The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It

[Gee64]

Can you elaborate on adding minerals to tea? Which minerals? Are we talking about minerals above and beyond the sources already in the compost or worm bins?

Rock dusts, bone meal, anything that is high in P and hasn't yet been run thru a microbe so you can train the microbes to eat minerals before they reach the soil. Then once in the soil the plant will squirt exudates onto minerals for microbes to eat, and the ones from the tea will already know how to do it.

 

[Carmen Ray]

Gee man, when you have a moment, please will you look at my MAC #1 leaves, including sugar leaves in the main cola, which show signs of a problem. I've posted pics in my journal. I know you'd get there on your own anyway, but I feel a sense of urgency, watching leaf burn creeping into colas

 

[Gee64]

Gee man, when you have a moment, please will you look at my MAC #1 leaves, including sugar leaves in the main cola, which show signs of a problem. I've posted pics in my journal. I know you'd get there on your own anyway, but I feel a sense of urgency, watching leaf burn creeping into colas

I was actually just looking at it. It looks like a multitude of things, cal and K and yellowing.

That is usually, when in combination, a sign of overwatering or underwatering or bad PH. Either something is wrong in your cation exchange, which is where PH comes into play, or oxygen is being compromised would be my guess.

Over calcification can do it too as too much calcium can lock other cations out, but the leaves show a cal def as well as a K def, so likely not over calcification.

What does your water stick show for moisture?

What is your PPFD, as too much light can overdrive the plant and mimic starvation?

What is your soil temp, as anything below 69F can cause microbes to get sluggish and cause starvation?

Have you added any synthetics?

 

[Carmen Ray]

I was actually just looking at it. It looks like a multitude of things, cal and K and yellowing.

Thanks Gee.

That is usually, when in combination, a sign of overwatering or underwatering or bad PH. Either something is wrong in your cation exchange, which is where PH comes into play, or oxygen is being compromised would be my guess.

Over calcification can do it too as too much calcium can lock other cations out, but the leaves show a cal def as well as a K def, so likely not over calcification.

What does your water stick show for moisture?

The plant was given 1 L of water yesterday. There really is no overwatering issue in my view.

What is your PPFD, as too much light can overdrive the plant and mimic starvation?

PPFD is 741 at its highest point and closer to 550 on the lower colas.

What is your soil temp, as anything below 69F can cause microbes to get sluggish and cause starvation?

Soil temps have been fluctuating wildly. They were down to about 15 C a couple of days ago and that must have been several hours. Today the soil is 20 C.

Have you added any synthetics?

No.

So the only thing on the list that is a problem is the metabolism of the soil right? What can I do to help the plant? Shall I feed calmag at next feed, and possibly some microbes? Yesterday they got myco. I've been alternating kelp water and fish water, with myco once a week and Nourish once every 2 weeks. I do have molasses if that can help.

I can't heat the soil because the reptile heating mat that I have says that it shouldn't get wet. I tried having the mat against the side of the bag but it doesn't distribute the heat evenly that way as only a small part of the mat touches the bag, wasting most of the heat. I know I need to get some decent heating mats for next winter. It's just too costly for me at present.

 

[Gee64]

Thanks Gee.

The plant was given 1 L of water yesterday. There really is no overwatering issue in my view.

PPFD is 741 at its highest point and closer to 550 on the lower colas.

Soil temps have been fluctuating wildly. They were down to about 15 C a couple of days ago and that must have been several hours. Today the soil is 20 C.

No.

So the only thing on the list that is a problem is the metabolism of the soil right? What can I do to help the plant? Shall I feed calmag at next feed, and possibly some microbes? Yesterday they got myco. I've been alternating kelp water and fish water, with myco once a week and Nourish once every 2 weeks. I do have molasses if that can help.

I can't heat the soil because the reptile heating mat that I have says that it shouldn't get wet. I tried having the mat against the side of the bag but it doesn't distribute the heat evenly that way as only a small part of the mat touches the bag, wasting most of the heat. I know I need to get some decent heating mats for next winter. It's just too costly for me at present.

I can't see it being a PH thing because I know your rebuild and it looked fine. I would lean towards low temps. Can you warm your water to about 24-25C before using? warm it in a pot, just be careful to not go over 26 and stir it good before checking the temp. Also, is your water chlorine free?

 

[Gee64]

Actually, everybody listen up for a second please. Sometimes I forget to mention basic basics that I have taken forcgranted for far too long.

If you are using tap water and it has chlorine in it you will experience nothing but grief. Chlorines purpose is to kill microbes. You will get slow steady starvation.

Chlorine is a gas so letting water sit for 24 hours before using will vent this gas off.

If you want to see what I mean then take a tall glass, fill it half full of tap water, set it in a spot that doesn't have ventilation, like a corner of the counter or a window sill, then tomorrow smell into the glass.

The chlorine will vent off but get trapped in the glass and you will smell the public pool.

If you drink tap water it's killing your gut biome too, so let your drinking water vent for a day before drinking.

House plants too.

If you are using unvented chlorinated water then venting it will show huge perks quickly.

 

[Carmen Ray]

I can't see it being a PH thing because I know your rebuild and it looked fine. I would lean towards low temps. Can you warm your water to about 24-25C before using? warm it in a pot, just be careful to not go over 26 and stir it good before checking the temp. Also, is your water chlorine free?

I can warm the water. I do use tap water but I leave it for two days for the chorine to vent off.

 

[Gee64]

I can warm the water. I do use tap water but I leave it for two days for the chorine to vent off.

It is also possible that you have both a potassium and calcium deficiency. Too bad you don't have a refractometer to check calcium with.

 

[Carmen Ray]

It is slso posdible that you have both a potassium and calcium deficiency. Too bad you don't have a refractometer to check calcium with.

Thanks Gee, I'll try calmag then and hope for the best

 

[Gee64]

Thanks Gee, I'll try calmag then and hope for the best

No harm in warming the water a bit too just in case.

 

[Azimuth]

In this manner you only want to add enough to get the microbes thru the brewing process. Once into the soil you want them to get carbon from exudates, not molasses.

What would be a good ratio of molasses to say a cup of castings to have it all used up over the 24 hours?

If you are already high brix then you are sequesterring carbon.

What's the threshold that begins high brix and the sequesterring of carbon? I know at least 12 to get beyond a bug issue, and I'm sure the higher the better, but what kind of level kicks things off to be self perpetuating and spiraling?

Hopefully that answers your question. If not, please say so, this is an important aspect of high brix to get your head around. We are priming the pump here but you don't want to prime it forever, you want it to become self sustaining

I think I'm getting it but then every once in a while you throw out a comment like "you don't want carbon from the soil but rather the air" and I'm back to questioning my understanding.

Earlier today I was thinking that I've got plenty of microbes from my castings and compost both as part of my mix as well as a mulch layer and regular topdressing and now tea, air for the microbes seems good based on the stick, I should have plenty of carbon in the soil from old soil with roots, compost, castings, aged leaf mold, and dry leaf crumble (although I'm now wondering if you only consider the old roots and dry leaf crumble to be the type of carbon that counts in this scenario?), calcium should finally be good in this round of soil, so that leaves phosphorus which I readily acknowledge is likely lacking.

And I understand the concept of getting global P into the mix via the bellies of soon to be deceased microbes so I'm looking forward to seeing if that helps. In addition to the target plant, I'm giving the same tea to the next round which is getting established on the Netpot SIP so hopefully that one will show continued progress in the journey to higher brix.

BTW, about 24 hours after my disappointing brix reading we got rain so hopefully that was a part of the low reading.

 

[Gee64]

Ok first off don't despair. You set out to create a soil from your own property that would successfully grow cannabis.

CANNABIS IS VERY HARD TO GROW.

Don't every lose sight of that. When you fully get organics you will instantly see that the best additive to a worm farm or a soil mix or a composter is weed. Thats because it is an apex hyper accumulator.

It can go from sprout to a 15 foot tree in 8 months and produce tons of extremely nutritionally dense seeds as well. It requires a massive amount of carbon, nitrogen, and minerals to do that.

You are only a few tweaks away from acheiving that.

Calcium is a bitch, you may have to spend a bit on that for awhile, but otherwise you are a bit of P away from acheiving it and really, now that you've corrected your O2, this is your 1st try at high brix and full health. I'm amazed, you should be too. To be 100% honest, the only reason you aren't high brix yet is because it took me 2 years to get you to lay off the water

What would be a good ratio of molasses to say a cup of castings to have it all used up over the 24 hours?

When I brew a microbe tea I use either 1 tbsp molasses or 2 per 16 litres of water and 1 heaped solo cup of my own EWC. I only use 1 or 2 microbe teas per lifetime unless something needs a rescue, so if the microbes in the pot seem sluggish, I use 2 tbsp molasses. If the plant is A-OK and it's 4 weeks old and myco is established really well, I only use 1 tbsp molasses. 1 will support that much EWC in the tea for 18 hours. More is a boost for the pot.

What's the threshold that begins high brix and the sequesterring of carbon? I know at least 12 to get beyond a bug issue, and I'm sure the higher the better, but what kind of level kicks things off to be self perpetuating and spiraling?

At 13 brix the plant can now pull more CO2 out of the air to make more sugar than is required to support itself with enough energy and to support all the microbes in the pot with carbon, and still have a bit left over. That extra bit gets stored in the soil. Sequestered. As brix in the plant climb higher sequestration goes up too. The plant keeps getting better.

I think I'm getting it but then every once in a while you throw out a comment like "you don't want carbon from the soil but rather the air" and I'm back to questioning my understanding.

Carbon from the soil gets eaten and humate, the lattice-like skeleton of carbon gets left behind. It holds a charge and cations attract to it and it is the big player to run your CEC, which moves minerals.

When enough carbon gets eaten to grow the CEC to be able to supply enough minerals to allow photosynthesis to occur at a high enough rate to make enough sugars to start sequestration, all you need is enough calcium and phosphorus to allow for that elevated rate of photosynthesis to occur.

So to summarize, microbes start out eating soil carbon and when the CEC gets high enough the plant can flip to high brix if Cal and P are abundant, and now the microbes don't need to eat soil carbon, they chase exudated sugar carbon that the plant and myco squirt onto whatever the plant wants the microbes to eat.

At this point you only want microbes to eat what they are told to eat, not eat any soil carbon they wish.

Microbes like sugar so once you are high brix this isn't a problem. Now the plant controls it's destiny as long as you keep ahead of what the plant will need to squirt future exudates on.

Earlier today I was thinking that I've got plenty of microbes from my castings and compost both as part of my mix as well as a mulch layer and regular topdressing and now tea, air for the microbes seems good based on the stick, I should have plenty of carbon in the soil from old soil with roots, compost, castings, aged leaf mold, and dry leaf crumble (although I'm now wondering if you only consider the old roots and dry leaf crumble to be the type of carbon that counts in this scenario?),

They get turned into humates. Thats your CEC.

calcium should finally be good in this round of soil, so that leaves phosphorus which I readily acknowledge is likely lacking.

Yup, yup, and more yup. Your close dude. Amazingly close considering the difficult task you took on.

Next rebuild for sure if you get a fair bit more P in, and the rebuild after that should likely get to high brix within 4 weeks of planting because your floor will be above 12 in your mix.

And I understand the concept of getting global P into the mix via the bellies of soon to be deceased microbes so I'm looking forward to seeing if that helps.

P is tough to catch up on, because to work properly it needs to snowball. You don't have enough time to roll the snowball in this grow. Thats not to say you can't get over 12 this grow, but if you were eating more P at day 1 you would already be high brix. The rest of your mix is solid enough for it.

In addition to the target plant, I'm giving the same tea to the next round which is getting established on the Netpot SIP so hopefully that one will show continued progress in the journey to higher brix.

You can feed molasses every week if you want. Not saying that you are implying you would, just saying you could if you wanted to, and get good results, but never what I think you are working for because the you will never establish good humate and the plant never gets to control it's future.

BTW, about 24 hours after my disappointing brix reading we got rain so hopefully that was a part of the low reading.

I kinda figured. Your brix was too low. Add 2 points. A real storm, an ass-kicker with thunder and lightening can drop you 5.

So here is what I see as your best way up. Every homegrown ingredient you use should be coddled into high brix by you and then all your inputs go up in sugars and minerals, and your floor rises dramatically.

I just go buy them, thats cheating really from your perspective, but it's easy.

If you want it from your yard you need to do the work, but as your plants get healthier in your yard, so does your compost, and the snowballs start rolling.

Start with your refractometer and a bag of dolomite. Observe the brix, but correct the calcium. Always start with calcium.

Once it's corrected then revisit brix readings and assess what you need to do.

Once your yard is high brix your soil can't help but be.

 

[Gee64]

The Outdoor Gang

The 3 RVDV Clones

Their main tops.

Brix is 19 with a perfect calcium line.
Gotta love Rev's mix

 

[Gee64]

Day 7 in the KloneKing.

This one, the one in the back left corner, it has roots.

The strain survives.

 

[Gee64]

Day 10 and 4.

 

[Gee64]

RVDV - Day 69 of Flower.

Still pushing large amounts of new hairs. Keep stacking Baby

These flowers are amazing. They ain't your typical designer weed.

They have completely eaten every fan. It's bizarre but I can't stop it. She sucks them absolutely dry. She wants those minerals.

Tomorrow I will try to get a brix reading from them.

 

[Gee64]

Brix on the old RVDV's posted above is 13 and a fairly crisp calcium line so when I topdress today I will use dolo water to water it in.

Normally I wouldn't topdress at this stage but I have no idea how much longer they will go for, so I will keep the minerals and EWC coming.

High brix without any fans left is pretty incredible. They are still photosynthesizing adequately with the sugar leaves. Tough Gals

 

[StoneOtter]

Crazy!

 

[Azimuth]

Starting my next tea today. Since I'm creating microbes to break down different specific things, to a half gallon of rain water I added a teaspoon of molasses, and a tablespoon each of bone meal and my flower crumble for P, alfalfa for K, and my leaf crumble for C.

I'll bubble it for 24 hours and then add 2 oz of castings and bubble for another 24 hours before feeding to the plants.

 

[Gee64]

Starting my next tea today. Since I'm creating microbes to break down different specific things, to a half gallon of rain water I added a teaspoon of molasses, and a tablespoon each of bone meal and my flower crumble for P, alfalfa for K, and my leaf crumble for C.

I'll bubble it for 24 hours and then add 2 oz of castings and bubble for another 24 hours before feeding to the plants.

Sounds yummy, well ... you know... if I were a plant