The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It

[Gee64]

Azi you should switch to prilled or you are going to build up too much slow release dolomite in your soil.

 

[Gee64]

OK everyone, please read this post thouroughly, I have been waiting for this to demo to you all. I was hoping to use @Carmen Ray as a guinea pig last grow but the pots would have been too heavy for her so it had to wait until now.

If you build a soil from scratch, or with most commercial supersoils, on the soil's 1st run you are almost guaranteed to see a magnesium deficiency. You all know how common it is on journals around here growing LOS. So this is how you fix it.

Here's the girls today. Doing quite well with 3 very different pheno's of LC-18, and Miss Sticky in the front right.

From the other side.

And all different heights too.

So magnesium.... if you look from bottom leaves to top you can see it getting lesser.

It's not actually a mag def, it's mag lockout, and it's because calcium hasn't really begun to function properly.

The only thing I did was a full gentle root drench. I set them in a tote with enough RO water in it to come a bit over 3/4 the way up the pots, and let them soak for 15 minutes, then gently and slowly lifted them up until they were out and let them drip dry.

Then returned them to the tent. Thats it. Problem solved. If I had started chasing an answer my soil would now be out of balance and I would be chasing my tail until harvest.

Lower leaves on another.

Next node up.

And then another node up. You can see it disappearing.

Here's a 3 node shot of the next one.

and the 4th node. This one is stubborn, it may require 1 more dunk, but it's improving. We shall see.

So there it is, how I fix a mag def in 1st run LOS. It's a dolomite thing. Dolomite is Ca and Mg, and it needs to be activated with a flood.

Please ignore the missing leaves, the invisible thrips stole them. Lil bastards!

 

[Azimuth]

Azi you should switch to prilled or you are going to build up too much slow release dolomite in your soil.

And what, waste 4 oz of what is probably a lifetime supply of the powder?

But I guess when I put it that way it probably makes sense.

I can keep the rest of the other for the veggies.

 

[Kaldean]

Hi @Gee64 , and everyone here. And to @013 for steering me to here
I don’t know if I’m posting in the right place so my apologies if I’m not,
And thank you everyone who takes time to help
So let me get yous up to where I am now and the problems I’m having,
It done a few grows in the past, but this is my first time with the living soil, as will become obvious as we go lol
Iv done 4 main plants in 12L fabric pots.
I did take ten cuttings and was intending to give them to a friend for their garden, hence why their in small pots, with the same living soil , I would say maybe 1.5-2L plastic things
Anyway, the person I did the cuttings for couldn’t take them, and I didn’t wanna throw them away, so I decided to keep them, and I waited till they was about 6 inch’s talk and flipped them, just over a week into the flip I cut all the branches off to do the SOG method I think it’s called.
I started noticing deficiencies pretty early on, and didn’t think it would get as bad as what it has,
When it started getting out of control, I posted on here for advice,
My thoughts being to forget the living soil and feed nutes from the bottle, a couple of people on my post advised me to do just that, but for some reason I didn’t,
iv been watering with tap water that’s been left out for 3-4 days before use, and iv been using freshly squeezed lemon juice to get the ph to about 6.2-6.5
Iv also been adding blackstrap molasses every other watering this is only been fine from the flip stage thou, and iv not given any to my smaller plants since I was advised I’m giving it too often,
So here’s where I am.
The clones are 60 days in from the flip. And tbh, iv pretty much given up on em, I will see where we go and what’s advised and take it from there,
But my main plants, I really wanna try avoid what’s gone on with the clones, and iv now learnt that the pots I’m using are way to small, so if I have to go with bottled nutes to avoid a catastrophe, so be it
Ole and before I forget, iv used ecothrive charge on my main ones twice, and iv used the ecothrive tea once, there are some slight signs of deficiencies, and iv learnt from @013 that I have a crust layer in my soil, so yeah definitely things going on, and thank yous for tot help once again, and sorry iv gone on a bit here lol
I will put pics up of what my small ones first looked like when I reached out for help, and what they look like now, so brace yourselfs cos it’s gunna hurt
And I’m also putting pics of my main ones ,
how they was, and how they are now, and some
And what’s looking like deficiencies

 

[Kaldean]

Hi @Gee64 , and everyone here. And to @013 for steering me to here
I don’t know if I’m posting in the right place so my apologies if I’m not,
And thank you everyone who takes time to help
So let me get yous up to where I am now and the problems I’m having,
It done a few grows in the past, but this is my first time with the living soil, as will become obvious as we go lol
Iv done 4 main plants in 12L fabric pots.
I did take ten cuttings and was intending to give them to a friend for their garden, hence why their in small pots, with the same living soil , I would say maybe 1.5-2L plastic things
Anyway, the person I did the cuttings for couldn’t take them, and I didn’t wanna throw them away, so I decided to keep them, and I waited till they was about 6 inch’s talk and flipped them, just over a week into the flip I cut all the branches off to do the SOG method I think it’s called.
I started noticing deficiencies pretty early on, and didn’t think it would get as bad as what it has,
When it started getting out of control, I posted on here for advice,
My thoughts being to forget the living soil and feed nutes from the bottle, a couple of people on my post advised me to do just that, but for some reason I didn’t,
iv been watering with tap water that’s been left out for 3-4 days before use, and iv been using freshly squeezed lemon juice to get the ph to about 6.2-6.5
Iv also been adding blackstrap molasses every other watering this is only been fine from the flip stage thou, and iv not given any to my smaller plants since I was advised I’m giving it too often,
So here’s where I am.
The clones are 60 days in from the flip. And tbh, iv pretty much given up on em, I will see where we go and what’s advised and take it from there,
But my main plants, I really wanna try avoid what’s gone on with the clones, and iv now learnt that the pots I’m using are way to small, so if I have to go with bottled nutes to avoid a catastrophe, so be it
Ole and before I forget, iv used ecothrive charge on my main ones twice, and iv used the ecothrive tea once, there are some slight signs of deficiencies, and iv learnt from @013 that I have a crust layer in my soil, so yeah definitely things going on, and thank yous for tot help once again, and sorry iv gone on a bit here lol
I will put pics up of what my small ones first looked like when I reached out for help, and what they look like now, so brace yourselfs cos it’s gunna hurt
And I’m also putting pics of my main ones ,
how they was, and how they are now, and some
And what’s looking like deficiencies

Here’s my main ones

 

[budnoob3]

Here’s my main ones

Nothing to worry about yet! Slight tip burn means just slightly reduce feeding at most.

 

[Kaldean]

Nothing to worry about yet! Slight tip burn means just slightly reduce feeding at most.

Hi @budnoob3 , maybe that’s cause I did the second top dressing of the ecothrive charge a bit earlier than I was meant to, cause of what happened to the clones.
And how about the slight yellowing on the leaves, is that a potential problem ?
And thank you for the reply

 

[budnoob3]

Slight yellowing is same deal, but way better than burn. So when you get to flower mode you should expect yellowing leaves to start. If it’s before flower your N is to low. For OTC nutes that means to feed a little more veg bites which are higher in N. For me it means to add a little more compost from the pile with higher N which is one with higher amount of leaves,branches etc. when I’m in flower I use balanced pile higher in P and K and bonemeal which for OtC folks translates to bloom nutes. For me, keeping inputs in balance helps me ensure Ca and Mg is always in balance no matter what pile I pick from throughout. Then there’s my worms and EWC (essentially worm poop) that I let live everywhere which is never a bad thing imo. Hell, they’d be sleeping under my pillow if they smelled better

 

[Azimuth]

Welcome @Kaldean to Gee's Rabbit Hole of Organics. I think that's the working title but someone will have to check.

I decided to keep them, and I waited till they was about 6 inch’s talk and flipped them, just over a week into the flip I cut all the branches off to do the SOG method I think it’s called.

Next time you'll want to try to get all your trimming and training done before you flip. Once you do flip the plant hormones change and any major damage will just add stress. You can ask here next time and we'll walk you through it.

The clones are 60 days in from the flip. And tbh, iv pretty much given up on em, I will see where we go and what’s advised and take it from there,

Most hybrid strains finish flowering between 50 and 70 days, but I start counting those after about 14 days of stretch. But however you count them you're in the final few weeks and your plants' leaves will naturally begin to fade as they draw nutrients from their leaves so some of what you're seeing could be related to that.

and iv been using freshly squeezed lemon juice to get the ph to about 6.2-6.5

With an organic soil you shouldn't have to worry about pH at all, but leave that to the microbes, that is unless your tap water is way out of whack.

Iv also been adding blackstrap molasses every other watering this is only been fine from the flip stage thou, and iv not given any to my smaller plants since I was advised I’m giving it too often,

That's probably too much, but now that your started you should probably continue with it for this round.

and iv learnt from @013 that I have a crust layer in my soil,

A periodic top dressing of worm castings watered in can help break up the crustiness.

 

[Kaldean]

Slight yellowing is same deal, but way better than burn. So when you get to flower mode you should expect yellowing leaves to start. If it’s before flower your N is to low. For OTC nutes that means to feed a little more veg bites which are higher in N. For me it means to add a little more compost from the pile with higher N which is one with higher amount of leaves,branches etc. when I’m in flower I use balanced pile higher in P and K and bonemeal which for OtC folks translates to bloom nutes. For me, keeping inputs in balance helps me ensure Ca and Mg is always in balance no matter what pile I pick from throughout. Then there’s my worms and EWC (essentially worm poop) that I let live everywhere which is never a bad thing imo. Hell, they’d be sleeping under my pillow if they smelled better

These EWC’s keep coming up lol, so I’m taking it there pretty much a must have,
Iv found a couple and will put pics up cos I’m pretty much clueless mate tbh, help me choose if that’s ok.
And right, I’m with ya on the yellowing thing, this is where im probably messing up with previous grows.
I see yellow and automatically think N, and then I think, lack of nutes and start feeding more, I panic when I see it,
So I’m gunna try hold out and get advice before i start over feeding in future , thanks mate for your reply, here’s the EWC’s I found

 

[Azimuth]

Any of those will probably be fine until we get you making your own.

You'd almost have to know what the worms were fed to be able to tell the difference, but most commercial castings are pretty similar in feed from what I understand.

 

[Kaldean]

Welcome @Kaldean to Gee's Rabbit Hole of Organics. I think that's the working title but someone will have to check.


Next time you'll want to try to get all your trimming and training done before you flip. Once you do flip the plant hormones change and any major damage will just add stress. You can ask here next time and we'll walk you through it.


Most hybrid strains finish flowering between 50 and 70 days, but I start counting those after about 14 days of stretch. But however you count them you're in the final few weeks and your plants' leaves will naturally begin to fade as they draw nutrients from their leaves so some of what you're seeing could be related to that.


With an organic soil you shouldn't have to worry about pH at all, but leave that to the microbes, that is unless your tap water is way out of whack.


That's probably too much, but now that your started you should probably continue with it for this round.


A periodic top dressing of worm castings watered in can help break up the crustiness.

Thank you @Azimuth
I do usually train and trim before the flip,
I did do with my main ones aswell, once I get my 8 colas with the mainlining, I tidy them up and give them a good few days to recover and then flip.
But with the clones, iv never done the SOG thing and lollipop thing, I went to a site called 10buds and it said to do it after they start stretching, so I followed that ( Doh! lol )
And my tap water ph is pretty high, around the high 7’s - low 8’s, so yeah I get it down to low to mid 6,
And yeah I will do as you say with the molasses, every 2-3 feeds do you think ?
And thank you for the advice mate

 

[Carmen Ray]

OK everyone, please read this post thouroughly, I have been waiting for this to demo to you all. I was hoping to use @Carmen Ray as a guinea pig last grow but the pots would have been too heavy for her so it had to wait until now.

If you build a soil from scratch, or with most commercial supersoils, on the soil's 1st run you are almost guaranteed to see a magnesium deficiency. You all know how common it is on journals around here growing LOS. So this is how you fix it.

Here's the girls today. Doing quite well with 3 very different pheno's of LC-18, and Miss Sticky in the front right.

From the other side.

And all different heights too.

So magnesium.... if you look from bottom leaves to top you can see it getting lesser.

It's not actually a mag def, it's mag lockout, and it's because calcium hasn't really begun to function properly.

The only thing I did was a full gentle root drench. I set them in a tote with enough RO water in it to come a bit over 3/4 the way up the pots, and let them soak for 15 minutes, then gently and slowly lifted them up until they were out and let them drip dry.

Then returned them to the tent. Thats it. Problem solved. If I had started chasing an answer my soil would now be out of balance and I would be chasing my tail until harvest.

Lower leaves on another.

Next node up.

And then another node up. You can see it disappearing.

Here's a 3 node shot of the next one.

and the 4th node. This one is stubborn, it may require 1 more dunk, but it's improving. We shall see.

So there it is, how I fix a mag def in 1st run LOS. It's a dolomite thing. Dolomite is Ca and Mg, and it needs to be activated with a flood.

Please ignore the missing leaves, the invisible thrips stole them. Lil bastards!

Thanks for the demo Gee man. I see the merit in this practice but physically can't pull this off as you say. I don't have the physical strength. Is there another way to do similar without the heavy lifting?

 

[Kaldean]

Any of those will probably be fine until we get you making your own.

You'd almost have to know what the worms were fed to be able to tell the difference, but most commercial castings are pretty similar in feed from what I understand.

Lol, thank you mate, I told ya I’m clueless
I’m thinking there’s gotta be a difference , but surely an earth worm is an earth worm no matter how hard try convince myself there’s a difference
Thanks mate

 

[Azimuth]

Lol, thank you mate, I told ya I’m clueless
I’m thinking there’s gotta be a difference , but surely an earth worm is an earth worm no matter how hard try convince myself there’s a difference
Thanks mate

Well, worms are not even similar worms actually. There are 3-4 different types typically used with Red Wigglers being the most common.

But it's more important what they've been fed since they process the inputs before they cover them in a calcium carbonate slime. It's this calcium component that will loosen the crustiness of your top soil layer, but the nutrients contained in them are what the plants need. But if the worms were fed say just cardboard, there won't be much in the way of nutrients.

 

[budnoob3]

Welcome @Kaldean to Gee's Rabbit Hole of Organics. I think that's the working title but someone will have to check.


Next time you'll want to try to get all your trimming and training done before you flip. Once you do flip the plant hormones change and any major damage will just add stress. You can ask here next time and we'll walk you through it.


Most hybrid strains finish flowering between 50 and 70 days, but I start counting those after about 14 days of stretch. But however you count them you're in the final few weeks and your plants' leaves will naturally begin to fade as they draw nutrients from their leaves so some of what you're seeing could be related to that.


With an organic soil you shouldn't have to worry about pH at all, but leave that to the microbes, that is unless your tap water is way out of whack.


That's probably too much, but now that your started you should probably continue with it for this round.


A periodic top dressing of worm castings watered in can help break up the crustiness.

Stop talking about days of flower to harvest please, that goes for all of you! Unless you have environmental issues that cause PM, bud rot or any of those ugly factors just focus on trichomes. For you new folks, if your baby isn’t on verge of death and conditions allow be patient. Grab a jewelers loupe off amazon and don’t chop that byotch until at least mostly milky trichomes. As I recall lady canna loves mostly milky very little amber, gee and azi are happy with whatever they get and I love 30% amber and closer to 50^ amber for indiceas. All that being said as lazy and knowledgeable as gee, azi, bill and I may be it’s really up to you what you prefer. I’ll try to convince you to be patient and not chop till I do but better yet keep that byotch alive and take samples here and there to learn what’s best for you!!! Need more info or have questions? We are here even to be jerks about it. That’s half the fun

 

[budnoob3]

Any of those will probably be fine until we get you making your own.

You'd almost have to know what the worms were fed to be able to tell the difference, but most commercial castings are pretty similar in feed from what I understand.

Seriously, anything goes and will work, temporarily at least, stick around and you’ll learn how to do it all yourself which helps us all

 

[budnoob3]

These EWC’s keep coming up lol, so I’m taking it there pretty much a must have,
Iv found a couple and will put pics up cos I’m pretty much clueless mate tbh, help me choose if that’s ok.
And right, I’m with ya on the yellowing thing, this is where im probably messing up with previous grows.
I see yellow and automatically think N, and then I think, lack of nutes and start feeding more, I panic when I see it,
So I’m gunna try hold out and get advice before i start over feeding in future , thanks mate for your reply, here’s the EWC’s I found

It’s like black gold or Texas tea as Jed clampett would say, and don’t we all still dream of Ellie may! Come on girls. Same goes for you too!

 

[Gee64]

Hi @Gee64 , and everyone here. And to @013 for steering me to here
I don’t know if I’m posting in the right place so my apologies if I’m not,
And thank you everyone who takes time to help
So let me get yous up to where I am now and the problems I’m having,
It done a few grows in the past, but this is my first time with the living soil, as will become obvious as we go lol
Iv done 4 main plants in 12L fabric pots.
I did take ten cuttings and was intending to give them to a friend for their garden, hence why their in small pots, with the same living soil , I would say maybe 1.5-2L plastic things
Anyway, the person I did the cuttings for couldn’t take them, and I didn’t wanna throw them away, so I decided to keep them, and I waited till they was about 6 inch’s talk and flipped them, just over a week into the flip I cut all the branches off to do the SOG method I think it’s called.
I started noticing deficiencies pretty early on, and didn’t think it would get as bad as what it has,
When it started getting out of control, I posted on here for advice,
My thoughts being to forget the living soil and feed nutes from the bottle, a couple of people on my post advised me to do just that, but for some reason I didn’t,
iv been watering with tap water that’s been left out for 3-4 days before use, and iv been using freshly squeezed lemon juice to get the ph to about 6.2-6.5
Iv also been adding blackstrap molasses every other watering this is only been fine from the flip stage thou, and iv not given any to my smaller plants since I was advised I’m giving it too often,
So here’s where I am.
The clones are 60 days in from the flip. And tbh, iv pretty much given up on em, I will see where we go and what’s advised and take it from there,
But my main plants, I really wanna try avoid what’s gone on with the clones, and iv now learnt that the pots I’m using are way to small, so if I have to go with bottled nutes to avoid a catastrophe, so be it
Ole and before I forget, iv used ecothrive charge on my main ones twice, and iv used the ecothrive tea once, there are some slight signs of deficiencies, and iv learnt from @013 that I have a crust layer in my soil, so yeah definitely things going on, and thank yous for tot help once again, and sorry iv gone on a bit here lol
I will put pics up of what my small ones first looked like when I reached out for help, and what they look like now, so brace yourselfs cos it’s gunna hurt
And I’m also putting pics of my main ones ,
how they was, and how they are now, and some
And what’s looking like deficiencies

Hey Kal, glad you made it

These ones look very hungry, and a bit confused. Have you added any synthetic fertilizers?

If the surface of the pots are crusty when dry, then you are running low on available calcium, and calcium should always be corrected 1st, as everything works better when calcium is correct. So if you have any Calmag then you should mix some up as per the instructions for Light Feeding, and give it to them 2 waterings in a row. If the younger ones are crusty then the same for them. That will open your soil up and the nitrogen deficiency should ease off somewhat.

Then I would immediately hit them with a drink of dechlorinated water with some hydrolysed fish fertilizer mixed in as per the mixing instructions. Hydrolysed, not fish emulsion or hydrolysed fish emulsion. Hydrolysed with no reference to emulsion. I would give the younger ones some too. At least once a week.

Any of those EWC's will work but get at least one dose calmag in 1st, then top dress a half inch layer of EWC across the top of each pot. Then at each watering or calmag or fish watering you will be rinsing the EWC into the roots too.

If you start this immediately you can easily save the younger ones, and certainly salvage a somewhat good harvest from the older ones.

If you have access to any organic flower fertilizers with numbers around 2-8-4, or slightly less, a top dressing of 4 tablespoons per 12 liter pot (less for smaller pots, but 1 tbsp per 3 litres soil per week) layed on and worked in with your finger tips evenly across the pots right before the EWC topdressing, and then watered in, every week on the same day will do wonders, and in about 4 or 5 days you should see improvement start, and in a couple weeks they should look much better.

Also, if you have any myco then after you get the calmag in, add a level teaspoon of myco to each pot and gently water it in with just water before applying the topdressings. It doesn't look like your myco has died, but adding more will help and it is insurance and can't hurt.

So to summarize:

Get some Organic Calmag and mix it for light feeding and give every plant a full watering with it.

As soon as the pots dry down do it again.
2 light feedings are way way better than 1 heavy feeding.

The next day topdress one tsp myco and gently water it in with only about 25% of a normal waterings amount of water. Just rinse it in a bit.

Then let them dry down, top dress with some organic certified 2-8-4 or something close to that, some EWC on top of that, and water it in with a full watering of fish water.

Then start a regiment of one calmag watering a week-ish, one fish watering a week-ish, and at least one straight watering a week-ish, and topdress with the 2-8-4 and EWC every week. Try for the same day every week.

This is the high maintenance caused by small pots. It's a pain.

Watch carefully and get your fingers in the dirt. Every time they dry, break up the crusting really well. After a couple doses of Calmag the crusting should stop and then you can give them a light feeding every 10 days or so to maintain calcium.

There are other ways but you need to act fast to turn them around fast. Get them on the right track and hang out in here at least until you get things straightened out. Keep us updated, good or bad, and use pictures. Lets see if we can get you to a better place.

Once they are safe you can explore other suggestions, and we can explain deeper what/how things work.

Mostly it's too small of pots that have run out of food, organic matter, and calcium.
Possibly soil carbon too but calcium, food, organic matter, and myco 1st.

And Welcome to the nerdiest room on 420

PS. It looks like you had them growing really well until the pots ran dry on nutrients. If those were 10 gallon pots or larger you would have made harvest no problem.

 

[budnoob3]

Stop talking about days of flower to harvest please, that goes for all of you! Unless you have environmental issues that cause PM, bud rot or any of those ugly factors just focus on trichomes. For you new folks, if your baby isn’t on verge of death and conditions allow be patient. Grab a jewelers loupe off amazon and don’t chop that byotch until at least mostly milky trichomes. As I recall lady canna loves mostly milky very little amber, gee and azi are happy with whatever they get and I love 30% amber and closer to 50^ amber for indiceas. All that being said as lazy and knowledgeable as gee, azi, bill and I may be it’s really up to you what you prefer. I’ll try to convince you to be patient and not chop till I do but better yet keep that byotch alive and take samples here and there to learn what’s best for you!!! Need more info or have questions? We are here even to be jerks about it. That’s half the fun

Am I wrong bro! Cut that shot out