The Sauga Ends Here

[FelipeBlu]

The last version of MC only provides about 1.6 ppm Si at 4g/gal.

3ml/gal of ProteKt provides 67 ppm of Si, which seems to be enough to improve heat, drought, and insect resistance for most strains, and doesn’t appear to negatively affect the performance of the MC.

 

[DeeCee112]

Here is examples of the issues I've seen throughout this grow on MC v3 by itself. I've been having a hard time nailing down although it has been only affecting a few leaves and only one branch per plant and only on three of seven. D9nt get me wrong overall they look amazing and are growing well. Just into week three since flip now.

Early Veg - seemed to resolve with plain tap water mini flush and reduced MC.

Weeks 1 -3 after flip - 4.5g MC consistent for 3+weeks - ongoing but not progressing much

Last watering I put 15+ gallons through the seven plants of plain tap water. Two days later fed 10gallons at 5g MC (+.5).

 

[bluter]

you look light. the edge burning is a common def sign i've seen in mc. i'd wager you may be past it now and looking at older damage tho.

 

[Virgin Ground]

Honestly I think soil growers may have issues. The changes are good for hydro grows imho, but the old version had enough Ca and Mg in it. The K reduction is a great idea but adding more P doesn't make sense as there was plenty of that too, and plants don't use much P in flower contrary to belief so it makes no sense to me.

Shazzbut.
You are making me ultra nervous about buying 22# of the stuff.


Fuzzy feeling is gone.....

 

[bluter]

Shazzbut.
You are making me ultra nervous about buying 22# of the stuff.

i'm sure it'll be fine. might just be easier to balance a grow among multiple strains. remember this is a single nute answer for commercial application. there are way bigger customers that'd walk if it didn't meet their needs over a broad range. us home folk are benefiting from them focusing on that market.

 

[FelipeBlu]

you look light. the edge burning is a common def sign i've seen in mc. i'd wager you may be past it now and looking at older damage tho.

I agree - unbelievably, it looks like K def. With v3, that can only mean not enough g/gal, unless you are also adding too much CaMg, which will compete with K.

 

[bluter]

I agree - unbelievably, it looks like K def. With v3, that can only mean not enough g/gal, unless you are also adding too much CaMg, which will compete with K.

it does. i kinda think he climbed through it though. at 5g i'm guessing it's knocking on the door for a tiny bit more soon if not now as well ... harder call in dwc for me

 

[DeeCee112]

No additional CaMg added I'm working on dialing in MC alone this run. I had held at 4.5g for a good 3 weeks as there was no apparent reason to increase yet. They are stretching now and likely pulling more nutrients to support that. Im hoping you guys are right and the added.5 just what the doc ordered! Thanks!

 

[MrSauga]

Shazzbut.
You are making me ultra nervous about buying 22# of the stuff.


Fuzzy feeling is gone.....

You may want to get that RO buddy

 

[MrSauga]

No additional CaMg added I'm working on dialing in MC alone this run. I had held at 4.5g for a good 3 weeks as there was no apparent reason to increase yet. They are stretching now and likely pulling more nutrients to support that. Im hoping you guys are right and the added.5 just what the doc ordered! Thanks!

I'll play the devil's advocate and ask why would a K def present itself when GLN reduced it in their newest formula? A K def should ONLY present itself in flower. If it does at any other time then it's a lockout. Reducing or maintaining the levels of MC is the way to go imho. If your plant is hungry then you would have yellowing leaves from lack of N from a reduced amount of MC the plant has been given. If I saw yellowing I can assure you I wouldn't see a K def. But I see no yellow which means the plant was getting more than enough MC to begin with.

 

[Grand Daddy Black]

Honestly I think soil growers may have issues. The changes are good for hydro grows imho, but the old version had enough Ca and Mg in it. The K reduction is a great idea but adding more P doesn't make sense as there was plenty of that too, and plants don't use much P in flower contrary to belief so it makes no sense to me.

MrSauga, you should contact them ASAP and let them know they're doing it all wrong!

 

[FelipeBlu]

Nailed I think with the suggestion that RO was needed because excessive Ca or Mg (or both) were locking out K. If he’s not adding it, it’s in the water.

And my comment about it being not enough MC was a shot at GLN for putting so much K in v2/v3.

 

[DeeCee112]

I'll play the devil's advocate and ask why would a K def present itself when GLN reduced it in their newest formula? A K def should ONLY present itself in flower. If it does at any other time then it's a lockout. Reducing or maintaining the levels of MC is the way to go imho. If your plant is hungry then you would have yellowing leaves from lack of N from a reduced amount of MC the plant has been given. If I saw yellowing I can assure you I wouldn't see a K def. But I see no yellow which means the plant was getting more than enough MC to begin with.

I had also thought about that which is what lead me to the plain tap watering to significant runoff in hopes of move out a bit of buildup in case that was a factor. However considering I had been at 4.5g for 3+ weeks without issue I couldn't see how it would suddenly be too excessive, especially when they are stretching and budding 2-3 weeks into 12/12 wouldn't the needs be increasing, not decreasing?

Edit: Also no sign of any burnt or yellowed tips that would indicate excessive nitrogen.

 

[MrSauga]

I had also thought about that which is what lead me to the plain tap watering to significant runoff in hopes of move out a bit of buildup in case that was a factor.

You did the right thing. The media stores any excess the plant doesn't use. Eventually you build up enough excess nutrients such as N, P, Ca and Mg and that reduces the availability of K to the plant. You'll hear of some growers that give their media a rinse/reset every fourth feeding. What they are doing is flushing out the excess salts then coming back with the same amount or less of MC on their final watering during that rinse/reset.
Growers using MC that water to runoff normally have less issues as some salts are being pushed out. If you don't water to a good runoff then you are more prone to K issues.

 

[MrSauga]

And my comment about it being not enough MC was a shot at GLN for putting so much K in v2/v3.

lol, yes I didn't catch the subtle connection there. Thanks for the clarification Felipe.

Edit: Also no sign of any burnt or yellowed tips that would indicate excessive nitrogen.

MC is forgiving when it comes to signs of nute burn. We know that high levels of N in the upper ranges of over 200ppm tend to cause nute burn. Even at the highest dosage of MC you are under 170ppm.

 

[bluter]

You did the right thing. The media stores any excess the plant doesn't use. Eventually you build up enough excess nutrients such as N, P, Ca and Mg and that reduces the availability of K to the plant. You'll hear of some growers that give their media a rinse/reset every fourth feeding. What they are doing is flushing out the excess salts then coming back with the same amount or less of MC on their final watering during that rinse/reset.
Growers using MC that water to runoff normally have less issues as some salts are being pushed out. If you don't water to a good runoff then you are more prone to K issues.

what do you figger is goin on with coco or hempy MrS .. ? they are essentially drain to waste frequent water systems with a fair amount of run off.

under AN a regular flush - normal feed amount with just plain ph water and cal-mag - was part of the regular schedule. after switching to MC i dropped it, as the plants pretty much whined, and just went with straight feeds. i do think i am getting build up though, mid to late flower is real dance on mc alone. no way to keep them all happy i find.

or maybe i'm just not hittin it ?

 

[MrSauga]

what do you figger is goin on with coco or hempy MrS .. ? they are essentially drain to waste frequent water systems with a fair amount of run off.

under AN a regular flush - normal feed amount with just plain ph water and cal-mag - was part of the regular schedule. after switching to MC i dropped it, as the plants pretty much whined, and just went with straight feeds. i do think i am getting build up though, mid to late flower is real dance on mc alone. no way to keep them all happy i find.

or maybe i'm just not hittin it ?

Maybe I'm not understanding the question exactly bluter. In hydro/passive hydro I can't see how you would have a build up of nutes. There's no place for the excess to be stored, so I would think that most issues related to hydro/passive hydro and MC are related to pH or feed amounts(with the need for calmag).
It's why I think GLN has decided to add more Ca and Mg for the hydro growers. There was never any evidence to me or others that there was never enough of those nutrients.

Sorry if I didn't understand what you meant.

 

[FelipeBlu]

what do you figger is goin on with coco or hempy MrS .. ? they are essentially drain to waste frequent water systems with a fair amount of run off.

under AN a regular flush - normal feed amount with just plain ph water and cal-mag - was part of the regular schedule. after switching to MC i dropped it, as the plants pretty much whined, and just went with straight feeds. i do think i am getting build up though, mid to late flower is real dance on mc alone. no way to keep them all happy i find.

or maybe i'm just not hittin it ?

Yeah, my plants in 100% perlite would totally freak out if I just fed them water. It would upset that delicate osmotic balance inside/outside the root. Plants didn’t evolve to handle wild swings like that, and they will let you know.

 

[bluter]

Maybe I'm not understanding the question exactly bluter. In hydro/passive hydro I can't see how you would have a build up of nutes. There's no place for the excess to be stored, so I would think that most issues related to hydro/passive hydro and MC are related to pH or feed amounts(with the need for calmag).
It's why I think GLN has decided to add more Ca and Mg for the hydro growers. There was never any evidence to me or others that there was never enough of those nutrients.

Sorry if I didn't understand what you meant.

you'd have to have look at the late part of my last two harvests .. i wound up running hot i think. i went in to this flower light on purpose and am ramping hard now. trying to see if i can stay under 6.5g / gal for a max. touched over 7 on the last.

 

[bluter]

Yeah, my plants in 100% perlite would totally freak out if I just fed them water. It would upset that delicate osmotic balance inside/outside the root. Plants didn’t evolve to handle wild swings like that, and they will let you know.

it was all part of the ballgame in AN. they actually improved. ran h202 on a couple and they really loved that. piles.
might try it with MC, but it doesn't play the same.