The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It

[Thirvnrob]

Some random outdoor shots in some cool evening skies.

and a bug.

Maybe I would like to be your neighbor…

 

[Gee64]

Maybe I would like to be your neighbor…

Bring trimmers

 

[Thirvnrob]

Bring trimmers

Never mind…

 

[Thirvnrob]

the Sour Diesel has seeds. There are 5 plants in the flower room. None of the other 3 have seeds - 2 of them are autos & supposedly finishing up. That leaves just the Green Crack for me to worry about. If it’s a pollination thing, why isn’t the Green Crack seeding? If it’s a hermaphrodite, why no nanners or balls? I’m pretty confused. I’ve noticed one of the girls foxtailing @ I’m seeing the beginnings of calyx towers. I don’t really want to Chuck the plants & at this point, there’s no more damage to be done anyway. There’s gotta be something about the environment - this is the third time it’s happened. I might have to shut down & start over…

 

[Kaldean]

Mine says the same. The app I use is called "VPD Calculator" by cannafused life at the Google Play Store.

I think they should all work, they likely use the exact same formula.

If you are at 1.23 you have room to improve but not drastically. You're in a fairly good spot but if your PPFD meter says you can safely turn the light up a bit, a 1 degree increase in leaf temps would give you a 1.35 which is really close to optimal.

A 2 degree increase in leaf temps would be bang on at 1.46 but make sure your plants can handle that much light 1st.

Check the PPFD before you try increasing it.

1.46 is almost dangerous, personally I try not to go over 1.40 for extended periods.

Great, I just needed to check to get any doubt out my head , thanks @Gee64
And yeah I still haven’t calibrated the app to my light yet, I’m finding it hard tbh cos me lights on is back to front from what it usually is, they come on late and im pretty much knackered
I will try tonight, thanks mate

 

[Gee64]

the Sour Diesel has seeds. There are 5 plants in the flower room. None of the other 3 have seeds - 2 of them are autos & supposedly finishing up. That leaves just the Green Crack for me to worry about. If it’s a pollination thing, why isn’t the Green Crack seeding? If it’s a hermaphrodite, why no nanners or balls? I’m pretty confused. I’ve noticed one of the girls foxtailing @ I’m seeing the beginnings of calyx towers. I don’t really want to Chuck the plants & at this point, there’s no more damage to be done anyway. There’s gotta be something about the environment - this is the third time it’s happened. I might have to shut down & start over…

Any chance a neighbors outdoor grow is pollinating? I made seeds in the back yard once and my indoor tent ended up pregnant.

 

[Carmen Ray]

I'm not a light expert by any means, but dli is a valuable tool. In my mind its should actually be LLI, Lifetime Light Integral. Then divide the amount of light a plant uses in it's lifetime into daily amounts.

By that math, autos at 90 days of life require far more light on a daily basis than photo's on a 120 day lifespan would require, if your goal was to give both the auto and the photo the same amount of light over it's lifetime.

Now that's just Gee Theory, but autos at 1150PPFD vs photo's at 950PPFD get about 15% more light on a daily basis and live 25% less, so it gets pretty close.

Auto's still use more on a daily basis but they get 18 hour days so if you break it down into 90 days at 18 hours light for autos, vs 28 days at 16 hours, 28 days at 18 hours, and 70 days at 12 hours for photo's, photos get 10% more light if PPFD is the same, so if you up autos 10% in light intensity then it works out to the same over each plants lifetime.

So 1000 PPFD on a photo really is equal to 1100PPFD on an auto. Give or take a bit, but in general it makes sense that autos can handle more light.

Then toss in different tolerances for different strains and 1150 PPFD makes total acceptable sense.

The real question is did Gee Theory make sense?

I'm not sure Gee, the DLI recommended for autos is different than for photos. This Cream Mandarin auto is a particular light hog in my experience. Others have not tolerated this much light. I just don't want foxtails etc.

This is for autos

This is for photos

 

[Thirvnrob]

Any chance a neighbors outdoor grow is pollinating? I made seeds in the back yard once and my indoor tent ended up pregnant.

I’ve wondered that myself. Not out of the realm of possibility, but I don’t believe anyone in the near vicinity is growing…

 

[Thirvnrob]

I'm not sure Gee, the DLI recommended for autos is different than for photos. This Cream Mandarin auto is a particular light hog in my experience. Others have not tolerated this much light. I just don't want foxtails etc.

This is for autos

This is for photos

Thanks for sharing this Carmen!

 

[Carmen Ray]

Thanks for sharing this Carmen!

You're welcome Rob.

 

[StoneOtter]

the Sour Diesel has seeds. There are 5 plants in the flower room. None of the other 3 have seeds - 2 of them are autos & supposedly finishing up. That leaves just the Green Crack for me to worry about. If it’s a pollination thing, why isn’t the Green Crack seeding? If it’s a hermaphrodite, why no nanners or balls? I’m pretty confused. I’ve noticed one of the girls foxtailing @ I’m seeing the beginnings of calyx towers. I don’t really want to Chuck the plants & at this point, there’s no more damage to be done anyway. There’s gotta be something about the environment - this is the third time it’s happened. I might have to shut down & start over…

Hi Rob. So 3 clean and 2 with seed. This is the 3rd time it happened. I'm leaning to your thought of environment. They in a tent yes? What other equipment is in there with a light on it when it runs or when it's off you mat have missed? Are the seeded plants always in the same floor position?

 

[Thirvnrob]

Hi Rob. So 3 clean and 2 with seed. This is the 3rd time it happened. I'm leaning to your thought of environment. They in a tent yes? What other equipment is in there with a light on it when it runs or when it's off you mat have missed? Are the seeded plants always in the same floor position?

The last two times it happened, all of them seeded, although not all of them to the same extent. They are in a 10’x12’ open room & they’ve seeded from different spots in the room. I only use my tents for vegging & they’re in an adjacent room. think you’re axing about light leaks & before I started flowering made sure they were resolved. That said, I’ll probably sit out there at lights out tonight & look again. I’m so convinced I eliminated them, I hadn’t even considered it, so thanks for the nudge…

 

[Gee64]

I'm not sure Gee, the DLI recommended for autos is different than for photos. This Cream Mandarin auto is a particular light hog in my experience. Others have not tolerated this much light. I just don't want foxtails etc.

This is for autos

This is for photos

So by there math the auto gets 15% more light over the same period. 1000PPFD for a photo + 15% = 1150PPFD for an auto. Gee logic for the win!

 

[Azimuth]

Recycling soil is somewhat of a closed loop except you remove some for consumption.

Lets say you remove 2 ounces of flower per plant for example, then wouldn't replacing that with 2 ounces of dried garden flowers sort of balance it back?

Now garden flowers won't be as dense as flowers from a hyper accumulator like cannabis, so triple it. 2 oz out, 6 oz back in, and recycle the rest of the weed plant.

That makes sense. And, since the old soil is only 1/3rd of the new round, going 1:1 would actually get a 3:1 coverage. A place to start at least.

Don't forget the roots either, they are a heavy carbon source and very dense on innoculants.

Yeah, I get the very fine feeder roots for the most part and I rip them up and add them to the next round. I'm switching back to multiple up pots so my root structure may change but I try to get them all back in the loop.

 

[Carmen Ray]

So by there math the auto gets 15% more light over the same period. 1000PPFD for a photo + 15% = 1150PPFD for an auto. Gee logic for the win!

That is the case but if I have the light on at 1100 for 20 hours, that works out to be a DLI of 79.20. The recommended DLI for my plant according to the chart is 45 or 55 with CO2. How do I make sense of this?

 

[Gee64]

That is the case but if I have the light on at 1100 for 20 hours, that works out to be a DLI of 79.20. The recommended DLI for my plant according to the chart is 45 or 55 with CO2. How do I make sense of this?

I'm not sure how that would work. I guess you have to decide whether you want to follow DLI or PPFD.

Myself I wouldn't trust DLI as much as PPFD. DLI implies that every cannabis plant wants the exact same amount of light as all the other cannabis plants.

Myself I think that once stretch is over that you should give a plant the maximum amount of light it can safely handle.

If you have unlimited veg space then you should max it to it's highest safe PPFD every day of it's life. Good luck trying to feed that though.

And by safely I mean that it still has healthy leaves when senescence sets in, not sunburned leathery ones.

I only really grow photoperiod sativas so I can't speak for Indicas or autos but what I have found is that at 1000 PPFD and higher a leaf only lasts about 8 weeks, but at 950PPFD a leaf lasts forever. So because it can handle 1100 today it doesn't mean those leaves will be working well later on.

It certainly does appear that autos can handle a higher PPFD than photos tho.

Only 1 way to find out.

 

[Jon]

Hi @Thirvnrob and @StoneOtter
How are yous measuring the ppfd, I have an app that you can use paper over the camera as a diffuser, it don’t seem to be giving me a very accurate measurement, any advice ?

Unsolicited I do. The Phototone app, yes? If you have an iPhone, the paper diffuser works great. But - it has to be standard printer type white and unlined paper, and it has to be taped in place (or however) so it’s nice and tight around the phone. I’ve used it for years, often recommended it, and believe it’s as good or better than any light measuring app. If you already do all that and it’s still not accurate I don’t know what to tell you, sorry. FWIW.

 

[Gee64]

The last two times it happened, all of them seeded, although not all of them to the same extent. They are in a 10’x12’ open room & they’ve seeded from different spots in the room. I only use my tents for vegging & they’re in an adjacent room. think you’re axing about light leaks & before I started flowering made sure they were resolved. That said, I’ll probably sit out there at lights out tonight & look again. I’m so convinced I eliminated them, I hadn’t even considered it, so thanks for the nudge…

I found a rogue light in my flower tent purely by fluke. I have a remote sensor for my weather station hanging in the tent. Every couple minutes it pings home and when it does a light flashes. The light itself is extremely penetrating. It goes thru numerous layers of duct tape. I had to go with a few layers of black electrical tape to tame it. Maybe you have something similar going on.

 

[Thirvnrob]

I found a rogue light in my flower tent purely by fluke. I have a remote sensor for my weather station hanging in the tent. Every couple minutes it pings home and when it does a light flashes. The light itself is extremely penetrating. It goes thru numerous layers of duct tape. I had to go with a few layers of black electrical tape to tame it. Maybe you have something similar going on.

I sat in the flower room after lights out last night & didn’t find anything. I have a pedestal fan that has a red operating light. I don’t think that light can be detected by the plants, but I’ll tape it up just in case. For now, it’ll remain a mystery.

 

[013]

Hey Rob,

I was running a green light as nite light in my flower room, it was mounted overhead. Anywho I flipped my Wedding Cake clones to flower. I’m all over the place logistically with seasonal travel, not the sharpest knife in the drawer but 4 weeks later I realized there was a problem, no pistils no sign of flower after 4 weeks of flip… turned off the green LED light and about a week later… presto magico she finally started to pop first pistils

I thought the green led bulb was safe but apparently this one wasn’t…