The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It

[Gee64]

Warm air has the "ability" to hold more moisture, meaning it is usually drier. Cold air has less "ability" to hold more moisture, meaning it is usually wetter.

Edit: @Absorber we were talking at the same time so I tagged you. I think you may have missed this post.

 

[Gee64]

So a wet rootball and cold moist air means very little moisture gradient between soil and air, and water movement slows. Dry the cold air and the plant speeds back up.

 

[Gee64]

So on a hot day, if temps plummet, thunder is coming. Rain and wind too. As the air shrinks water condenses, and wind rushes in to fill the space created by the shrinkage.

 

[Gee64]

The best example is a clothes dryer. It uses hot air to absorb the moisture from your clothes. It can do this because hot air is drier than cold air. Otherwise it would use cold air to dry them.

 

[Gee64]

So now to what @Keffka has been saying. A warmer grow room makes Living soil work better.

He is 100% correct.

The living soil functions better when its warmer.

So if you toss in a heater and crank up the microbes, using VPD allows all that microbial goodness to be properly put through the plant.

That usually means if you increase temps, you should probably increase RH.

The calculator will guide you.

 

[Gee64]

Also, if you immediately are thinking "Sweet! Imma crank VPD way up and grow these Ladies hard", well here is what will happen.

If you actually have the ability to photosynthesize that hard, fly at it, but in reality you will suck water out faster than the system can get nutritious water in, and plain soil water sucks in instead, and you end up starving your plant.

Speed is directly linked to the ratio of rootball size/ability to the amount of foliage it can support.

This is how I can prune out 75% of a plant and everyone gasps, but the plant says thanks and excels.

I lower VPD, let the plant slow down, hack it back, give it a day or 2, then speed up the giant rootball (giant on the ratio to foliage after the hacking) to increase nutrients as the plant accelerates.

My high brix readings allow the remaining foliage to supply the microbes with sugar.

If you did this with low brix it would be one of those opportune moments to add a sugary tea to offset the lack of exudates.

Thats why I give my 1st tea at the same time I remove all the side branching.

Things should be starting to make sense to the new growers now as too whats going on in the plants life.

 

[Gee64]

And it takes a bit to wrap your head around it, so please ask questions.

 

[Absorber]

No questions just yet you have explained it very well

 

[GanjaGardener1]

Or pulled out and sold like fish oil for pills.


Correct. And do it at ambient temperatures, and ideally the ambient temp of your plant(s). You want to cultivate the microbes that will thrive in the plants' environment, not one 20* cooler like if you brew in the basement but the grow is two stories up.


Fish tank air stones are commonly used, but they're not the best because they're hard to clean. Making the teas will leave a biofilm on everything it touches and if you don't clean it promptly you'll have it on there forever. And that provides real estate for anaerobic microbes to take hold is not what you want. You could just replace them regularly, or clean them really well right after you use them.

Also, be sure to plug them in before lowering into the water. You don't want stuff being absorbed into the stone since you won't be able to clean it.


Yes, but like Gee said, on some sort of catch pan. I do mine on an upturned garbage can lid which has worked fine.

Some put all of the ingredients in a bag of some sort like a paint strainer bag. If you do that it's best to have an air stone in the bag as well. That will keep most of the solids out of the final mix. Otherwise you can strain it after if you were running it through something that could clog like a sprayer or watering can.

Not quite as good as letting everything free mix, but the air stone in the bag (and another on the bottom of the bucket) will do just fine.

Hey Azimuth, thanks for the detailed info on fish emulsion and air stones. Totally get the part about cleaning the stones to avoid any anaerobic microbes. Got a question though, how often do you brew your teas? And any favorite recipes?

I thought cold air was denser and held more moisture

Hey Absorber! That's a common thought, and it's fascinating how the dynamics of moisture and temperature play out, right? What kind of conditions are you working with in your setup? Always eager to learn more from fellow growers.

 

[Sparkey224]

Indoors:
Well, I don't need to run my dehumidifier during the winter time( less humidity for me) but hurts yield a little bit with colder temps
Summer time, more yield but really need to watch RH. So, I think high RH and temps aren't a good combination.

Regardless of medium

 

[Gee64]

Indoors:
Well, I don't need to run my dehumidifier during the winter time( less humidity for me) but hurts yield a little bit with colder temps
Summer time, more yield but really need to watch RH. So, I think high RH and temps aren't a good combination.

Regardless of medium

If you are referring to this post,


"That usually means if you increase temps, you should probably increase RH"

well if your operating at 72F and 40 RH and crank it up to 85F and don't raise RH, well... try it. But also run a 2nd grow beside it and raise RH and improve air movement accordingly, and see which is better.

No 2nd grow and your opinion doesn't hold much weight, its just an opinion. 2nd grow results, I'm all ears

 

[Sparkey224]

If you are referring to this post,


"That usually means if you increase temps, you should probably increase RH"

well if your operating at 72F and 40 RH and crank it up to 85F and don't raise RH, well... try it. But also run a 2nd grow beside it and raise RH and improve air movement accordingly, and see which is better.

No 2nd grow and your opinion doesn't hold much weight, its just an opinion. 2nd grow results, I'm all ears

No doubt bro, not trying to prove a point but think that's a very board statement based on your situation. Definitely agree with any environment 72 is too low for 40 RH.
Think everything has to do with geography indoors or outdoors.
Much love not trying to fight.
Definitely need low RH later in flowering no matter where you are located.
Sorry for the hyjack

 

[Sparkey224]

I didn't mean to sound like a dick brother! I'll dip out of the journal it's your show!

 

[Gee64]

I didn't mean to sound like a dick brother! I'll dip out of the journal it's your show!

No no your not a dick lol. And please don't leave. And I have seen your plants, hard not to respect that.

You didnt quote anything so I wasnt sure what you were referring to. And your a synthetic guy and they all love to argue. I assumed... I apologize for that one.

All that I posted was examples of how VPD works. Your 100% always welcome.

Understanding VPD helps you understand whats happening and how it effects plants. At a certain point we are all at the mercy of the Gods. You can only do so much.

Its the day to day fluctuations that make or break a grow. But if something spikes, you now know how to deal with it. Plug it into the calculator and go from there.

You can easily be successful at 80% RH if you adjust VPD and add a lot of air movement.

Sativas came from the steamy jungles.

I grow at over 100F in my tent every summer. I have to flood the floor but it works. I have an algae bloom on my tent floor every August.

Its just another tool. Like brix, its trackable.

 

[Graytail]

I have an algae bloom on my tent floor every August.

Been there. Gets kinda humid in there. I have a fairly primitive space to work in, and I found that mine performs much better if I pack it with transpiring leaves. And I have a concrete floor so I can soak the pots to runoff, let it spill on the floor, and keep the humidity nice and high.

But then I grow algae, too.

 

[Gidorah]

Thanks Gee, the VPD info is something i want to take a look at now that you've helped shed light on it and made it easier to understand

 

[Azimuth]

Got a question though, how often do you brew your teas? And any favorite recipes?

Honestly I don't brew them all that much lately as I have been focused on my Jadam extracts.

 

[Absorber]

Hey Azimuth, thanks for the detailed info on fish emulsion and air stones. Totally get the part about cleaning the stones to avoid any anaerobic microbes. Got a question though, how often do you brew your teas? And any favorite recipes?

Hey Absorber! That's a common thought, and it's fascinating how the dynamics of moisture and temperature play out, right? What kind of conditions are you working with in your setup? Always eager to learn more from fellow growers.

You first

 

[Gee64]

Thanks Gee, the VPD info is something i want to take a look at now that you've helped shed light on it and made it easier to understand

If you need any assistance I have walked a lot of online VPD streets, so I may not have the exact answer you need, but for sure I can point you in a direction. The best VPD calculator I have found is in the google play store and suprisingly enough, its called VPD Calculator lol.

Its simple. No frills. I use it to run scenarios when things go awry and then pick the best route out.

If you get bored, just throw numbers into it and see if the plant speeds up or slows down. It will help you understand environmental variables.

If you can hold a steady 1.4 with a 2 degree leaf difference in flower, turn up the light a little bit, then adjust parameters to get it to 1.4 after the leaves get used to the added light and settle at a 2 degree difference again. Usually the next day.

When you hit the wall and can't get the 2 degree difference, it means you have reached the limits of how much the rootball can supply the plant.

Don't go beyond that or you starve the plant by oversynthesizing and not being able to supply the photosynthesis department adequately.

You have just found the plants max. All strains and phenos have different max points.

 

[Gee64]

Day 3 of Flower

The casulties of war.

I gave the plants a tea a few hours before the lights died. Then under the 100w rescue strips photosynthesis pretty much stopped.

The nutes just sat in the leaf arteries when they should have been processed by the photosynthesis department, but couldn't be under the small lights..

In organics, food in the fluids of a plant is actually micro-solids. If you overfeed, or under photosynthesize, those solids get pushed past the photosynthesis dept unprocessed, and end up getting jammed into the crevices at the end of the arteries. The leaf tips.

They build up until they form a caking, and as the caking thickens it dries out.

Once its drier than the leaf tissue it pulls moisture from the leaf tips into the caking, causing the burnt colored tips.

This isn't what I wanted but lets all benefit from it.

If you tea a plant too strong for how its photosynthesizing at the time, now you know why the tips burn, and can work around it next time.

errr, I mean I purposely sabotaged my own light to make this demo. You mofos owe me!

Yeah, thats it