The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It

[Jon]

Also, if you immediately are thinking "Sweet! Imma crank VPD way up and grow these Ladies hard", well here is what will happen.

If you actually have the ability to photosynthesize that hard, fly at it, but in reality you will suck water out faster than the system can get nutritious water in, and plain soil water sucks in instead, and you end up starving your plant.

Speed is directly linked to the ratio of rootball size/ability to the amount of foliage it can support.

This is how I can prune out 75% of a plant and everyone gasps, but the plant says thanks and excels.

I lower VPD, let the plant slow down, hack it back, give it a day or 2, then speed up the giant rootball (giant on the ratio to foliage after the hacking) to increase nutrients as the plant accelerates.

My high brix readings allow the remaining foliage to supply the microbes with sugar.

If you did this with low brix it would be one of those opportune moments to add a sugary tea to offset the lack of exudates.

Thats why I give my 1st tea at the same time I remove all the side branching.

Things should be starting to make sense to the new growers now as too whats going on in the plants life.

I would be one of them amd this conversation has indeed been very enlightening. I need to get warmer. Thanks.

 

[Jon]

Day 3 of Flower

The casulties of war.

I gave the plants a tea a few hours before the lights died. Then under the 100w rescue strips photosynthesis pretty much stopped.

The nutes just sat in the leaf arteries when they should have been processed by the photosynthesis department, but couldn't be under the small lights..

In organics, food in the fluids of a plant is actually micro-solids. If you overfeed, or under photosynthesize, those solids get pushed past the photosynthesis dept unprocessed, and end up getting jammed into the crevices at the end of the arteries. The leaf tips.

They build up until they form a caking, and as the caking thickens it dries out.

Once its drier than the leaf tissue it pulls moisture from the leaf tips into the caking, causing the burnt colored tips.

This isn't what I wanted but lets all benefit from it.

If you tea a plant too strong for how its photosynthesizing at the time, now you know why the tips burn, and can work around it next time.

errr, I mean I purposely sabotaged my own light to make this demo. You mofos owe me!

Yeah, thats it

Well damn. You just shat all over one of my favorite sayings: if you don’t have yellow tips you’re not trying hard enough! So much for that one. You’re a jerk. Everything I thought I knew is bullshit.

 

[Jon]

If you need any assistance I have walked a lot of online VPD streets, so I may not have the exact answer you need, but for sure I can point you in a direction. The best VPD calculator I have found is in the google play store and suprisingly enough, its called VPD Calculator lol.

Its simple. No frills. I use it to run scenarios when things go awry and then pick the best route out.

If you get bored, just throw numbers into it and see if the plant speeds up or slows down. It will help you understand environmental variables.

If you can hold a steady 1.4 with a 2 degree leaf difference in flower, turn up the light a little bit, then adjust parameters to get it to 1.4 after the leaves get used to the added light and settle at a 2 degree difference again. Usually the next day.

When you hit the wall and can't get the 2 degree difference, it means you have reached the limits of how much the rootball can supply the plant.

Don't go beyond that or you starve the plant by oversynthesizing and not being able to supply the photosynthesis department adequately.

You have just found the plants max. All strains and phenos have different max points.

Rookie question: how does one measure leaf temperature?

 

[Jon]

Soil Making Question

Ok, so I am moving by say Xmas. I will set up and run my first grow staring in January, and would like to use soil that’s closer to actual organic than Geo/RGR. I hear how you can begin with say, FF Ocean Forest, and add from there to build your soil. Ok no problem. But…I also heard someone say wouldn’t a more neutral soil be a better base than one that’s full of nutes already. So that’s my first question: what is the best base to use until I can compost my own?

Then I wonder about timing when one makes soil using a product base soil, whatever it is. Let’s say I found the base I want to use, have mixed all the ingredients in, and it’s curing or whatever it’s called. Next question: how long does it take to become a good solid soil? Is it going too fast to simply mix the soil and use it right away? Somehow it feels like a no, it has to sit for x number of months first, but idk.

Any help? Thanks.

 

[Keffka]

Rookie question: how does one measure leaf temperature?

IR thermometer

 

[Keffka]

Soil Making Question

Ok, so I am moving by say Xmas. I will set up and run my first grow staring in January, and would like to use soil that’s closer to actual organic than Geo/RGR. I hear how you can begin with say, FF Ocean Forest, and add from there to build your soil. Ok no problem. But…I also heard someone say wouldn’t a more neutral soil be a better base than one that’s full of nutes already. So that’s my first question: what is the best base to use until I can compost my own?

Then I wonder about timing when one makes soil using a product base soil, whatever it is. Let’s say I found the base I want to use, have mixed all the ingredients in, and it’s curing or whatever it’s called. Next question: how long does it take to become a good solid soil? Is it going too fast to simply mix the soil and use it right away? Somehow it feels like a no, it has to sit for x number of months first, but idk.

Any help? Thanks.

My current grow in my signature is with FFOF amended

“Full of nutes” isn’t really a thing in organics the way you’re thinking of it. The “nutrients” aren’t available to the plant in their bagged form, it’s stuff like EWC and guano, so the same stuff you’d be amending in anyway. Unless you’re going to be doing soil tests with a lab to tweak your values, a “neutral” soil isn’t going to do you much good.

The best base is a cheap, high quality organic potting mix like fox farms ocean forest or G&B Blue Ribbon blend. You don’t want to spend crazy money on a base because you’re going to be doing so much amending it’ll be a waste to go with something like Stonington blend. Cheap and organic, that’s it.

“Curing” the soil is actually typically called cooking which is actually just composting. The length of time it takes depends on temperature, oxygen and water. At 80F it takes my mix 45 days to be ready. I keep it moist and turn it every couple days. Colder temperatures will take longer. Less oxygen and too much water or too little water will also take longer.

Never, ever, EVER, amend a soil with minerals and inputs then use it without cooking. You will overwhelm and fry your plants. The microbes need to work on those inputs, locking them up in their bodies and poop so it’s in a form that won’t overwhelm the plant.

You’re looking at around a 45 day minimum to cook the soil for use. Depending on how powerful your mix is and what your temps are this can vary widely. Some peoples mixes take 3-4 months to cook, mine like I said, is 45 days. I could get away with 30 but there’s no need.

 

[Jon]

IR thermometer

Thanks @Keffka - I just noticed your tag line at the bottom of your signature for the first time and it made my heart sing. This is not the venue but I’d love to have a conversation with you sometime and somewhere appropriate about that.

 

[Keffka]

Thanks @Keffka - I just noticed your tag line at the bottom of your signature for the first time and it made my heart sing. This is not the venue but I’d love to have a conversation with you sometime and somewhere appropriate about that.

No problem!

I don’t hate anyone or anything, except for that. I have a visceral disgust for it and could soap box for days However, yes, this thread is not the place for the soap box

 

[Jon]

My current grow in my signature is with FFOF amended

“Full of nutes” isn’t really a thing in organics the way you’re thinking of it. The “nutrients” aren’t available to the plant in their bagged form, it’s stuff like EWC and guano, so the same stuff you’d be amending in anyway. Unless you’re going to be doing soil tests with a lab to tweak your values, a “neutral” soil isn’t going to do you much good.

The best base is a cheap, high quality organic potting mix like fox farms ocean forest or G&B Blue Ribbon blend. You don’t want to spend crazy money on a base because you’re going to be doing so much amending it’ll be a waste to go with something like Stonington blend. Cheap and organic, that’s it.

“Curing” the soil is actually typically called cooking which is actually just composting. The length of time it takes depends on temperature, oxygen and water. At 80F it takes my mix 45 days to be ready. I keep it moist and turn it every couple days. Colder temperatures will take longer. Less oxygen and too much water or too little water will also take longer.

Never, ever, EVER, amend a soil with minerals and inputs then use it without cooking. You will overwhelm and fry your plants. The microbes need to work on those inputs, locking them up in their bodies and poop so it’s in a form that won’t overwhelm the plant.

You’re looking at around a 45 day minimum to cook the soil for use. Depending on how powerful your mix is and what your temps are this can vary widely. Some peoples mixes take 3-4 months to cook, mine like I said, is 45 days. I could get away with 30 but there’s no need.

Wow, thanks for the very involved response. Ok I get all you said. My spidey sense was correct. It has to cook. Sounds like what I do is make a whole crapload of soil, get it cooking in the appropriate location and temp and water content, and run one grow while it cooks. I can call it Jon’s Final Coco Grow, as I have four damn big bags of it to use up. A coco grow can be done inside of 120 days easy. That’s a four month cook. Based on what you said, by then it should be ready to go. I can then go “almost organic.”

Btw - I’ve only ever used Ocean Forest or Happy Frog. But FF makes like 15 different blends. If one is going to use FF as the base, it seems you all use Ocean Forest. How come that one in particular?

Thank you.

 

[Keffka]

Wow, thanks for the very involved response. Ok I get all you said. My spidey sense was correct. It has to cook. Sounds like what I do is make a whole crapload of soil, get it cooking in the appropriate location and temp and water content, and run one grow while it cooks. I can call it Jon’s Final Coco Grow, as I have four damn big bags of it to use up. A coco grow can be done inside of 120 days easy. That’s a four month cook. Based on what you said, by then it should be ready to go. I can then go “almost organic.”

Oh yeah, 4 months should be plenty. It’s a bit of time and effort to get the whole system going but once you do, it can be forever.

Btw - I’ve only ever used Ocean Forest or Happy Frog. But FF makes like 15 different blends. If one is going to use FF as the base, it seems you all use Ocean Forest. How come that one in particular?

Thank you.

I can’t speak for others on this but I chose FFOF for a few reasons the biggest ones being quality, cost, and availability. FFOF is their premium mix, has an acceptable quality, and is both relatively cheap and easily sourced for me. It has amendments I use so there’s synergy, and it doesn’t have anything extra I don’t want or need like myco and Humic acid.

I know that FFOF is also one of the base mixes The Rev from True Living Organics recommends in his book when detailing which potting mixes to start with so it makes it a lot easier to be able to stick to his recipes

 

[Gee64]

Rookie question: how does one measure leaf temperature?

I use a 20 dollar Costco IR thermometer gun

 

[Gee64]

Nice Keff! My thumb is sore from VPD'ing yesterday Im going to go have a coffee with Momma

 

[Keffka]

Nice Keff! My thumb is sore from VPD'ing yesterday Im going to go have a coffee with Momma

Lol some times I feel guilty when I see you’ve been holding class by yourself all day. Even silver foxes get worn out

 

[Gee64]

Lol some times I feel guilty when I see you’ve been holding class by yourself all day. Even silver foxes get worn out

Actually I'm an Arctic Blonde fox. Silver....sheesh

 

[Gee64]

Finally, its 6am.

If I smoke before 6 I have a problem correct?

But at 6 and I have shown enough restraint to be in control, correct?

 

[Jon]

Oh yeah, 4 months should be plenty. It’s a bit of time and effort to get the whole system going but once you do, it can be forever.



I can’t speak for others on this but I chose FFOF for a few reasons the biggest ones being quality, cost, and availability. FFOF is their premium mix, has an acceptable quality, and is both relatively cheap and easily sourced for me. It has amendments I use so there’s synergy, and it doesn’t have anything extra I don’t want or need like myco and Humic acid.

I know that FFOF is also one of the base mixes The Rev from True Living Organics recommends in his book when detailing which potting mixes to start with so it makes it a lot easier to be able to stick to his recipes

Awesome. Gracias.

 

[Gidorah]

Thats fair unless you're fishing, then pre 6am smoke is acceptable

 

[Jon]

Finally, its 6am.

If I smoke before 6 I have a problem correct?

But at 6 and I have shown enough restraint to be in control, correct?

Rookie. Try 5:30 then come talk to me.



I’m obsessive about getting up when the plants get up. That’s 6. But I need the half hour to make coffee, decide what strain to start the day with, walk the dog, etc. All that happens between 5:30 and 6:00. Then I’m ready to actually get high before tending to the girls. Lmao!

 

[Jon]

Rookie. Try 5:30 then come talk to me.



I’m obsessive about getting up when the plants get up. That’s 6. But I need the half hour to make coffee, decide what strain to start the day with, walk the dog, etc. All that happens between 5:30 and 6:00. Then I’m ready to actually get high before tending to the girls. Lmao!

Really wanna try growing some Chocolope. I have some photo seeds from Blimburn. Maybe get the coffee and morning bong hit in one fell swoop? Lol

 

[Gee64]

Rookie. Try 5:30 then come talk to me.



I’m obsessive about getting up when the plants get up. That’s 6. But I need the half hour to make coffee, decide what strain to start the day with, walk the dog, etc. All that happens between 5:30 and 6:00. Then I’m ready to actually get high before tending to the girls. Lmao!

And your on eastern time, so 230am my time. I bow to you Mr Spuccolli.