The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It

[Jon]

Also, bat guano was mentioned, but I know there’s others, like seabird guano and shit, rofl and since this tea will be for flower, anyone have a suggestion on the best type of poop to use?

And is it even worth the hassle at this point for what? Two or three applications throughout flower? Yoda said don’t over do the tea, but didn’t specify what that meant. Maybe it would be better to learn some more, figure out what’s what, and start teas with the first PA (next) grow? I mean, I see having to spend three digits to make this damn stuff.

 

[Gee64]

Also, bat guano was mentioned, but I know there’s others, like seabird guano and shit, rofl and since this tea will be for flower, anyone have a suggestion on the best type of poop to use?

When I started growing weed a bunch of years ago there was a global shortage of high phos bat guano.

I was poking around in a surplus store and the guy had stacks of it. I bought it all, so I still have some.

For that reason I have never tried others. I only use high P guano.

Nitrogen is easy peasy. Its in all the meals, the air, the ewc. Its easy to overdo nitrogen.

 

[Jon]

Thats what I do. I bubble my buckets in the bath tub. It bubbles over and spits a mist. Myself, I add all the minerals and meals on day 1 and start it bubbling. On day 2 I add BSM and EWC and bubble for another 18-24:hours. I add hydrolosate seperately and weekly, but if I were adding it to the tea you could add it at any point. I only use 1 or 2 teas per grow. Once you have his soil recipe the tea will make more sense, as its likely customized to his soil/style. Its a great looking tea.

Thanks! I have a photo of all his bags of the soil recipe laid out. But there’s so many bags that six of them are illegible. He hasn’t gotten back to me on those six bags yet, and I didn’t want to post incomplete.

 

[Gee64]

Ah! You just use air stones to bubble it! No heat, no cooking. Is that correct? He does his in 300 gallon batches and I posted the picture one time of his tank bubbling over exactly as you described, but I assumed it was boiling. Just bubbling! I have a three air stones including the biggie 8” alpha dog (our buddy Rexer told me one time it was the big boy for larger applications). So just mix all this, a couple of stones in the bottom of the bucket, and let it bubble with no lid, yes?

Thanks!!

Exactly

 

[Gee64]

And is it even worth the hassle at this point for what? Two or three applications throughout flower? Yoda said don’t over do the tea, but didn’t specify what that meant. Maybe it would be better to learn some more, figure out what’s what, and start teas with the first PA (next) grow? I mean, I see having to spend three digits to make this damn stuff.

I agree on not overdoing it. Its a boost. You don't want the system dependant on it. However, if your plants get too big, or you messed up your mix and deficiencies or starvation sets in, teas will get you to harvest. Most tea ingredients are already in the base mix, so if you build his soil recipe, its likely you will have most of his tea ingredients as well. Other than the liquids like kelp and molasses.

 

[Keffka]

I’m gonna rock the boat

Personally I don’t do teas. They’re unnecessary in healthy, balanced containers. The original purpose of teas was to get microbes to come back to an area that has been a wasteland for life. This means outdoors in the ground where synthetics have been used, where monoculture has killed off diversity, or an area humans have decimated and never revived. They weren’t designed with container growing in mind which is why almost all recipes call for large quantities laid down with large sprayers.

In containers of soil you have cooked up yourself, a tea should never be more than an enhancer at best. If you’re leaning on teas to fix issues or provide something, you’ve screwed up your mix somewhere along the way, or went too big. Most growers have many other things they can fix that will yield far greater results than introducing teas. If you’re under LEDs and not running close to 85F, do that and you’ll see much better results than any tea will give you. Give your plants low ppm (50 ppm) aerated Dolomite lime water. Increase your airflow, add extra aeration to your mix, find higher quality EWC, start a worm farm, etc.

There are so many other things that should be dialed in for container growing before teas are introduced. @Gee64 and I talked a little yesterday about how I often forget how much information we’ve studied and assume many are on a similar level. Gees teas (I’ve trademarked that name already @Gee64 ) are similar to this. They are a result of someone who has been growing in the same soils, with the same strains, for years. He already has a worm farm established and an entire setup that has been dialed in over years of trial and error. He is at a point where a tea is one of the few variables he can use to enhance his grows. I assume the same goes for Jons Yoda, years of dialing in and crafting.

For the rest of the growers who haven’t reached this point, a tea isn’t going to deliver anywhere close to the results that they will for someone like Gee, I mean for fuck sake, the guy has custom stitched and shaped containers for his grows Most growers would be better off focusing in on sourcing higher quality inputs, and dialing in their environments

 

[Gee64]

I’m gonna rock the boat

Personally I don’t do teas. They’re unnecessary in healthy, balanced containers. The original purpose of teas was to get microbes to come back to an area that has been a wasteland for life. This means outdoors in the ground where synthetics have been used, where monoculture has killed off diversity, or an area humans have decimated and never revived. They weren’t designed with container growing in mind which is why almost all recipes call for large quantities laid down with large sprayers.

In containers of soil you have cooked up yourself, a tea should never be more than an enhancer at best. If you’re leaning on teas to fix issues or provide something, you’ve screwed up your mix somewhere along the way. Most growers have many other things they can fix that will yield far greater results than introducing teas. If you’re under LEDs and not running close to 85F, do that and you’ll see much better results than any tea will give you. Give your plants low ppm (50 ppm) aerated Dolomite lime water. Increase your airflow, add extra aeration to your mix, find higher quality EWC, start a worm farm, etc.

There are so many other things that should be dialed in for container growing before teas are introduced. @Gee64 and I talked a little yesterday about how I often forget how much information we’ve studied and assume many are on a similar level. Gees teas (I’ve trademarked that name already @Gee64 ) are similar to this. They are a result of someone who has been growing in the same soils, with the same strains, for years. He already has a worm farm established and an entire setup that has been dialed in over years of trial and error. He is at a point where a tea is one of the few variables he can use to enhance his grows. I assume the same goes for Jons Yoda, years of dialing in and crafting.

For the rest of the growers who haven’t reached this point, a tea isn’t going to deliver anywhere close to the results that they will for someone like Gee, I mean for fuck sake, the guy has custom stitched and shaped containers for his grows Most growers would be better off focusing in on sourcing higher quality inputs, and dialing in their environments

Lol you are correct but, and its a biggie, most take a few organic grows to work their system out, and teas will get them to the end.

If you take the ewc (microbes) out, and the molasses needed to support those microbes, all a tea really is, is a liquid version of your soil.

I add microbes and give it at about the 30 day mark for a very specific reason. I like to let the soil become fungal dominant as the rootball grows. Once the myco has built my roots, then I introduce extra microbes.

I don't have to use all the nutritional additives but, and again, its a biggie, all those microbes in the tea need a home.

Until they find a home in the pot they need to eat so if I don't turn them loose with a free feeding, I may as well not even add them.

Once myco establishes its kingdom I want lots of workers. If that happens to run my pot out of nutes then I will tea to the finish with soil ingredients but no microbes or molasses.

If I lose my leaves, I waited too long so I will include microbes and molasses.

But the tea itself shouldn't be far off the soil mix unless the strain you are growing likes a particular additive at a particular time for a particular reason.

A good example is sulphur. Some strains are greatly enhanced by a dose of sulphur in flower to bring out the smells and tastes.

You cant successfully dump it on the soil so a tea works great.

All that being said, I have completed a few successful grows without teas, just to see, but they are better with at least 1 in veg, and sometimes a 2nd later on if things look sluggish.

And sooner or later every grower hits the wall. Have your tea ingredients ready, or go to the dispensary. Your call.

Once you know how to rescue, you can play

 

[Gee64]

Day 2 of Flower

The plants are telling me they can handle more light.

The 3 degree difference means I need to add light to up leaf temps so I went from 600 PPFD to 650 PPFD.

A 2 degree difference is optimal.

They are still a little cold but are rebounding well.

It's nice to have a volume dial on this light, before I had to raise and lower the plants to adjust this.

I still havent watered since my light crashed but they are revving again so I will today.

 

[Azimuth]

Ok I thought it might have been a device with a nutrient release.
thanks

Nope. Literally make 4 holes about 3/4 of the way down into the pot and then fill them with the mixes Otter posted.

 

[Sparkey224]

Man you organic guys talk a lot..lol..
Jesus

 

[Azimuth]

Fish emulsion, the rancid super stinky one, is cooked to speed the process, but a lot of oils and enzymes get destroyed

Or pulled out and sold like fish oil for pills.

Ah! You just use air stones to bubble it! No heat, no cooking. Is that correct?

Correct. And do it at ambient temperatures, and ideally the ambient temp of your plant(s). You want to cultivate the microbes that will thrive in the plants' environment, not one 20* cooler like if you brew in the basement but the grow is two stories up.

I have a three air stones including the biggie 8” alpha dog (our buddy Rexer told me one time it was the big boy for larger applications). So

Fish tank air stones are commonly used, but they're not the best because they're hard to clean. Making the teas will leave a biofilm on everything it touches and if you don't clean it promptly you'll have it on there forever. And that provides real estate for anaerobic microbes to take hold is not what you want. You could just replace them regularly, or clean them really well right after you use them.

Also, be sure to plug them in before lowering into the water. You don't want stuff being absorbed into the stone since you won't be able to clean it.

So just mix all this, a couple of stones in the bottom of the bucket, and let it bubble with no lid, yes?

Yes, but like Gee said, on some sort of catch pan. I do mine on an upturned garbage can lid which has worked fine.

Some put all of the ingredients in a bag of some sort like a paint strainer bag. If you do that it's best to have an air stone in the bag as well. That will keep most of the solids out of the final mix. Otherwise you can strain it after if you were running it through something that could clog like a sprayer or watering can.

Not quite as good as letting everything free mix, but the air stone in the bag (and another on the bottom of the bucket) will do just fine.

 

[Gee64]

Or pulled out and sold like fish oil for pills.


Correct. And do it at ambient temperatures, and ideally the ambient temp of your plant(s). You want to cultivate the microbes that will thrive in the plants' environment, not one 20* cooler like if you brew in the basement but the grow is two stories up.


Fish tank air stones are commonly used, but they're not the best because they're hard to clean. Making the teas will leave a biofilm on everything it touches and if you don't clean it promptly you'll have it on there forever. And that provides real estate for anaerobic microbes to take hold is not what you want. You could just replace them regularly, or clean them really well right after you use them.

Also, be sure to plug them in before lowering into the water. You don't want stuff being absorbed into the stone since you won't be able to clean it.


Yes, but like Gee said, on some sort of catch pan. I do mine on an upturned garbage can lid which has worked fine.

Some put all of the ingredients in a bag of some sort like a paint strainer bag. If you did that it's best to have an air stone in the bag as well. That will keep most of the solids out of the final mix. Otherwise you can strain it after if you were running it through something that could clog like a sprayer or watering can.

Not quite as good as letting everything free mix, but the air stone in the bag (and another on the bottom of the bucket) will do just fine.

I don't use a tea bag. I stir the tea up and dip a jar in, pour it into the plant, stir the tea up, dip the jar in,.... All the goodies end up in the pot that way. Yoda probably sprays his tea as he has a big operation, so he needs it particle free.

 

[Gee64]

50 ppd has quite an effect, and thats with an extra point of RH. If the RH was still 56, it would be 1.33.

When the plant regulates itself to a leaf temp of 76, it will drop back to 1.20. Then I can increase PPFD again.

 

[Gee64]

Man you organic guys talk a lot..lol..
Jesus

We are all the same AI, talking amongst ourself.....

 

[Gee64]

Are the VPD targets per Plant Phase specific to strains? Or is that a general chart?

Sorry Jon, I missed this. Its a general chart.

 

[Gee64]

Grab a coffee.

VPD - It pops up as a topic from time to time. Here is a quick rundown on my understanding of it. Totally open to conversation and debate, as I haven't gone deep into it.

I researched it and thought "Holy Cow! Why isn't this more talked about?!"

Its like the one thing that unifies indoor growing in any situation, and you can download a calculator for free to remove the math!

You can literally adjust to any situation. Its a way to speed up or slow down water transpiration through the plant, and water carries food, so more food means more plant.

Vapor Pressure Defecit - VPD.

It is the difference between the internal water pressure in a plant, and the humidity in the air around the plant. Water always moves from wet to dry. In through the roots, out through the stomata (leaves).

So if your light is adjusted properly (correct rate of photosynthesis) your full leaves at the top of the plant will be 2 degrees cooler than ambient air.

So lets assume that is correct. Now the plant is photosynthesizing correctly.

VPD can speed up or slow down that correct rate of PS (photosynthesis) simply by raising or lowering the RH of the room, or by raising or lowering the temperature of the room, or by moving the light to change the rate of PS.

Its a triangle of adjustments. Its complicated without a calculator, as it has a formula which we wont bring up, because VPD calculators are free.

So if you are in Canada like me, and its colder, you could easily have a 72F environment in your tent. If you are in Florida like Jon you could easily have an 85F environment in your tent. VPD will allow both scenarios to grow weed the same.

Cold Canada

Hot Florida

As you can see, the end result of .98 kpa is the same in both scenarios. The plants are both moving water at the same speed.

So no matter where you live, you can dial in your atmosphere to make the plant happy. It makes an enormous difference. Once the atmosphere is dialed in so many tail chasing events disappear.

Its a lot deeper than that but in its basics, thats how it works.

Everyone who grows in a tent should study this a bit, then adjust your light to get a 2 degree difference, and then adjust your RH to get the desired VPD.

If nothing else at least you now know how high to hang your light.

I have my exhaust fan hooked to an Inkbird RH controller that is wireless to my phone so I can adjust this any time I please. If temps spike while Im travelling, I adjust. If they plummet, I adjust. The food keeps flowing optimally.

If you have never used VPD, I suggest you give it a go. You will love the simplicity of it. All you need is an IR thermometer gun.

Costco sells them for about 20 dollars.

Now heres the good part... You check your leaf temps on your 4 plants.

Plant 1 - 2 degree difference.
Plant 2 - 2 degree difference.
Plant 3 - 2 degree difference.
Plant 4 - 1 degree difference.

Plant 4 is running hot. It literally has a fever. Now you can try to fix it before you see any detrimental signs. I check temps every day at about the same time. Usually if a plant runs hot it needs water.

Whooda Thunk?

We put so much blood,sweat, tears, and money into our plants, and for 20 bucks at Costco we can now improve their lives drastically, and be able to listen to them.

You can download VPD charts all over the 'net. They are all the same. Grab a chart, a calculator, and an IR thermometer, and go drastically improve your grow from day 1 to harvest...... for 20 bucks

Now when you hear someone say "I must have a problem, my plants aren't moving water" or "This grow is wicked good! These babies move so much water!" this is what they are talking about.

When I can't keep the RH in my tent up to the desired level, I know its time to water.

Proper water movement creates its own RH. A controlled fan removes the excess.

If you have powdery mildew, this is a great way out of it.

 

[Gee64]

Here is a tidbit on RH that most know, but some don't and it pertains to VPD, so I will add it in as its very important to know.

Warm and cool air.

If you have 70 degree air at 50% RH in a sealed room, and you raise the temp, the air will expand, but no new moisture has been introduced because the room is sealed. So you now have more cubic feet of air and the same amount of moisture.

RH has to drop as there is now less moisture in a cubic foot of air.

What does this mean?

Warm air has the ability to hold more moisture.

Its a drier sponge, so the higher you raise your grow tent temps, the faster VPD will run if you don't raise your RH, and the opposite for colder temps.

This makes RH control the easiest way to maintain your desired VPD. As temps fluctuate, you simply adjust your RH to whatever your calculator tells you to, and plant speed is maintained.

Now VPD is simple

 

[Absorber]

I thought cold air was denser and held more moisture

 

[Gee64]

I thought cold air was denser and held more moisture

lol yeah thats how most people misinterpret it. If you take that same cubic foot of air and cool it it shrinks, making it denser in moisture. So in reality, cold air is usually moister because its condensed. Thats the relative part of relative humidity.

 

[Gee64]

So if your temp plummets in your tent you need to lower humidity to maintain VPD. Download a calculator and play around with it. Toss in any numbers and see how it goes. Its pretty cool.