The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It

[Gee64]

Define normal.

Equal amongst my piers

 

[Thirvnrob]

lol yeah thats how most people misinterpret it. If you take that same cubic foot of air and cool it it shrinks, making it denser in moisture. So in reality, cold air is usually moister because its condensed. Thats the relative part of relative humidity

Man, I read this 10 times before it sunk in. It took me a minute to allow the word because to permeate my ADHD riddled brain. I think I finally got it, but to be sure, am I correct to assume the opposite is true? Hot air is drier because it was warmed? If I'm digesting this lesson properly, it means I'm out of purple kush

I'm in the process of catching up, but thanks for this information! This gives me a new strategy to growing in the stifling hot, humid summers here. I love manipulating...

 

[Carmen Ray]

Incidentally, Chocolope and Chocodope are the same, so @Jon are you growing a photoperiod version? I will be growing autos.

 

[Gee64]

Man, I read this 10 times before it sunk in. It took me a minute to allow the word because to permeate my ADHD riddled brain. I think I finally got it, but to be sure, am I correct to assume the opposite is true? Hot air is drier because it was warmed? If I'm digesting this lesson properly, it means I'm out of purple kush

I'm in the process of catching up, but thanks for this information! This gives me a new strategy to growing in the stifling hot, humid summers here. I love manipulating...

Yes, thats exactly it. If you take 1 cubic foot of air that is 50% RH, and warm it, it will expand. So lets say its now 2 cubic feet. It still only contains the same amount of moisture but that moisture is spread over 2 cubic feet, so it would now be 25%RH.

Thats the relative part to Relative Humidity (RH). The percentage is only relative to the current temperature. Warm the air or cool the air, and the RH will change.

So warmed air now has the ABILITY to hold more water because it was warmed, expanded, and is now drier. You wrung out the sponge.

Then there is the opposite. If you let that warmed expanded drier air sponge up until its 80% RH, and cool it so it shrinks, you will squeeze that moisture until it gets to 100% RH, and then fall out as rain. You cooled it, it shrunk, just like squeezing a wet sponge. Thats why a cold front brings rain, and air conditioned air is so dry.

Air conditioned air is air that was wrung out by being squeezed as it was shrunk from being cooled, and as it comes into your house and warms back up it absorbs moisture as it expands. Thats why portable air conditioners need to be constantly drained, they are air squeezers.

But you must remember the rule. Water always flows from wet to dry. That drier air will attract moisture because its drier. Heat it and it will expand and attract moisture even quicker.

Thats why clothes dryers use warm air. It attracts the moisture in your clothes and vents that warm wet air out, replacing it with warm dry air, which attracts more moisture, gets vented out, etc... so airflow is vital too.

So this process causes suction on moisture. Water flows from wet to dry.

Your rootball is wetter than the air, and there is a passage from the wet soil, into the root, thru the plant, past the photosynthesis department, and out the stomata on the leaves.

Air sucks water through the plant like a straw because its drier than the water in the soil.

VPD regulates that suction to control the speed of the nutrient water flow.

Don't overflow it or you will suck water in faster than the microbes can add the food and end up with not enough food in the water and deficiencies will arise.

In veg, the plant is expanding too, so you lower the VPD to compensate for the expanding plant. As you enter flower the plant stops expanding and its natural suction on the soil decreases, so you increse VPD to move nutrients.

You can increase it by warming the air OR warming the leaf OR lowering the humidity.

You can decrease it by the opposites.

Plants work best when the leaf is 2 degrees cooler than the air, so changing RH is the least destructive and easiest part of the 3 to adjust.

As the plant grows closer to the light its leaf temp differential will change from 2 degrees to 1 degree, so its time to raise your light a bit, or turn the dial down if you have a volume dial on it.

But in the morning when a plant wakes up, it has raised its internal temperature by manipulating the size of its stomata, the exhaust valves, so read and watch morning VPD, check leaf temps all day long, or after a watering, and learn how it changes, but don't adjust anything until you get a reading in late afternoon when the plant is running full speed. If you change VPD in the morning, you may end up over revving your plant in the afternoon.

Its the gas pedal to a plant.

Run too much VPD and you may run out of gas before harvest.

So play with it and follow a VPD chart for the stages of the grow. If you run out of gas before the finish line then you need a bigger pot or more nutritious soil.

Atmosphere is the only difference between indoor and outdoor growing. We come indoors to grow better weed.

Maximizing atmosphere is where the money is, otherwise you may as well only grow outdoors.

But we actually already kind of know this. Stoner logic says 76F in flower. Stoner logic says 48RH in flower. The plant will regulate its leaves to 74F.

Put those 3 numbers in a VPD calculator and you get VPD of 1.4. Perfect flower VPD.

But if nature says you can't have those numbers, VPD will allow you to run scenarios in the calculator to work around say a heat wave, or a dry air high pressure ridge, etc, simply by adjusting the other 2 variables.

Most stoner logic is rock solid if you investigate why it came to be.

 

[Jon]

Incidentally, Chocolope and Chocodope are the same, so @Jon are you growing a photoperiod version? I will be growing autos.

Hey @Carmen Ray, how you be? I have the Blimburn photo version. I didn’t know those two were the same - I guess Chocodope auto is Chocolope x Ruderalis?

 

[Jon]

Even at my age I'm often startled at how abnormal people think it is to smoke pot every day. I've been doing it for 48 years.

I've been keeping track over time, catching any polls they might release, and it seems that 1-2% of us have been daily users, pretty consistently. I haven't seen the recent ones - probably more now.

And ... if we've been daily users for decades ... we must be functional people that live amongst the "normals", right? I couldn't advertise it, so no one knew, but I was usually some degree of high at the time. And the other 1-2% around me did the same. Professionals. Accountants, pharmacists, attorneys, car dealers, you name it.

It's really nice to be able to meet so many of you here at 420Mag.

And as an aside ... why don't we ever see the experienced users in the media? Wouldn't our opinions be useful? I started smoking pot in 1968, and began to smoke daily in 1975. Maybe people like me could offer some experience and wisdom regarding cannabis use.

"Normal" people are by definition ignorant. They avoid interesting stuff. How would they know anything about stuff that isn't normal? They annoy the crap outta me, always have. Bleh.

Jus' sayin'.

(Just finished a bowl of Snow Moon - I kinda like it.)

Sweet soliloquy!

 

[Jon]

I think your remaining colas will be much bigger now. Its hard isn't it. Thats excellent worm food.

When you get a "closed loop" so to speak, where all your waste gets recycled so you can use your nutes again, it gets easy to over-prune lol. Circle of Life.

Thanks. I agree. And yes it’s hard. I hate taking bud sites. It’s something I know, for sure, works. It’s almost always a good thing to do the way I train. But yet every time I have a hard time doing it. Lmao.

Recycling - do you mean the cuttings pile? If I had a compost going I’d toss that in? Also all the stems and waste from a harvest?

 

[Gee64]

In the after shot, the only middles left are the ones you can see.

It will pay off down the road.

 

[Gee64]

Thanks G. I got hermies twice now in the past, always thought it was genetics and not so much environment. What in the environment induce hermies?

Any stress can really. Light stress is the biggie. Nature loves hermaphrodism. Too much light is stress. Too little is stress. Broken cycles is stress. Also deficiencies are stress. Any time a plant says WTF?? you risk hermies. Plants that advertise as hermy resistant are lower in hermy expression, but its still there. Stressing a plant by running it too fast for too long brings it out a lot.

 

[Gee64]

Oooh, I know a couple! Spikes is one. Repeated temperature or humidity spikes can sometimes do it. Also obviously the biggie is light leaks if you call that environment.

In my books, environment is Earth, wind, fire, and water.

 

[Jon]

Yes, thats exactly it. If you take 1 cubic foot of air that is 50% RH, and warm it, it will expand. So lets say its now 2 cubic feet. It still only contains the same amount of moisture but that moisture is spread over 2 cubic feet, so it would now be 25%RH.

Thats the relative part to Relative Humidity (RH). The percentage is only relative to the current temperature. Warm the air or cool the air, and the RH will change.

So warmed air now has the ABILITY to hold more water because it was warmed, expanded, and is now drier. You wrung out the sponge.

Then there is the opposite. If you let that warmed expanded drier air sponge up until its 80% RH, and cool it so it shrinks, you will squeeze that moisture until it gets to 100% RH, and then fall out as rain. You cooled it, it shrunk, just like squeezing a wet sponge. Thats why a cold front brings rain, and air conditioned air is so dry.

Air conditioned air is air that was wrung out by being squeezed as it was shrunk from being cooled, and as it comes into your house and warms back up it absorbs moisture as it expands. Thats why portable air conditioners need to be constantly drained, they are air squeezers.

But you must remember the rule. Water always flows from wet to dry. That drier air will attract moisture because its drier. Heat it and it will expand and attract moisture even quicker.

Thats why clothes dryers use warm air. It attracts the moisture in your clothes and vents that warm wet air out, replacing it with warm dry air, which attracts more moisture, gets vented out, etc... so airflow is vital too.

So this process causes suction on moisture. Water flows from wet to dry.

Your rootball is wetter than the air, and there is a passage from the wet soil, into the root, thru the plant, past the photosynthesis department, and out the stomata on the leaves.

Air sucks water through the plant like a straw because its drier than the water in the soil.

VPD regulates that suction to control the speed of the nutrient water flow.

Don't overflow it or you will suck water in faster than the microbes can add the food and end up with not enough food in the water and deficiencies will arise.

In veg, the plant is expanding too, so you lower the VPD to compensate for the expanding plant. As you enter flower the plant stops expanding and its natural suction on the soil decreases, so you increse VPD to move nutrients.

You can increase it by warming the air OR warming the leaf OR lowering the humidity.

You can decrease it by the opposites.

Plants work best when the leaf is 2 degrees cooler than the air, so changing RH is the least destructive and easiest part of the 3 to adjust.

As the plant grows closer to the light its leaf temp differential will change from 2 degrees to 1 degree, so its time to raise your light a bit, or turn the dial down if you have a volume dial on it.

But in the morning when a plant wakes up, it has raised its internal temperature by manipulating the size of its stomata, the exhaust valves, so read and watch morning VPD, check leaf temps all day long, or after a watering, and learn how it changes, but don't adjust anything until you get a reading in late afternoon when the plant is running full speed. If you change VPD in the morning, you may end up over revving your plant in the afternoon.

Its the gas pedal to a plant.

Run too much VPD and you may run out of gas before harvest.

So play with it and follow a VPD chart for the stages of the grow. If you run out of gas before the finish line then you need a bigger pot or more nutritious soil.

Atmosphere is the only difference between indoor and outdoor growing. We come indoors to grow better weed.

Maximizing atmosphere is where the money is, otherwise you may as well only grow outdoors.

But we actually already kind of know this. Stoner logic says 76F in flower. Stoner logic says 48RH in flower. The plant will regulate its leaves to 74F.

Put those 3 numbers in a VPD calculator and you get VPD of 1.4. Perfect flower VPD.

But if nature says you can't have those numbers, VPD will allow you to run scenarios in the calculator to work around say a heat wave, or a dry air high pressure ridge, etc, simply by adjusting the other 2 variables.

Most stoner logic is rock solid if you investigate why it came to be.

Wow. Awesome. So a plant works best if the leaves are 2 degrees cooler than the air, eh? Hmm. And one checks leaf temp with an IR thermometer. Okay. But you also said this:


You can increase it by warming the air OR warming the leaf OR lowering the humidity.

How does one warm the leaf?

 

[Jon]

In my books, environment is Earth, wind, fire, and water.

You can be so shaman-esque at times Gee…

 

[Gee64]

Even at my age I'm often startled at how abnormal people think it is to smoke pot every day. I've been doing it for 48 years.

I've been keeping track over time, catching any polls they might release, and it seems that 1-2% of us have been daily users, pretty consistently. I haven't seen the recent ones - probably more now.

And ... if we've been daily users for decades ... we must be functional people that live amongst the "normals", right? I couldn't advertise it, so no one knew, but I was usually some degree of high at the time. And the other 1-2% around me did the same. Professionals. Accountants, pharmacists, attorneys, car dealers, you name it.

It's really nice to be able to meet so many of you here at 420Mag.

And as an aside ... why don't we ever see the experienced users in the media? Wouldn't our opinions be useful? I started smoking pot in 1968, and began to smoke daily in 1975. Maybe people like me could offer some experience and wisdom regarding cannabis use.

"Normal" people are by definition ignorant. They avoid interesting stuff. How would they know anything about stuff that isn't normal? They annoy the crap outta me, always have. Bleh.

Jus' sayin'.

(Just finished a bowl of Snow Moon - I kinda like it.)

So you know what real Columbian Gold and real Hawaiian Bluegrass is then. You also remember the thrill of when Skunkweed appeared. And of course, how Humbolt County literally changed the world

 

[Jon]

So Gee, or anyone else who knows, is there anything special or different I need to do on the Saturday feeding as the Geo girls flip? It’s a full Bloom nute/EWC/a little Veg nutes, watered in with RGR, kelp and wholly mackerel the way I see it for all the plants. Does this sound okay or is there something more (or less) I should do?

Thanks!

 

[Gee64]

Thanks. I agree. And yes it’s hard. I hate taking bud sites. It’s something I know, for sure, works. It’s almost always a good thing to do the way I train. But yet every time I have a hard time doing it. Lmao.

Recycling - do you mean the cuttings pile? If I had a compost going I’d toss that in? Also all the stems and waste from a harvest?

I do mean compost. Its full of available nutrients that you have already purchased. Use it again.

 

[Gee64]

Wow. Awesome. So a plant works best if the leaves are 2 degrees cooler than the air, eh? Hmm. And one checks leaf temp with an IR thermometer. Okay. But you also said this:


You can increase it by warming the air OR warming the leaf OR lowering the humidity.

How does one warm the leaf?

by moving the light closer. Heat is a byproduct of photosynthesis much the same way its a byproduct of using muscles.

 

[Jon]

So you know what real Columbian Gold and real Hawaiian Bluegrass is then. You also remember the thrill of when Skunkweed appeared. And of course, how Humbolt County literally changed the world

Jeez aren’t we all around 60 here? Remember that lime green, big round bud bags of the Humboldt? At the time it blew away everything else we ever got, least for me it did. When I finally made it to Cali to see the Dead in the early 80s I suddenly found heaven.

 

[Gee64]

by moving the light closer. Heat is a byproduct of photosynthesis much the same way its a byproduct of using muscles.

or with little blankies

 

[Jon]

by moving the light closer. Heat is a byproduct of photosynthesis much the same way its a byproduct of using muscles.

Duh. Of course. Silly me. I was thinking it was some specialized little leaf heater thing.

 

[StoneOtter]

Oh yeah, 4 months should be plenty. It’s a bit of time and effort to get the whole system going but once you do, it can be forever.



I can’t speak for others on this but I chose FFOF for a few reasons the biggest ones being quality, cost, and availability. FFOF is their premium mix, has an acceptable quality, and is both relatively cheap and easily sourced for me. It has amendments I use so there’s synergy, and it doesn’t have anything extra I don’t want or need like myco and Humic acid.

I know that FFOF is also one of the base mixes The Rev from True Living Organics recommends in his book when detailing which potting mixes to start with so it makes it a lot easier to be able to stick to his recipes

I use FFOF as base for my LOS too.