Un-Lucky Queen 12/12 Hempy

DocBud said:
Well, let's see if we can figure it out.

What's your medium?
What kind of water?
what kind of nutes?

Also, are the plants healthy and growing?
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What's your medium? perlite only
What kind of water? distilled
what kind of nutes? osmocote+, CalMag Plus, hygrozyme (had been including some Floralicious bloom and superthrive but have cut that out at your advice).

They've had rough patch here lately due to a calcium deficiency, but, after going to CalMag (instead of epsom salts) a week ago they've made some decent improvement, but, they're not exactly thriving. I know that I need to be patient and not stress out unnecessarily, but, this pH issue kind of has me on edge. Using the regular GH pH up and down solutions to adjust.

Any thoughts you have would be much appreciated.
 
GrownManHollr said:
What's your medium? perlite only
What kind of water? distilled
what kind of nutes? osmocote+, CalMag Plus, hygrozyme (had been including some Floralicious bloom and superthrive but have cut that out at your advice).

They've had rough patch here lately due to a calcium deficiency, but, after going to CalMag (instead of epsom salts) a week ago they've made some decent improvement, but, they're not exactly thriving. I know that I need to be patient and not stress out unnecessarily, but, this pH issue kind of has me on edge. Using the regular GH pH up and down solutions to adjust.
Any thoughts you have would be much appreciated.
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Well, it all sounds pretty good. The only thing I can think of regarding the pH swing is the distilled water. You can't get an accurate measurement of pH in distilled water and the stuff you're adding may not be soluble enough to help the meter get a good reading.

I'd say try tap water for a while. The Osmocote has calcium and magnesium...the supplementing you've done already should pull them through that. pH the tapwater down to 5.8 or so......

they'll pull through bro. These plants are tough.
 
I think there may be a compatibility problem between Osmocote and pure perlite. I have an 6" pot with pure perlite that I top-dressed with OC+ a couple of days ago.

Today, there are chunks of perlite on the surface that have turned blue. These are probably copper salts. It could be that pure perlite may wick the salts out of the prills faster than intended.

Either that, or the white perlite just makes the salts easily visible, but I researched to see if I could find anything and found this:

"Lately for example I understood that Osmocote doesn't go too well with perlite, as this seems to retain the osm salts and poison the plants (like many other porous materials?). But I saw this on my sand/perlite mix, where the roots were probably looking for the perlite to absorb water. I changed the soil to a new mix of sand/perlite, without osm, and the plants suddenly started growing again. How much can the perlite/osmocote couple negatively affect a peat-based compost? How much can be a peat or sphagnum based compost be affected by the fact that you have to water 3 times a day when using osmocote, waterlogging these sponge-like composts? That's why I think that the more open and draining coir and osmocote are a perfect couple! "


This is just an anecdote from a gardening forum, and your hempy/osmocote plants don't look too poisoned to me, but I thought I would share it.
 
DocBud said:
Well, it all sounds pretty good. The only thing I can think of regarding the pH swing is the distilled water. You can't get an accurate measurement of pH in distilled water and the stuff you're adding may not be soluble enough to help the meter get a good reading.

I'd say try tap water for a while. The Osmocote has calcium and magnesium...the supplementing you've done already should pull them through that. pH the tapwater down to 5.8 or so......

they'll pull through bro. These plants are tough.
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Doc, I can attest to the fact that these plants are tough. They've survived a month with me!

Believe you're right about the distilled water. Switched to that when the plants went into the buckets. Used tap water when they were sprouts and they seemed to be happier with that. Thought the distilled would help to better control things.

Another mistake I made was to plant the sprouts too deep in buckets that are too small (1 gallon). Don't believe that enough of the upper root zone is getting a chance to dry out and take in O2. Am thinking of moving the plants over to some 2 1/2 gallon buckets I have this weekend. Am I crazy to consider doing this?

Thanks a lot for your encouragement!
 
Setting Sun said:
I think there may be a compatibility problem between Osmocote and pure perlite. I have an 6" pot with pure perlite that I top-dressed with OC+ a couple of days ago.

Today, there are chunks of perlite on the surface that have turned blue. These are probably copper salts. It could be that pure perlite may wick the salts out of the prills faster than intended.

Either that, or the white perlite just makes the salts easily visible, but I researched to see if I could find anything and found this:

"Lately for example I understood that Osmocote doesn't go too well with perlite, as this seems to retain the osm salts and poison the plants (like many other porous materials?). But I saw this on my sand/perlite mix, where the roots were probably looking for the perlite to absorb water. I changed the soil to a new mix of sand/perlite, without osm, and the plants suddenly started growing again. How much can the perlite/osmocote couple negatively affect a peat-based compost? How much can be a peat or sphagnum based compost be affected by the fact that you have to water 3 times a day when using osmocote, waterlogging these sponge-like composts? That's why I think that the more open and draining coir and osmocote are a perfect couple! "


This is just an anecdote from a gardening forum, and your hempy/osmocote plants don't look too poisoned to me, but I thought I would share it.
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Good info!
I did notice the the OC seems to work better in soil.....but my OC plants in hempy are also doing really well, and when I top dressed the AN hempy it immediately responded with better growth and color.

What I'm trying to say is that OC+ works just fine in perlite, especially compared to Advanced Nutrients and Fox Farms, both of which I've used.

But, I do think it's better in soil.

Coir has a whole other set of challenges which need to be learned.

I'm searching for a way to grow our beloved plant with the same ease I grow vegetables......and that way is using OC+.

Papa Green said:
Wow - this is great info. Unlike SS - I woulda just jumped in w/Perlite and Osmocote and torched 6 plants.

Thanks guys!

:nicethread::bravo::peace::rollit:
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You would not have torched your plants....mine are fine....more than fine. Yours would be too. Slimm's are fine.....

GrownManHollr said:
Doc, I can attest to the fact that these plants are tough. They've survived a month with me!

Believe you're right about the distilled water. Switched to that when the plants went into the buckets. Used tap water when they were sprouts and they seemed to be happier with that. Thought the distilled would help to better control things.

Another mistake I made was to plant the sprouts too deep in buckets that are too small (1 gallon). Don't believe that enough of the upper root zone is getting a chance to dry out and take in O2. Am thinking of moving the plants over to some 2 1/2 gallon buckets I have this weekend. Am I crazy to consider doing this?

Thanks a lot for your encouragement!
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1 gallon buckets are quite large enough. You've got no reason to change 'em out, and the believe me, the upper root zone is drying out just fine! The air roots will be especially happy is you only water in one spot on top.
 
I agree with doc, PG, but I just posted that info because I thought it was interesting and pertinent.

I didn't mean to be an alarmist or anything like that, it's just a heads-up that I felt compelled to share.

and from all my research on Osmocote thus far, I also agree with doc that once we get this stuff dialed in, it's not only going to make growing a lot easier and less expensive, but the results could be better than with more expensive and laborious nutes.
 
Setting Sun said:
I agree with doc, PG, but I just posted that info because I thought it was interesting and pertinent.

I didn't mean to be an alarmist or anything like that, it's just a heads-up that I felt compelled to share.

and from all my research on Osmocote thus far, I also agree with doc that once we get this stuff dialed in, it's not only going to make growing a lot easier and less expensive, but the results could be better than with more expensive and laborious nutes.
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If I was going to advise a first time grower on what to do, I'd say:

Get a damn bucket, drill a pencil sized hole 2 inches up from the bottom, fill it with perlite and Osmocote and grow some plants.

Look at all the people with deficiencies, lockout, burn't plants, etc. That won't happen with osmocote.

In soil, it works even better.

Once a few more people start growing this way, we can figure out what sort of tweaks and occasional supplements are needed. Like mentioned above, I'm going to be making a micronutrient mix for my next grow:

Gypsum 80 parts
Epsom Salts 4 parts
Borax 1 part
add 10 ounces of a micronutrient mix.

This will be mixed into soil, along with some humate and, of course, Osmocote +.

I'll water the above with tap water, right out of the hose, no pH testing.
 
DocBud said:
Good info!

1 gallon buckets are quite large enough. You've got no reason to change 'em out, and the believe me, the upper root zone is drying out just fine! The air roots will be especially happy is you only water in one spot on top.
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Thanks for the response Doc! I want everyone to know that my mixed results should not reflect badly on your methodology. When I've actually done all the things you suggest, my results have been very good!

Thanks Again!
 
GrownManHollr said:
Thanks for the response Doc! I want everyone to know that my mixed results should not reflect badly on your methodology. When I've actually done all the things you suggest, my results have been very good!

Thanks Again!
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Glad to hear it!

here's the bottom line on growing these plants

1.)70-85 degrees
2.)30-60%rh
3.)12 hours of darkness
4.)perlite
5.)some sort of nutes
6.)water

Do that and you'll harvest smokeable bud, unless you burn the crap out of them with too many salts.

You wanna make it easy and get above average results?

77 during the day 65 at night
60-70% rh through 4th week of bloom
30-50rh till they're done, drop the rh steadily as they progress
Perlite
Osmocote +, hygrozyme
Water ph'd to about 5.8 during veg....let it creep up to about 6.2 during bloom.

That's all. It works.

You want great results? Superb, amazing results? Well, so do I. When I learn how to do that, I'll let you know.
 
DocBud said:
Good info!
I did notice the the OC seems to work better in soil.....but my OC plants in hempy are also doing really well, and when I top dressed the AN hempy it immediately responded with better growth and color.

What I'm trying to say is that OC+ works just fine in perlite, especially compared to Advanced Nutrients and Fox Farms, both of which I've used.

But, I do think it's better in soil.

Coir has a whole other set of challenges which need to be learned.

I'm searching for a way to grow our beloved plant with the same ease I grow vegetables......and that way is using OC+.



You would not have torched your plants....mine are fine....more than fine. Yours would be too. Slimm's are fine.....



1 gallon buckets are quite large enough. You've got no reason to change 'em out, and the believe me, the upper root zone is drying out just fine! The air roots will be especially happy is you only water in one spot on top.
Click to expand...

Mine are fine even though I applied my usual diligence in trying to harm the plants - they succeeded in spite of me! I do not think the nutes care that they are in perlite or any other medium. In fact, you could drop prills in water with a bubbler and a plant and do just fine - hmm, perhaps we just invented a new hydro method. And Dynamite may be a better prill for this since they were designed to be submerged.
 
i've got two malawi gold plants in pure perlite and osmocote plus..........they are the healthiest plants i have grown to this point................waiting for my white russians to finish in rdc so i can put my next batch in the perlite also
 
Setting Sun said:
Thanks for the feedback and personal experience slimm.

The blue perlite alarmed me, and then I found that guy's post which further alarmed me

so the Dynamite prills and the Osmocote prills are designed differently?
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Yes the two are designed 4 totally different apps. OC+ soil and Dynamite for rice paddy's they are in soil but 100% water at all times.
I did a tomato bubbler and threw in some OC+ and a couple weeks later when cleaning I checked the prills and they were just a hollow shell of the remaining soy prill.
I too had a discoloration of my perlite but it was green and very few. I took out those few particles and watched for more but never to be seen again even after some top dressing.
I did my seedlings in perlite too and never to be done again as my plants are stunted. They had great root systems but midgets non the less. Was it perlite or me?
What I have found and all other may be familiar with them to are the new Jiffy Proforma and Sunleaf plugs. They are Coco in base and are rather like a sponge. In that they are very porous and all my cuttings have really loved them. They are biodegradable.
I've also found a new product to me and no body else has even talked about.
It's an organic Co2 at $25 for a sealed breathable container to hang in a 10' x 10' room lasting for six months. My local guys can not keep them in stock. Mycelium definition = Mycelium is vital in terrestrial and aquatic ecosystems for its role in the decomposition of plant material. It contributes to the organic fraction of soil, and its growth releases carbon dioxide back into the atmosphere. The mycelium of mycorrhizal fungi increases the efficiency of water and nutrient absorption of most plants and confers resistance to some plant pathogens. Mycelium is an important food source for many soil invertebrates.
www.co2cultivator.com Home of ExHale "Grow your Own CO2" Please do yourself a favor and check it out........... I personally love its treatment of my garden.
 
hi setting sun, I just put half the charge right above the res and the other half about two inches down.............i am doing them in a 3 and 1/2 gallon bucket
 
Old Goat said:
Yes the two are designed 4 totally different apps. OC+ soil and Dynamite for rice paddy's they are in soil but 100% water at all times.
I did a tomato bubbler and threw in some OC+ and a couple weeks later when cleaning I checked the prills and they were just a hollow shell of the remaining soy prill.
Click to expand...

very interesting, thank you!

I too had a discoloration of my perlite but it was green and very few. I took out those few particles and watched for more but never to be seen again even after some top dressing.
Click to expand...

strange stuff. The blue was right at the top of some of the surface perlite chunks, as if it had wicked up and concentrated at the top. It doesn't shout at you, but it's noticeable if one is looking.

I did my seedlings in perlite too and never to be done again as my plants are stunted. They had great root systems but midgets non the less. Was it perlite or me?
Click to expand...

well, I'll tell you how I look at stuff like this. If a considerable number of people have success at doing something that isn't working for me, I have to assume it's me or they would be having the same problems.

What I have found and all other may be familiar with them to are the new Jiffy Proforma and Sunleaf plugs. They are Coco in base and are rather like a sponge. In that they are very porous and all my cuttings have really loved them. They are biodegradable.
Click to expand...

thanks for the tip on the plugs. I've recently sprouted a few seeds in Rapid Rooter plugs and like them a lot. They retain plenty of moisture, but not so much that stem rot is a problem.

I've also found a new product to me and no body else has even talked about.
It's an organic Co2 at $25 for a sealed breathable container to hang in a 10' x 10' room lasting for six months. My local guys can not keep them in stock. Mycelium definition = Mycelium is vital in terrestrial and aquatic ecosystems for its role in the decomposition of plant material. It contributes to the organic fraction of soil, and its growth releases carbon dioxide back into the atmosphere. The mycelium of mycorrhizal fungi increases the efficiency of water and nutrient absorption of most plants and confers resistance to some plant pathogens. Mycelium is an important food source for many soil invertebrates.
www.co2cultivator.com Home of ExHale "Grow your Own CO2" Please do yourself a favor and check it out........... I personally love its treatment of my garden.
Click to expand...

I will check it out, thank you brother!
 
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