrease food intake and regulate body-weight gain. The prevalence of obesity worldwide is increasing dramatically and has a great impact on public health. The lack of efficient and well-tolerated drugs to cure obesity has led to an increased interest in research and development of cannabinoid antagonists.[1][2]
Contents

History

100px-Cannabis_flowering.jpg


Cannabis plant

For centuries hashish and marijuana from the Indian hemp Cannabis sativa L. have been used for their medicinal and recreational purposes.[3][4] In 1840, Schlesinger S. was apparently the first investigator to obtain an active extract from the leaves and flowers of hemp.[5] A few years later, in 1848, Decourtive E. described the preparation of an ethanol extract that on evaporation of the solvent gave a dark resin, which he named "cannabin".[6][1]. In 1964 the main active constituent of C. sativa L., Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), was isolated and synthesized by Mechoulam's laboratory.[3][7] Two types of cannabinoid receptors, CB1 and CB2, responsible for the effects of THC were discovered and cloned in the early 1990s.[1][8] Once cannabinoid receptors had been discovered, it became important to establish whether their agonists occur naturally in the body. This search led to the discovery of the first endogenous cannabinoid (endocannabinoid), anandamide (arachidonoyl ethanolamide). Later on other endocannabinoids were found, for example 2-AG (2-arachidonoyl glycerol).[3] These findings raised further questions about the pharmacological and physiological role of the cannabinoid system. This revived the research on cannabinoid receptor antagonists which were expected to help answer these questions.[8] The use of the cannabinoid agonist, THC, in its many preparations to enhance appetite is a well known fact. This fact led to the logical extension that blocking of the cannabinoid receptors might be useful in decreasing appetite and food intake.[9] It was then discovered that the blockage of the CB1 receptor represented a new pharmacological target. The first specific CB1 receptor antagonist / inverse agonist was rimonabant, discovered in 1994.[8][9][10]
[edit] Endocannabinoids and their signaling system

The endogenous cannabinoid system includes cannabinoid receptors, their endogenous ligands (endocannabinoids) and enzymes for their synthesis and degradation.[11]
There are two main receptor types associated with the endocannabinoid signaling system; cannabinoid receptor 1 (CB1) and 2 (CB2). Both receptors are 7-transmembrane G-protein coupled receptors (GPCRs) which inhibit the accumulation of cyclic adenosine monophosphate within cells.[12][13] CB1 receptors are present in highest concentration in the brain but can also be found in the periphery. CB2 receptors are mostly located in the immune and haematopoietic systems.[1][12]
Endocannabinoids are eicosanoids acting as agonists for cannabinoid receptors and they occur naturally in the body.[7] Cannabinoid receptor-related processes are for example involved in cognition, memory, anxiety, control of appetite, emesis, motor behavior, sensory, autonomic and neuroendocrine responses, immune responses and inflammatory effects.[11] There are two well-characterized endocannabinoids located in the brain and periphery. The first identified was anandamide (arachidonoyl ethanolamide) and the second was 2-AG (2-arachidonoyl glycerol). Additional endocannabinoids include virodhamine (O-arachidonoyl ethanolamine), noladin ether (2-arachidonoyl glyceryl ether) and NADA (N-arachidonoyl dopamine).[12]
[edit] Mechanism of action

500px-Metabolic_effects_of_CB1_antagonism.png

Figure 1 Hypothetical model for the metabolic effects of CB1 receptor antagonists. (ECS=endocannabinoid system)

CB1 receptors are coupled through Gi/o proteins and inhibit adenylyl cyclase and activate mitogen-activated protein (MAP) kinase. In addition, CB1 receptors inhibit presynaptic N- and P/Q-type calcium channels and activate inwardly rectifying potassium channels. [3][9] CB1 antagonists produce inverse cannabimimetic effects that are opposite in direction from those produced by agonists for these receptors.[3][14]
CB1 receptors are highly expressed in hypothalamic areas which are involved in central food intake control and feeding behavior. This strongly indicates that the cannabinoid system is directly involved in feeding regulation. These regions are also interconnected with the mesolimbic dopamine pathway, the so-called "reward" system. Therefore, CB1 antagonists might indirectly inhibit the dopamine-mediated rewarding properties of food.[12][14] Peripheral CB1 receptors are located in the gastrointestinal (GI) tract, liver and in adipose tissue. In the GI, CB1 receptors are located on nerve terminals in the intestines. Endocannabinoids act at the CB1 receptors to increase hunger and promote feeding and it is speculated that they decrease intestinal peristalsis and gastric emptying. Thus, antagonism at these receptors can inverse these effects.[12] Also, in peripheral tissues, antagonism of CB1 receptors increases insulin sensitivity and oxidation of fatty acids in muscles and the liver.[1] A hypothetical scheme for the metabolic effects of CB1 receptor antagonists is shown in Figure 1.
Drug design

The first approach to develop cannabinoid antagonists in the late 1980s was to modify the structure of THC but the results were disappointing. In the early 1990s new family of cannabinoid agonists was discovered from the NSAID (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory) drug pravadoline which led to the discovery of aminoalkyl indole antagonists with some but limited success. As the search based on the structure of agonists was disappointing it was no surprise that the first potent and selective cannabinoid antagonist belonged to an entirely new chemical family. In 1994 the first selective cannabinoid antagonist, SR141716 (rimonabant), was introduced by Sanofi belonging to a family of 1,5-diarylpyrazoles.[8][15]
Rimonabant

300px-Rimonabant_chemical_structure.png

Figure 2 Chemical structure of rimonabant

300px-Two_state_model_CB1_antagonists.png

Figure 3 Schematic representation of the two state-model of CB1 receptor activation, in which receptors are in equilibrium between two states, active and inactive (R* and R)

300px-Rimonabant_Pharmacophore.png

Figure 4 A general CB1 receptor inverse agonist pharmacophore model. Putative CB1 receptor amino acid side chain residues in receptor-ligand interaction are shown. Rimonabant is taken as a representative example below. The applied colors indicate the mutual properties with the general CB1 pharmacophore


Rimonabant, also known by the systematic name [N-(piperidin-1-yl)-5-(4-chlorophenyl)-1-(2,4-dichlorophenyl)-4-methyl-1 H-pyrazole-3-carboxamidehydrochloride)], is a 1,5-diarylpyrazole CB1 receptor antagonist (Figure 2).[15] Rimonabant is not only a potent and highly selective ligand of the CB1 receptor, but it is also orally active and antagonizes most of the effects of cannabinoid agonists, such as THC, both in vitro and in vivo. Rimonabant has shown clear clinical efficacy for the treatment of obesity.[16]
[edit] Binding

Binding of an agonist ligand to the CB1 receptor provokes a conformational change and leads to the active state of the receptor which is responsible for the signal transduction. However, there is an additional mechanism that can lead to the active state in the absence of ligand. As numerous other GPCRs, CB1 receptor displays a high level of constitutive activity and thus it can spontaneously adopt an active conformational state in the absence of agonist binding, keeping elevated basal levels of intracellular signaling.[17] This can be explained by the two state-model of receptor activation in which receptors are in equilibrium between two states, active and inactive (R* and R). An agonist will stabilize the active state leading to activation, a neutral antagonist binds equally to active and inactive states, whereas an inverse agonist will preferentially stabilize the inactive state (Figure 3).[17]
Rimonabant has been reported in many cases to behave as an inverse agonist rather than as a neutral antagonist and it is likely that it binds preferentially to the inactive state of the CB1, thereby decreasing the activation of the signaling pathway.[18][19] The key binding interaction is a hydrogen bond formed between the carbonyl group of rimonabant and the Lys192 residue of the CB1 receptor. This bond stabilizes the Lys192-Asp366 salt bridge of the intracellular end of transmembrane helices 3 and 6 (Figure 4). This specific salt bridge is present in the inactive state of the receptor but absent in the active state.[18][19]
In the inactive state of CB1 rimonabant binds within the transmembrane-3-4-5-6 aromatic microdomain. The binding of rimonabant involves direct aromatic stacking interactions between its 2,4-dichlorophenyl ring and the Trp279/Phe200/Trp356 residues on the one side and the para-chlorophenyl ring and the Tyr275/Trp255/Phe278 residues on the other side. The lipophilic piperidinyl moiety fits nicely in a cavity formed by the amino acid residues Val196/Phe170/Leu387 and Met384 (Figure 4).[18][16][17][20]
[edit] Pharmacophore

Most CB1 antagonists reported so far are close analogs or isosteres of rimonabant.[21] A general CB1 inverse agonist pharmacophore model can be extracted from the common features of these analogs, diarylpyrazoles (Figure 4).[18] This pharmacophore contains a cyclic core, C, (e.g. pyrazole in rimonabant) substituted by two aromatic moieties, A and B. A hydrogen bond acceptor unit, D, connects C with a cyclic lipophilic part, E. In some cases unit E directly connects to C.[18][21] In Figure 4 rimonabant is used as an example. Unit A represents a 4-chlorophenyl group and unit B a 2,4-dichlorophenyl ring. Unit C is the central pyrazole ring and unit D represents the carbonyl group which serves as the hydrogen bond acceptor. Unit E represents a lipophilic aminopiperidinyl moiety.[18]
[edit] Structure-activity relationships

Optimal binding at the CB1 receptor requires a para-substituted phenyl ring at the pyrazole 5-position. The 5-substituent of the pyrazole is involved in receptor recognition and antagonism. The para-substituent of the phenyl ring could be chlorine, bromine or iodine, but it has been shown that an alkyl chain could also be tolerated.[18] Numbering of the central pyrazole ring is shown in Figure 2.
A 2,4-dichloro-substituted phenyl ring at the pyrazole 1-position is preferred for affinity as well as for the activity. It has been shown that additional halogens on this phenyl ring decrease affinity.[18]
It is also favorable to have a ring substitution at the 3-carboxamide group, such as the 1-piperidinyl group in rimonabant.[18] Replacement of the amino piperidinyl substituent by alkyl amides, ethers, ketones, alcohols or alkanes resulted mostly in decreased affinity. Replacement of the piperidinyl by pentyl or a heptyl chain gave the compounds agonistic properties. Based on these results it was concluded that the pyrazole 3-position seems to be involved in agonism, while the 1-,4-,5-positions appear to be involved in antagonism.[16]
Research has shown that the absence of the carboxamide oxygen results in decreased affinity. Furthermore, the presence of carboxamide oxygen contributes in conferring the inverse agonist properties, whereas analogs lacking this oxygen are found to be neutral antagonists. These results support the hypothesis that the carboxamide oxygen forms a hydrogen bond with Lys192 residue at the CB1 receptor.[22]
[edit] Diarylpyrazole derivatives

SR141716 (rimonabant) analogs have recently been described by several groups, leading to a good understanding of the structure-activity relationship (SAR) within this chemical group. While most compounds described are less potent than SR141716, two of them are worth mentioning, SR147778 and AM251.[2]
SR147778 (surinabant), a second generation antagonist, has a longer duration of action than rimonabant and enhanced oral activity. This enhanced duration of action is probably due to the presence of the more metabolically stable ethyl group at the 4-position of its pyrazole ring. Another change is the replacement of the 5-phenyl chlorine substituent by bromine.[2][18][23]
The diarylpyrazole derivative, AM251, has been described where chlorine substituent has been replaced by iodine in the para position of the 5-phenyl ring. This derivative appeared to be more potent and selective than rimonabant.[9][16]
21 analogs possessing either an alkyl amide or an alkyl hydrazide of variant lengths in position 3 were synthesized. It was observed that affinity increases with increased carbon chain length up to five carbons. Also the amide analogs exhibited higher affinity than hydrazide analogs. However, none of these analogs possessed significantly greater affinity than rimonabant but nevertheless, they were slightly more selective than rimonabant for the CB1 receptor over the CB2 receptor.[16]
Several attempts have been made to increase the affinity of the diarylpyrazole derivatives by rigidifying the structure of rimonabant. In terms of the general pharmacophore model the units A, B and/or C are connected by additional bonds leading to rigid molecules. For example the condensed polycyclic pyrazole NESS-0327 showed 5000 times more affinity for the CB1 receptor than rimonabant. However, this compound possesses a poor central bioavailability.[18][16]
Another compound, the indazole derivative O-1248, can be regarded as an analog of rimonabant wherein its 5-aryl group is fused to the pyrazole moiety. However, this structural modification resulted in a 67-fold decrease in CB1 receptor affinity.[18]
These diarylpyrazole derivatives of rimonabant are summarized in Table 1.
Table 1 Diarylpyrazole derivatives of rimonabant
200px-SR147778.png
200px-AM251_CB1_antagonist.png
SR147778 AM251
200px-NESS_0327.png
200px-O1248.png
NESS0327 O-1248 [edit] Other derivatives

Structurally different from the 1,5-diarylpyrazoles are the chemical series of the 3,4-diarylpyrazolines. Within this series is SLV-319 (ibipinabant), a potent CB1 antagonist which is about 1000-fold more selective for CB1 compared with CB2 and displays in vivo activity similar to rimonabant.[2][18]
Another approach used to develop analogs of rimonabant was to replace central pyrazole ring by another heterocycle. An example of this approach are 4,5-diarylimidazoles and 1,5-diarylpyrrole-3-carboxamides.[2]
A large number of fused bicyclic derivatives of diaryl-pyrazole and imidazoles have been reported. An example of these is a purine derivative where a pyrimidine ring is fused to an imidazole ring.[2] Otenabant (CP-945,598) is an example of a fused bicyclic derivative developed by Pfizer.[24]
Several research groups have studied six-membered ring pyrazole bioisosteres. For example one 2,3-diarylpyridine derivative was shown to be potent and selective CB1 inverse agonist. The structure of this compound demonstrates the possibility that the amide moiety of rimonabant could be split into a lipophilic (benzyloxy) and a polar (nitrile) functionality. Other six-membered ring analogs are for example pyrimidines and pyrazines.[2]
In addition to the five and six-membered ring analogs there are other cyclic derivatives such as the azetidines. One example is the methylsulfonamide azetidine derivative which has a 1,1-diaryl group that mimics the 1,5-diaryl moiety of the diarylpyrazoles. The sulfonyl group serves as a hydrogen bond acceptor. The 1,1-diaryl group is also present in derivatives such as the benzodioxoles and hydantoins.[2][18]
Acyclic analogs have also been reported. These analogs contain a 1,2-diaryl motif which corresponds to the 1,5-diaryl substituents of rimonabant.[2] An example of an acyclic analog is taranabant (MK-0364) developed by Merck.[24]
Representatives of these analogs are summarized in Table 2.
Table 2 Representatives of non-diarylpyrazole derivatives
116px-SLV319_CB1_derivative.png
184px-Diarylimidazole_derivative.png
200px-Diarylpyrrol_carboxamide_CB1_derivative.png
Type of
derivative 3,4-Diarylpyrazoline (SLV319) 4,5-Diarylimidazole 1,5-Diarylpyrrole-3-carboxamides
196px-Purine_CB1_derivative.png
200px-Otenabant_CP945598_CB1_antagonist.png
200px-2_3_diarylpyridine_CB1_derivative.png
Type of
derivative Purine (pyrimidine ring
fused to an imidazole ring) Purine derivative (Otenabant) 2,3-Diarylpyridine
200px-Pyrimidine_CB1_derivative.png
200px-Pyrazine_CB1_derivative.png
200px-Azetidine_CB1_derivative.png
Type of
derivative Pyrimidine Pyrazine Methylsulfonamide
azetidine
200px-Benzodioxoles_CB1_derivative.png
200px-Hydantoin_CB1_derivative.png
200px-Taranabant_MK0364_CB1_antagonist.png
Type of
derivative Benzodioxole Hydantoin Acyclic derivative
(Taranabant) Current status

Rimonabant (Acomplia) has been approved in the European Union (EU) since June 2006 for the treatment of obesity. On 23rd of October 2008 the European Medicines Agency (EMEA) has recommended the suspension of the marketing authorization across the EU for Acomplia from Sanofi-Aventis based on the risk of serious psychiatric disorders.[25] On 5th of November 2008 Sanofi-Aventis announced discontinuation of rimonabant clinical development program.[26]
Sanofi-Aventis has also discontinued development of surinabant (SR147778), a CB1 receptor antagonist for smoking cessation (31st of October 2008).[27]
Merck has stated in its press release on 2nd of October 2008 that they will not seek regulatory approval for taranabant (MK-0364) to treat obesity and will discontinue its Phase III clinical development program. Data from Phase III clinical trial showed that greater efficacy and more adverse effects were associated with the higher doses of taranabant and it was determined that the overall profile of taranabant does not support further development for obesity.[28]
Another pharmaceutical company, Pfizer, terminated the Phase III development program for its obesity compound otenabant (CP-945,598), a selective antagonist of the CB1 receptor. According to Pfizer their decision was based on changing regulatory perspectives on the risk/benefit profile of the CB1 class and likely new regulatory requirements for approval.[29]

:peace::nicethread:
 
Re: Papa Green's Utopian Sub v2 - You, Me, and Barney's Farm makes 3 - Perpetual 2000

Wow! Papa! :cheertwo:

Your expect us Stoner's to understand that ???? :reading420magazine:

What I got from it was, most of the experimentation with inhibitors has been canceled for one reason or another. If there are things that can actually influence: Smoking tobacco, obesity, diabetes, and other things, we should continue, however the side effects are not good.

Then there is the fact that some receptors, like alcohol are genetic and passed to our children. If you parents were alcoholics, then the children are at great risk to be alcoholics too. Cancer is the same way, its carried in the gene.

I always hoped that we could do something to control receptors, but it looks like a long fight!
 
Re: Papa Green's Utopian Sub v2 - You, Me, and Barney's Farm makes 3 - Perpetual 2000

Have you thought of a vertical ScrOG or a Box of Green style?

Great suggestion if your On a quest for maximization. Great suggestion indeed.

Talk about an overhual though. Mostly mental. I think If that was your first SCRoG, you should try it agin, and this time raise the screen and shorten veg time. Let the plants get alot of tops, and then bloom and LST immediatly, and then weave the SCRoG while they stretch to even the canopy......I'm sure this is all flashback for you man, but I thought I'd go there...

...and keep similar stretch strains in each screen. Make a screen for each area allotted for each strain/plant. Thats a big help, because if your plant has exceeded it's given "Square" of space any weaker branches/Suckers are pinched or cut off.

....um, yea, thats were my head went........sorry....just spewing the info...:bravo::nicethread::peace::yahoo:
 
Re: Papa Green's Utopian Sub v2 - You, Me, and Barney's Farm makes 3 - Perpetual 2000

hey there papa green :) a ery good journal may i say :) +++reps, one thing im a tad confused about is how much lighting your using, just as its split up in different stages of cycle, i just finished my first grow, i think u popped by, im starting a new grow, very soon, also like you using eutopia haze, 5x. thinking of the sea of green method this time. i can build my grow room perfectly to suit the system il be using this time, iv only got 1x 600watt hps though do you think this will be enough for the flowering of 5 plants? il be using a 600 metal halide for the veg and thinking of the room being 1.2x 1.2x 6.somethin m lol
 
Re: Papa Green's Utopian Sub v2 - You, Me, and Barney's Farm makes 3 - Perpetual 2000

Wow! Papa! :cheertwo:

Your expect us Stoner's to understand that ???? :reading420magazine:

What I got from it was, most of the experimentation with inhibitors has been canceled for one reason or another. If there are things that can actually influence: Smoking tobacco, obesity, diabetes, and other things, we should continue, however the side effects are not good.

Then there is the fact that some receptors, like alcohol are genetic and passed to our children. If you parents were alcoholics, then the children are at great risk to be alcoholics too. Cancer is the same way, its carried in the gene.

I always hoped that we could do something to control receptors, but it looks like a long fight!

Thanks! I was hoping someone would explain it to me!

:peace:
 
Re: Papa Green's Utopian Sub v2 - You, Me, and Barney's Farm makes 3 - Perpetual 2000

Great suggestion if your On a quest for maximization. Great suggestion indeed.

Talk about an overhual though. Mostly mental. I think If that was your first SCRoG, you should try it agin, and this time raise the screen and shorten veg time. Let the plants get alot of tops, and then bloom and LST immediatly, and then weave the SCRoG while they stretch to even the canopy......I'm sure this is all flashback for you man, but I thought I'd go there...

...and keep similar stretch strains in each screen. Make a screen for each area allotted for each strain/plant. Thats a big help, because if your plant has exceeded it's given "Square" of space any weaker branches/Suckers are pinched or cut off.

....um, yea, thats were my head went........sorry....just spewing the info...:bravo::nicethread::peace::yahoo:

You're spot on I think. I need to split the difference between this and my usual scrog. I was trying for 12-16" tops and I got 24" tops. The Utopia Haze caught me off guard - she just did not stop stretching. This time I'm ready for that. Clones of this gal so I know what to expect. Gonna try for the 12-16" again, and if it seems like there's even a possibility it might go above that I'm gonna put a trellis above the scrog.

hey there papa green :) a ery good journal may i say :) +++reps, one thing im a tad confused about is how much lighting your using, just as its split up in different stages of cycle, i just finished my first grow, i think u popped by, im starting a new grow, very soon, also like you using eutopia haze, 5x. thinking of the sea of green method this time. i can build my grow room perfectly to suit the system il be using this time, iv only got 1x 600watt hps though do you think this will be enough for the flowering of 5 plants? il be using a 600 metal halide for the veg and thinking of the room being 1.2x 1.2x 6.somethin m lol

Thanks! 600 is definitely enough for 5 great plants. I have a bunch of lights going all the time. Prolly not as efficient as it could be, but its not terrible. I use T5 and CFLs in Veg. I used to have a MH conv but it burned out and I've since moved that ballast to flowering. The MH worked great as well. I really like the mixed spectrum of cfls or t5.

I have 3x600 going in the flower area. The tricky part I've found is trying to maximize flexibility. I'm always experimenting and have different strains and cycles, so its been important to have 3 distinct areas. Now I'm narrowing my selections and growing 6-10 of one strain at a time instead of 2-3 of 4 strains. That was all part of the plan, as they say. I tested a bunch of strains and methods to start. Have narrowed it to a few of each I like. And now time to refine.

For yours - it sounds like you're planning a square. If you can really build to suit, and you want to allow for expansion - I would think in terms of a rectangle. Only because most hoods aren't square and you may want to add a light mover. The ones for ~$120 are a great investment. With your 600 you could easily fill a space 1x1.5 with great light and go to 1x2 with very good light. Any bigger than that would be tough.

This brings up something I've wrestled with alot. The breeder's estimates vs that 1g/w goal. If the breeders estimate is 550g/m2 and I do a 600 over a 1m2 area - theoretically I will never reach the 1g/w. So its just something to think about. You've gotta exceed the breeder's estimates for density to get 1g/w. I've succeded in beeting their density twice in a row, but didn't have the 1m2 filled. Now that I have the 1m2, the light is more spread and its harder to hit the density. So anyways - the long and short of it is to get 1g/w with a single 600 is really tricky. Match the shape of your grow space to your hood - or vice versa.

hey papa you go it going on:)
Thanks, bro. Workin hard at hardly workin!
Right on! Thanks!

------------

OK folks, updates may be a little spotty for the next day or two - hitting the road for Phish.

:peace::headbang:
 
Re: Papa Green's Utopian Sub v2 - You, Me, and Barney's Farm makes 3 - Perpetual 2000

thanks papa G, that was most definatly one of the best replys iv ever had :) and as for the breeders recomended, i thought that was genraly fiction, (impossable to hit there 550g psqM) but obviously not, its encouraging to see people hitting and exeding the guided yields, and i would be over the moon with 0.5g per watt. when my first grow yielded aprox 100g dry off my 600watt with breeders recomended was 500g per sqM (barneys blue cheese) :( 0.17g per watt or there abouts, gota get better than that lol, your journal is Ace by the way
 
Re: Papa Green's Utopian Sub v2 - You, Me, and Barney's Farm makes 3 - Perpetual 2000

great job dude!

ENJOY...lavendar

Have a great time!:cheertwo:
Thanks all!

thanks papa G, that was most definatly one of the best replys iv ever had :) and as for the breeders recomended, i thought that was genraly fiction, (impossable to hit there 550g psqM) but obviously not, its encouraging to see people hitting and exeding the guided yields, and i would be over the moon with 0.5g per watt. when my first grow yielded aprox 100g dry off my 600watt with breeders recomended was 500g per sqM (barneys blue cheese) :( 0.17g per watt or there abouts, gota get better than that lol, your journal is Ace by the way

Thanks much! Don't worry about your first results. Sounds like you're using good honest numbers. And if you keep being honest with yourself, the rest will fall into place. I find one of the hardest things is being honest with myself. When I see a few amber tris - I wanna harvest but I gotta remind myself not to. Also, and I think this one is big - in the garden it does not pay to procrastinate. If I know I am going to have to do something for a plant - it is much better to have that something ready when the plant needs it, than wait til its a problem. Again, I think you are right on top of that stuff.

Hang in there - I bet you see your yields go up very quickly.

-------------------

Quick update:

First, I went to start chopping, and I found a little of the Jack Herer plant from the scrog I had not chopped. So I chopped it last nite to give the other stuff another day.

I'm gonna be in harvest hell this week I can tell. Gonna be a straight week of trimming. Boooooring.

Quick report on the Phish shows and the smoke there. I met folks with some good smoke at all the shows. I, of course, had a nice variety. The first nite in Raleigh was probably one of the best shows I've ever seen. The sound at Walnut Creek is amazing! They advertise CD quality sound, and it really is. And the second set was one for the ages.

It was fun to share my weed. I rolled a good number of joints for each show, would take a few hits on it then start passing. Sometimes they came back, sometimes not. The first nite I was sharing with one guy next to me, who seemed like a nice kid. He was smart enough to sit down before he fell down. There was another who got on the train and he did the plop. His legs just went and he plopped down cross-legged. He was fine. The third casualty went down harder. Did the full on "I'm dancing and jumping - oh wait - I'm falling - I'll grab the back of the gal in front of me and pull her down as well." So yeah, he took down a few civilians. He was fine though. Nice lawn. Everyone laughed.

I widened the circle the second nite, so I didn't see any real casualties. Heheheh, they just didn't realize that I smoke ALL the TIME and that each joint was a salad. Kali-Mist, AK-47, Volde and Northern Lights in each joint. Heheheheh.

The guy I hung out with second nite had his own that he had grown and it was very good as well. He had G13 and Green Crack. So we pretty much kept about 30 people high as a kite for the entire show. It was nice. Naked chicks. Spontaneous kisses from the girls. Great weather. Great lawn.

Show notes from Raleigh:

  • First Time Loves A Hero since 12/31/02 New York
  • First Have Mercy since 12/10/99 Philadelphia, PA
  • First Light Up Or Leave Me Alone since 12/30/99 Big Cypress, FL
Show Notes from Charlotte:


:Hookah::MoreNutes::tokin:
 
Re: Papa Green's Utopian Sub v2 - You, Me, and Barney's Farm makes 3 - Perpetual 2000

Hey papa GREAT THREAD,how much amber do you like in your tris before you chop?:thumb::surf:

Thanks! I like as much amber as I can get before I start seeing over-ripe. Basically if I see 50% I'm thrilled. This Jack I found last nite - it was woven in amongst the others - it had an extra 10 days, and its about 70% amber and it looks great to me. As long as there are still white hairs, I don't even bother checking tris. Once all the hairs are brown, then I keep an eye on it. As the leaves start to change, then I really pay attention. Its ok for the leaves to change, but I don't like to see any of that brown creep to the bud leaves.

From there its pretty much a waiting game. I wait as long as I can, and almost always wait an extra day or two. Once they're flushed, I just don't see any harm. I've waited weeks after flushing. Even a week one time with no water.

Basically I wait til I have plants that HAVE to go in to replace them, or when I know they have fattened as much as possible. I just find they keep getting better and better as long as I wait. I have never had a plant that I thought was over-ripe. And my patients all prefer the 50% stuff as well.

I would wait longer but after 50% basically for every one that goes amber, an amber one is going over ripe. And I definitely do not like the effects of decayed THC.

So there you have it - a completely circular way of saying - as much amber as I can get.

:MoreNutes::tokin:
 
Re: Papa Green's Utopian Sub v2 - You, Me, and Barney's Farm makes 3 - Perpetual 2000

Man, I hadn't really smoked any yet today. Not really sure why - just doing things and didn't think about it. Just came in for a first bong hit. Zowza I grow some stony weed! I am so used to smoking from wake til sleep, I sometimes forget. I am BAKED right now off one large binger. Not even sure which strain it was.

:tokin:
 
Re: Papa Green's Utopian Sub v2 - You, Me, and Barney's Farm makes 3 - Perpetual 2000

THX papa,well said,I'm going to wait on some plants to see how it goes.:thumb::surf:

Yeah, I think you will be surprised. I know I am every time. Its painful to cut them. They always seem like they're getting better right up to the last second. Its easy to test the earlier stuff.

Per the post above, I just got really baked, so I'll spew a little more pseudo-wisdom. Not directed at anyone in particular - and I'd be curious to hear other folks' thoughts on the subject.

When I take a test clipping, I make sure to take enough that it will last a day or two. I trim and speed dry it. Either an envelope on a cable box, or hanging near an ac/de-humidifier/heater. Whatever. Anything that will dry it overnight. Then I give it an overnight cure as well. Both need to be in the dark. The test clipping will be a little more harsh than the rest of the plant because it may or may not have been flushed, and faster dry and cure is harsher as well - but the effects will be representative. I find that if I don't allow this two-day process, then a test smoke is deceiving because of the chlorophyll.

Another way is using a vapo. I am still verifying this myself, but after 2 cycles it does indeed seem like you can pretty much clip and put it right in the vapo. That gives you a snapshot of JUST the good stuff. For me I have to make sure I haven't smoked in a few hours before the vapo, because its such a subtle thing when the effects hit I need to be able to tell. Not like a bong hit. But a half hour later the effects of both are the same. And I guess that's what I'm always looking for.

More stony rant: One of the main reasons, if not THE reason I started growing again was because I kept buying weed that was not ripe. I would take 3 bong hits and feel un-requited. It would just be like smoking 3 cigarettes fast. OK taste and look to the smoke, but zero effect after 15 minutes. This is a result of an early harvest. The commercial Hydro growers want to chop a week or two early so they can get an extra cycle or two per year. Its crap.

On the other hand, I believe there is a time and a place for chopping early to get less amber. Some folks like their very strong strain watered down a little for daytime use. With limited space and resources, this totally makes sense. Its no excuse for a commercial grower.

I'm no commercial grower, and I only give smoke to about 5 other patients. We all prefer to get a nice plant with lower THC and grow it to 50% than get one with high THC and grow it to 20%.

Its all about that lasting high for me. I like to smoke a hit and be good for at least an hour or two. With bud that's harvested early, the initial high is fun, but it doesn't last more than 15 minutes.

LAST THOUGHT: All that having been said - each strain has different shades of Amber. Some have a very light amber and some are very dark. I wait til I see what the amber will look like on each plant, and most important: I don't really look for amber tops - I look for amber stalks. When the stalks start going ANY shade of amber and shriveling a little that tells me those are over-ripe. There will usually be a few early tris that go amber then over-ripe early, so I use those to judge the rest of the plant.

:peacetwo::tokin:
 
Re: Papa Green's Utopian Sub v2 - You, Me, and Barney's Farm makes 3 - Perpetual 2000

Hey Papa, sorry I missed you on your Walnut Creek visit, we're not far, but spent the 4th at the coast.

Bored trimming? hmmm, I wish I had that problem :cool:

:peace:
 
Re: Papa Green's Utopian Sub v2 - You, Me, and Barney's Farm makes 3 - Perpetual 2000

I had a little time to kill so I figured some pics of the outdoor stuff was appropriate. I really have done less than nothing to help these plants. In fact, the Utopia Haze stayed in that little pot for prolly 10 days longer than she shoulda - that's why she's a little small.

Here's the Volde:
volde_outside1.jpg

And a long shot. All tucked in with her tomato friends and other weeds.
volde_long_shot.jpg

Here's some of the Utopia Haze. This is how she started:
UH_top_day_2.jpg


And here she is now - 7G pot:
UH_outside_side.jpg

UH_outside_ohead.jpg

UH_outside_side2.jpg

:yummy:

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And the veggies I planted for cover are even doing their thing:
veggies.jpg


And now -- the lights come on in 5 minutes and I shall go commence a choppin!

:slide::tokin::peacetwo:
 
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