The Joy Of Growing - SweetSue Goes Perpetual

One ounce per square foot is easily doable, Rado. :cheesygrinsmiley:

DrZiggy just finished a bloom-from-seed grow and got close to 1.5 oz/sqft. :thedoubletake: I think he harvested in the 80-90 day range.

:thumb:

Do you have any idea how much this excites me? I think about what Ziggy is doing all the time. He's an obsession! Run well, it's a system that has so much potential. Almost there.
 
It's been a lomg tmie since i went dick swingin' with anyone. Sorry I gave that persception. I was just trying to absorb what GT was saying.

I love the way Gray grows consistent plants . Pesonally, I'm still at the "getting the plants happy enough to go into the flower room" stage.

oh no! You didn't give me that impression at all, Rado. You asked a great question. The point I was trying to make is that is that when people talk about things like grams per watt, it is always a question of, "compared to what?" What GT did was fun.
 
For Sue and anyone else interested I'll post some observations about watering and wet/dry cycling.

The first thing to ask is, "how dry should it get?" You don't really want the plant to suffer on the dry end. That said, if you've never let the plant get to the point where is shows obvious signs of being thirsty you can't really know what the limit is...

How do I know when the plant is showing obvious signs of being thirsty? Well, it's obvious. That sounds patronizing but it isn't that simple. As usual an analogy might be useful.

Many years ago I aquired a TRD off road Tacoma. It is a decent 4x4 but by no means a highly modified offroad beast. My son who was about 12 at the time and I were headed up to Ouray in Colorado to meet up with some extended family. When we got to Silverton I decided to head up the Alpine Loop which is a 4x4 road in the area. Once we had gotten up high I noticed a road heading down a gulch. My map indicated that it was a shortcut to Ouray. There was a modified Tacoma and a tricked out Jeep parked at the road junction. I stopped and asked the drivers if they had come up the road and if they thought it was possible for me to go down it.

The guy with the truck walked behind my truck and looked at the hitch. "You will bump that heavy duty hitch at the bad spot" he told me, "but yeah, you can make it down that."

"The bad spot? How far down is the bad spot?"

"You'll know it when you see it", he told me. "There are winch points anchored in the rocks there for people coming up. Just be careful there. You will bump your hitch but it is heavy duty and won't get damaged."

The boy and I started down the road and it got pretty awful in a hurry. I repeatedly came upon knarly spots where junior had to get out and spot my line. Each time he did I wondered if that was "the bad spot." I didn't see the winch points... The going was slow. The prospect of turning around and going back up was not fun. Then we got to the bad spot and I KNEW we were there. Before that I was merely wondering if each bad part of road was the bad spot. The guy at the top was right. When I got there I KNEW it. There was no doubt.

"What the heck is PeeJay going on about? How does this even relate to watering my pot plants?" you may be asking yourself. In order to understand the wet dry cycle you need to let the pot dry out until the plant starts to show signs of being very thirsty. You'll know it when you see it. On the way there, if you've never been down that road, you will look at the plant with skepticism and wonder if you have let it get dry enough. But, when the plant starts to show obvious signs of dehydration you will KNOW it.

That road we were on is called Poughkeepsie Gulch by the way. You can google it and watch videos of people destroying their vehicles at the bad spot if you are so inclined.

It can be nerve racking getting to the bad spot with your plants. At least you don't have to drive your truck down the wall when you get there. You just water the plant and it bounces right back.

Now then, the goal is not to get the plants THAT dry every watering cycle. What going to the edge does is help you learn the dry end limit. You get a sense of the weight of the pot when it is getting critically dry. If you don't have a sense of the limit then you will probably always water too frequently. Trust me, the plant will not suddenly die if you turn your back on it for a few hours as things start to dry out. Test the limit and learn.

The next problem is how much to water when you do water? There is no set amount. You can't really say, I will water 2 quarts. The goal is to thoroughly soak the the soil. The soil is well drained, hopefully with perlite or lava rock or whatever. You want to get it to where it's holding all the water it can hold.

Many times you'll see people say that you should water until there's runoff. That can be very deceiving. In nature the soil dries out after watering from the top down. This cycling promotes healthy balanced micobial activity and a robust root-soil interface. When the soil on top is dry it does not readily accept moisture when you water it. Think about a celluloid kitchen sponge. If you let it get bone dry then stick it under a stream of water it doesn't spring right back to it's hydrated state. At first the water will bead up and run off. It takes a little coaxing to get the sponge ready to soak up the water. The same is true of soil. That's why in dry climates or times of drought there is a huge danger of flash flooding when it rains hard. The soil isn't ready to absorb all that moisture and it runs off.

When it is time to water you need to give the plant a little and leave it for a few minutes. Then, go back and do it again. Hit the pot with water in stages until it is holding all the water it can. In larger containers this can take a bit of time.

I was talking about this with someone once and took a picture to illustrate. I poured about a quart of water on a plant that was ready for watering until I got runoff. Then I lifted the rootball out of the pot and took a picture of it.

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Because I hadn't "coaxed the sponge" into accepting water, a lot of water ran across the top of the pot and found the path of least resistance - down the junction between the soil and the container and out the drain holes. Sure I had gotten runoff, but the plant was not well watered. If you look at the picture closely you can see water paths. Most of the root ball is still dry.

In summation it is very useful to understand the dry limit. Once you know where that is you can water before the plants get there but not water too soon. When it is time to water, water slowly and thoroughly. This top down drying of the soil is what happens in nature. It promotes healthy and robust soil/plant metabolism far more effectively than things like ACTs. It isn't that hard, really!
 
Yeah, SWICK has it's place. I'm going to do a mini update in a moment and you will laugh and maybe even cast rotten fruits and vegetables in my general direction. :rofl:
Too funny PJ being I was by your place earlier this morning and read your update.
Really got a lot out of the discussion you & Doc Bud had here on the 3rd.

Ziggy just got a total of 8 ounces from 12 plants on his just-completed cycle. I think that took him somewhere around the 90 day mark too. That's the plan. One month in each of three stations, recognizing that you'll get an occasional straggler.
I'm pulling a little over that every 3 months harvesting every week perpetually with the traditional 18/6 - 12/12 in nothing but 2lt Soda Pop Pots. But with the different characteristics they're getting from these strains using these other light cycles makes the smaller yields seem insignificant.

I read somewhere yesterday that the lower the RH the more frosting you will get but I just can't remember where it was. It was on :420: though. Maybe someone can chime in with the location or facts.
Interesting. Can anyone verify or chime in on this?

Light cycles (photoperiod) and light orientation can evoke different phenotypical expressions. For example, 18/6 to 12/12 seems to bring out Indica traits, while 16/8 to 11/13 (what I'm currently running) definitely brings out Sativa qualities in the plants.

Having the light directly overhead evokes Sativa traits, while having the plant off in the corner will bring more Indica traits.

Those of us geeks and connoisseur's have noticed that there can be some really interesting variety on the Sativa side of things which hasn't been covered as well in the last 20 years as the Indica side. So we're exploring the floral terps, the racy, upbeat aspects of the effect and all that is Sativa.

I'm sure the pendulum will swing back the other way in due time but it's high past time the majectic Sativa's like Colombian Gold, Mexican, Thai and Nepalese Sativa's are back in vogue as they are quite special and psychedelic compared to the narcotic Indica's.

Having a good supply of both is the goal!

I am posting this, because it's well worth reading twice. bump.
Double :bump:
 
Just knock me over PeeJay. Thank you for that invaluable tutorial. I'm on my way home from my river walk and breakfast and I may have a plant at the dry stage today. My Auto Jock Horror x Auto Amnesia was light as can be but not yet showing any signs of being dry so I resisted the urge to drench yesterday. Between you, Doc and Graytail we're going to get this right.
 
Ok Sue. Cool. But... the drench is not the same as a watering. There is an amount to use and as I said about watering there is no set amount. Drench according to Doc's instructions paying attention to coaxing the drench into the soil so it doesn't just run down the soil container junction. Then let it go dry from there and next time it will be a water only event with the goal of to thoroughly hydrating the soil.
 
Here is a 420 thread on low humidity and increased trichs

Increasing trichomes and growth

Most information thrown up is just peoples views and/or observations. I cannot find any science on it so we should just take it as we see it and maybe try it for ourselves. I keep around 40% RH on temps of 80F-85F to avoid mould problems.
 
Ok Sue. Cool. But... the drench is not the same as a watering. There is an amount to use and as I said about watering there is no set amount. Drench according to Doc's instructions paying attention to coaxing the drench into the soil so it doesn't just run down the soil container junction. Then let it go dry from there and next time it will be a water only event with the goal of to thoroughly hydrating the soil.

Actually PeeJay, this one would have been 1/4 Transplant/Water, which I believe could be applied as a top watering, and after reading your little tutorial I will strive to make those applications top down from now on. Any problems with that Doc?

Ok, I'm home and into the tent and here she is.

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Before reading your post I would have gone ahead and watered today, based solely on the weight of the pot. But as I look at her, discounting the leaves I crisped up by overloading the soil, I don't get that "she's definitely thirsty" vibe. Close, but not there. My instinct says another day. I've been privy to some illustrations of really dry lately, so I think I know what I'm looking for.

If anyone wants to share pictures of plants right before watering, that would be greatly appreciated. I think that would be an excellent addition to the conversation. In fact, if more than one would volunteer that type of illustration, that would be even better. This is one of the most critical parts of successfully growing those tiny roots we strive for, and I feel we're getting a rare in-depth lesson on how to get it right. Think of the new growers coming up behind us who will thank us for the effort.

Time to tend to the garden.
 
Thanxx Medfarmer.
 
The healthy growth is all looking nicely turgid still Sue. So, not being a kit grower what does 1/4 transplant/water mean? I assume you mix up the transplant and then use the mix in a 1 part mixed transplant to 4 parts water ratio?
 
If I were using Transplant in a drench it would be at 0.5 - 1.0 mL for a gallon pot. The pots I'm using are a bit less than a half gallon, so I would use 0.25- 0.5ml for them, were I doing a drench. It's up to me to determine the amount of water needed for the drench, since it should be enough to completely hydrate the pot with about a 20% runoff. Because this isn't a Transplant/Tea drench but the intermittent 1/4 Transplant/Water application I would use the same amount of water, but only 1/4 the amount of Transplant I would use for the drench, or 0.06 ml of Transplant. You have a bit of play here, so for ease of measuring I increase that to 0.1 ml. This minuscule amount of Transplant means the application is almost entirely water.

Was that clear enough PeeJay? All you HB lurkers, if I have this wrong, please, someone step up to the plate and tell me so.
 
Gotcha, Sue. So pretty much you are watering with just a smidge of cold water fish hydrolysate and chilean nitrate and you are going to go slow when you do it and make sure that the entire pot is holding onto as much moisture as it can. One of the things you'll notice if you go slow in stages is that you will get a bunch of runoff at first and then it sort of stops even though you are still adding liquid. Eventually you get to a point where the runoff increases again and that is when you are basically done.
 
Gotcha, Sue. So pretty much you are watering with just a smidge of cold water fish hydrosylate and chilean nitrate and you are going to go slow when you do it and make sure that the entire pot is holding onto as much moisture as it can. One of the things you'll notice if you go slow in stages is that you will get a bunch of runoff at first and then it sort of stops even though you are still adding liquid. Eventually you get to a point where the runoff increases again and that is when you are basically done.

Dale trained me to water the bonsai way years ago PeeJay. Slow, slow, slow in two cycles (waiting at least ten minutes between cycles) until you get runoff. I like to start the process with a spray, as opposed to a stream, because it helps the top zone become more sponge-like and then you get less of the water following those pathways it will seek out if you just dump the water on. I'm really good at that. We did bonsai for a number of years before his health nosedived on us. He made sure I was doing it right.

See guys, I have the training, just was too afraid of screwing up. Hahaha! Must have been the stress of him dying, because typically I don't second guess myself like that.

Feeling more and more normal every day guys. Today is a good one, right from the get-go. The only episode of grief this morning was dispatched in less than 30 seconds. Stronger by the day. I'm good for accelerated healing. Confront the fear, liberally apply forgiveness, let it go, move on and live joyfully. It's much too aggressive for the average bear, but, in case you weren't paying attention, there's nothing average about me. Not bravado, just self-awareness. I have too much to do to be dragging around all that drama.

Those walks through the labyrinth every morning have been a major contributor to the healing. How fortuitous that they chose to construct one right around the corner from my home. Sweet. :Love:
 
Karma springs to mind SweetSue. You gave to Dale and you got back :Love:

What a sweet thought MedFarmer. Were you closer I'd have hugged you for that. :hugs:
 
IMO it doesn't matter if you are using one of the "drenches" or using the Trans water, I give them the same way. You still want to go from the dry end of the cycle to the full soaked pot end of the cycle. You learn quick enough how much water that takes for a given pot and plant. I water or drench top down and bottom up every time it is possible, letting the plant soak in the water/drench for 10 minutes. Really, the "Trans watering" is a drench - just no Tea and at the reduced concentration.

FWIW, I find a full Trans or GE drench to be 0.5 ml per gallon of soil.

Great explanation of the wet/dry cycle, PJ!
 
Daily Update: Perpetual Tent - Week 9

Good morning my lovelies. :battingeyelashes:

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Today I remembered to check this right after opening the tent, which is a more accurate idea of what's going on in here when I'm absent. We 're sitting at perfect, aren't we? The beauty of purchasing the right equipment at the beginning. Big thanks to my dear friend for caring so much about me.

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African Buzz, Day 53. Sooooo spikey and smelling incredible! These are beginning to look like typical kit babies, discounting their tiny stature and stunted development from getting a bad start out of the gate. Trichome development is through the roof. I keep imagining this happening with a plant that actually had a decent head start. Oooooo, that next cycle is going to be such fun. :laughtwo:

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My sweet Auto Destroyer, at Day 54 shows no signs of distress from the transplant. whew!

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Auto Jock Horror x Auto Amnesia at Day 52. This one is going onto the SWICK at her next watering and will stay there until the finish as our comparison to the African Buzz, which won't.

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Oh, how I love these shots. Makes me all giggly and warm inside. :cheesygrinsmiley:

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Cheese Candy in all her splendor at Day 54. There's a little bit of bleaching going on, but it's so minimal I'm not sure if I should be concerned about it. My instinct is to relax, order some yo-yo hangers for the rest of the lights and make future adjustments that much easier for me. Sound good to you?

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The most obvious difference between this plant in LOS and the kit girls is the major trichome development we do not see here yet. That accelerated development on the kit girls suggests a superior end product IMHO. I don't see how she can ever really catch up the her HB sisters. Not that she won't do well in the end, because I have no doubt that when she starts going at it she's probably going to be absolutely stunning, but the others have a distinct advantage at this point.

One last glance before I close it up and get out of their way.

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You know, when I have a full tent I'm going to have to train myself to be more selective about pictures. LOL! For the time being I'll just continue to indulge my fascination. :laughtwo: :green_heart:

There was absolutely nothing else I had to do with them today. How easy this can be if you don't obsess.

Ok, you already know I'm going to encourage an overflowing of joy through your lives today, so have fun with it. Grab someone dear to you real quick now and let them know in no uncertain terms how much they light up your life. There, wasn't that grand? :cheesygrinsmiley:

Lots to do today if I'm going to get this closet ready. I'll be in and out all day (like that's anything new :laughtwo: ).

:namaste:
 
For Sue and anyone else interested I'll post some observations about watering and wet/dry cycling.

The first thing to ask is, "how dry should it get?" You don't really want the plant to suffer on the dry end. That said, if you've never let the plant get to the point where is shows obvious signs of being thirsty you can't really know what the limit is...

How do I know when the plant is showing obvious signs of being thirsty? Well, it's obvious. ...

In order to understand the wet dry cycle you need to let the pot dry out until the plant starts to show signs of being very thirsty. You'll know it when you see it. On the way there, if you've never been down that road, you will look at the plant with skepticism and wonder if you have let it get dry enough. But, when the plant starts to show obvious signs of dehydration you will KNOW it... It can be nerve racking getting to the bad spot with your plants. At least you don't have to drive your truck down the wall when you get there. You just water the plant and it bounces right back.

I just KNEW this one was thirsty. :rofl: Oops. :cheesygrinsmiley:

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So I watered it and it looked like this an hour later. :cheesygrinsmiley:

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