The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It

[Gee64]

Nah Gee man, they are African. Errything African is built tough a.f. Just ask Matt Sativa! I will need proper proof that "programing" is a thing.

Weeds. African Weeds!

Well there is definitely that too. They are drought resistant for sure. Whatever it is, you gotta love it. Those plants are 8-ish months old now so they should flower pretty good. I should see the flip starting any day now. I'm so happy they survived.

How much longer do yours have approximately, until harvest?

 

[Azimuth]

Well, about 5 days after being given the tea the target plant brixed at 10 with a well defined calcium line. Pretty disappointing as I thought I'd get at least a little bump so if I did it sure didn't last long.

It was tested about an hour before lights out in the box with a barometer reading of 29.93 and sunny skies expected this morning but rain this afternoon. Not sure how far in advance the plant would send sugars down to the roots ahead of the rain but I would think it would want to take advantage of the nice clear and sunny skies in the flower box for at least a little but.

Maybe this soil just isn't capable of higher numbers. I think I may do a tea every ten days anyway just for the practice if nothing else.

 

[Gee64]

Well, about 5 days after being given the tea the target plant brixed at 10 with a well defined calcium line. Pretty disappointing as I thought I'd get at least a little bump so if I did it sure didn't last long.

It was tested about an hour before lights out in the box with a barometer reading of 29.93 and sunny skies expected this morning but rain this afternoon. Not sure how far in advance the plant would send sugars down to the roots ahead of the rain but I would think it would want to take advantage of the nice clear and sunny skies in the flower box for at least a little but.

Maybe this soil just isn't capable of higher numbers. I think I may do a tea every ten days anyway just for the practice if nothing else.

That does kinda suck, but at least you are finding things out.

I haven't tracked brix drops before pressure drops really closely, but generally I see brix start to drop about 48 hours before the storm hits, and then a big drop as the pressure takes that fast drop right before it hits, so if you are within 48 hours of a storm you will see lower results for sure, and as pressure rises afterwards, brix climb just as fast.

I have seen 20's and 21's drop as low as 15 or 16 numerous times. Smaller fronts, like light rain can drop you 2 points easily.

 

[Azimuth]

So, it's just an illusion and all is well.

I laugh to keep from crying. Lol.

 

[StoneOtter]

They were glad to see you! A little wilty but no problem! Those programmers

 

[Carmen Ray]

Well there is definitely that too. They are drought resistant for sure. Whatever it is, you gotta love it. Those plants are 8-ish months old now so they should flower pretty good. I should see the flip starting any day now. I'm so happy they survived.

Indeed

How much longer do yours have approximately, until harvest?

I honestly don't know. I am very disappointed in the Blueberry and Red Mimosa flowers. They are skinny and tiny and will amount to no more than a bunch of frosty larf unless they fatten up and there are no signs of that happening. The pistils are starting to turn brown now on all three plants. I'd guess at 3 or 4 weeks, but I really don't know. They are 67 days old now, which is nearly 10 weeks. They are supposed to be done according to breeder estimates, but are far from it. They look more like 7 or 8 week old plants, so let's see.

 

[Carmen Ray]

How was your reunion? How did the friends enjoy the cannagar?

 

[Azimuth]

Well, about 5 days after being given the tea the target plant brixed at 10 with a well defined calcium line. Pretty disappointing as I thought I'd get at least a little bump so if I did it sure didn't last long.

It was tested about an hour before lights out in the box with a barometer reading of 29.93 and sunny skies expected this morning but rain this afternoon. Not sure how far in advance the plant would send sugars down to the roots ahead of the rain but I would think it would want to take advantage of the nice clear and sunny skies in the flower box for at least a little but.

Maybe this soil just isn't capable of higher numbers. I think I may do a tea every ten days anyway just for the practice if nothing else.

I'm more sanguine after thinking about this a bit more today.

It occurred to me that although I had bone meal in my tea, that stuff's going to need more than 24 hours to breakdown even with the multitude of microbes created in the tea and, even if some did start to get broken down by the microbes already, it'll likely be a couple of weeks before it makes any noticeable impact on the plants.

The target plant is in week 6 so any changes likely will have minimal impact on that one but the improved soil will be better for the next round so I'll continue on with the aerated teas but make some changes to that process.

I'm going to probably get on an every 2 week schedule rather than a 10 day one and have it fall on the weekend when I'm more likely to have time to spread the tea, add my flower crumble which should break down much faster than the bone meal, and add the tea in an amount of my normal watering rather than soaking the pot which should keep it more on its regular watering schedule.

While I would have certainly preferred an instant response, I need to remember we're operating on garden time here and I need to be patient.

 

[budnoob3]

I'm more sanguine after thinking about this a bit more today.

It occurred to me that although I had bone meal in my tea, that stuff's going to need more than 24 hours to breakdown even with the multitude of microbes created in the tea and, even if some did start to get broken down by the microbes already, it'll likely be a couple of weeks before it makes any noticeable impact on the plants.

The target plant is in week 6 so any changes likely will have minimal impact on that one but the improved soil will be better for the next round so I'll continue on with the aerated teas but make some changes to that process.

I'm going to probably get on an every 2 week schedule rather than a 10 day one and have it fall on the weekend when I'm more likely to have time to spread the tea, add my flower crumble which should break down much faster than the bone meal, and add the tea in an amount of my normal watering rather than soaking the pot which should keep it more on its regular watering schedule.

While I would have certainly preferred an instant response, I need to remember we're operating on garden time here and I need to be patient.

I like your thinking, keep notes on everything to look back on. If I notice a deficiency on a grow and have notes then I have an indication for the next grow for when I need to add bone meal for example. To your point, I can now add some two weeks earlier to try and avoid the deficiency assuming my soil, inputs, etc are roughly the same. Cheers

 

[Gee64]

I'm more sanguine after thinking about this a bit more today.

Good

It occurred to me that although I had bone meal in my tea, that stuff's going to need more than 24 hours to breakdown even with the multitude of microbes created in the tea and, even if some did start to get broken down by the microbes already, it'll likely be a couple of weeks before it makes any noticeable impact on the plants.

Remember how this convo started, you were going to add sugar water and we talked it into this.

The reason you still want and should add a bit of bone meal, a bit of glacial rock dust, a bit of srp, minerals, flower crumble, any P source,is because if you are going to use molasses water then you may as well add the ewc for sure, grow microbes in it, why not, and then if you are going to add microbes and explode their population then you may as well add P minerals and make the microbes eat that with the molasses and those that die have bellies full of P, which is almost instantly available, those that live were born eating sugar and P, so exudates to mine P isn't foreign to them, and you toss some kelp/seaweed in because... why wouldn't you, but it's not instant P, it's the fastest way to get P in. It also boosts microbes.

The target plant is in week 6 so any changes likely will have minimal impact on that one but the improved soil will be better for the next round so I'll continue on with the aerated teas but make some changes to that process.

You are correct, minimal isn't quite right, let's say lesser, because some P is being used already, so it's worth it.

The problem isn't the tea, the problem is that every day from birth a plant needs a smidge more P than it did the day before, so of all the nutrients it's the most important one to be ahead on from day 1, never playing catchup. Next build will be better AND it will contain some of this soil which has P miners at almost high brix levels to innoculate it with. Your last batch of soil had lesser microbes than that so effort now snowballs from rebuild to rebuild. When you boost global P on the rebuild these microbes will be ready for it.

I'm going to probably get on an every 2 week schedule rather than a 10 day one and have it fall on the weekend when I'm more likely to have time to spread the tea, add my flower crumble which should break down much faster than the bone meal, and add the tea in an amount of my normal watering rather than soaking the pot which should keep it more on its regular watering schedule.

One heavy drenching every 2 weeks won't be harmful if you drain the res. The best way really is to fully water, drain the res, then fully water with tea and drain the res again, it gets the tea in best.

While I would have certainly preferred an instant response, I need to remember we're operating on garden time here and I need to be patient.

Bingo. You have learned a ton about brix with this soil, now your learning how to make this soil better for next grow by plugging holes to raise the floor of the rebuild.

Patience is everything.

If you get this soil a bit higher in P before rebuild, then add more globally next grow you will likely be high brix well before veg is over.

The next grow after that will be excellent as all aspects of the soil will be fortified by then. Myco, microbes, and recycled minerals all ready to go.

 

[Gee64]

Day 9 and 3.

LC tall pheno.

Miss Sticky.

LC short pheno.

Durban and the late LC. I thought it was whorled when I popped the helmet off but it it is normal. That's probably a good thing.

The clones are still not rooting but it's early.

These 2 are still cannabilizing and popping new hairs.

 

[Gee64]

Outdoors

RVDV.

RVDV.

RVDV.

The manifolder, fully rehydrated.

The eggplants recovered but they lost 1 fruit and a few leaves are yellowing. They have tons of blossoms but didn't lose any. They seem to like weed soil.

 

[budnoob3]

Good

Remember how this convo started, you were going to add sugar water and we talked it into this.

The reason you still want and should add a bit of bone meal, a bit of glacial rock dust, a bit of srp, minerals, flower crumble, any P source,is because if you are going to use molasses water then you may as well add the ewc for sure, grow microbes in it, why not, and then if you are going to add microbes and explode their population then you may as well add P minerals and make the microbes eat that with the molasses and those that die have bellies full of P, which is almost instantly available, those that live were born eating sugar and P, so exudates to mine P isn't foreign to them, and you toss some kelp/seaweed in because... why wouldn't you, but it's not instant P, it's the fastest way to get P in. It also boosts microbes.

You are correct, minimal isn't quite right, let's say lesser, because some P is being used already, so it's worth it.

The problem isn't the tea, the problem is that every day from birth a plant needs a smidge more P than it did the day before, so of all the nutrients it's the most important one to be ahead on from day 1, never playing catchup. Next build will be better AND it will contain some of this soil which has P miners at almost high brix levels to innoculate it with. Your last batch of soil had lesser microbes than that so effort now snowballs from rebuild to rebuild. When you boost global P on the rebuild these microbes will be ready for it.

One heavy drenching every 2 weeks won't be harmful if you drain the res. The best way really is to fully water, drain the res, then fully water with tea and drain the res again, it gets the tea in best.

Bingo. You have learned a ton about brix with this soil, now your learning how to make this soil better for next grow by plugging holes to raise the floor of the rebuild.

Patience is everything.

If you get this soil a bit higher in P before rebuild, then add more globally next grow you will likely be high brix well before veg is over.

The next grow after that will be excellent as all aspects of the soil will be fortified by then. Myco, microbes, and recycled minerals all ready to go.

This is the kind of info I love most, you have actually shared similar many times and have me convinced that I need to lay off the sugar/molasses at some point. Why, because to paraphrase your point I tend to agree that I’m turning my microbes into little junkies and not allowing the natural order of things to kick in. I have all the compost, worm farm, etc already in place so I just need to prove you right to myself at some point. Given that I’ve got a bunch of junkie germs I’m guessing I’ll need to wean them off the sugar but not sure how I’d start. I do have plenty of reserves now and could afford to sacrifice at least half of next couple grows for testing. Any recommendations on how you’d approach that?
My guy was telling me that I would start by using the fish fert recipe Azi showed me that I’m brewing since I haven’t used it with my grows. Only thing I’ve consistently used is seaweed I gather from beach. As I start using that I would then scale back diluted molasses by half or so to start. My compost and worms already get some form of what we’ve all talked about already and I started with the dried popcorn buds everywhere as well. Does that seem reasonable way to start?

 

[Gee64]

This is the kind of info I love most, you have actually shared similar many times and have me convinced that I need to lay off the sugar/molasses at some point. Why, because to paraphrase your point I tend to agree that I’m turning my microbes into little junkies and not allowing the natural order of things to kick in. I have all the compost, worm farm, etc already in place so I just need to prove you right to myself at some point. Given that I’ve got a bunch of junkie germs I’m guessing I’ll need to wean them off the sugar but not sure how I’d start. I do have plenty of reserves now and could afford to sacrifice at least half of next couple grows for testing. Any recommendations on how you’d approach that?

Cut them off next grow but by adding minerals now to your teas you will brew P miners eating P from birth, as a compost tea is really a giant explosion in microbial population. Start the P cycle now and by next grow with your rebuilt soil you will have a better base, and this grow you won't wreck your crop. It will still be at the very least what you are used to growing.

If you are over 12 brix already then you can dial the molasses back now and topdress minerals instead of teas as the microbes are already mining P for exudates so they already know what to do, but I would stick with what has worked for you in the past until harvest, then start a new grow with a different approach. It would suck if you crashed this grow.

I find shifting gears never goes well unless its to using fish ferts, and/or learning to dry down soil thats to wet.

 

[budnoob3]

Agreed, I’m not changing anything this grow, if for no other reason than to show I’m not completely full of it to the haters

 

[budnoob3]

Can you elaborate on adding minerals to tea? Which minerals? Are we talking about minerals above and beyond the sources already in the compost or worm bins?

 

[Azimuth]

One heavy drenching every 2 weeks won't be harmful if you drain the res. The best way really is to fully water, drain the res, then fully water with tea and drain the res again, it gets the tea in best.

The target plant is in my old SIP structure pot which makes draining the reservoir a real challenge but the next one up will be in my new net pot SIP which will make it super easy so I'll probably start that double water technique next round.

If you get this soil a bit higher in P before rebuild, then add more globally next grow you will likely be high brix well before veg is over.

From your lips to God's ears! And the next round will get this tea from the jump so hopefully that one will have a head start.

If you are over 12 brix already then you can dial the molasses back now and topdress minerals instead of teas as the microbes are already mining P for exudates so they already know what to do,

Hmmmm. I thought molasses in the tea was necessary to spike the microbe numbers from the added castings, even if the target soil already has high brix. But maybe what you're saying is that if already high brix you already have P mining microbes so it's not necessary to spike them, and maybe even works against you by throwing off the balance?

 

[Gee64]

The target plant is in my old SIP structure pot which makes draining the reservoir a real challenge but the next one up will be in my new net pot SIP which will make it super easy so I'll probably start that double water technique next round.


From your lips to God's ears! And the next round will get this tea from the jump so hopefully that one will have a head start.


Hmmmm. I thought molasses in the tea was necessary to spike the microbe numbers from the added castings, even if the target soil already has high brix. But maybe what you're saying is that if already high brix you already have P mining microbes so it's not necessary to spike them, and maybe even works against you by throwing off the balance?

note: When I say feed the microbes, myco is included as well.

Molasses is microbe food. It mimics exudates. So if you add it to a tea it should be for 1 of 2 reasons.

1. If you are low on carbon in the soil it will provide lots to the microbes, thats the microbial boost it provides.

2.If you are brewing a microbial tea then you need a carbon source in the tea to allow the microbial population to explode in the tea.

In this manner you only want to add enough to get the microbes thru the brewing process. Once into the soil you want them to get carbon from exudates, not molasses.

The plant, with myco's help, will release exudates where the required nutrients are at in the soil and when the microbes eat the exudates they also eat the required nutrients to poop out at the root that released the exudates, or where myco transferred the exudates to, and myco moves the poop to the root. P is the main target here for the exudates. This is why myco is referred to as a najor P miner.

If you add molasses to your soil regularly the microbes won't chase exudates, they will chase molasses instead. So one dose of molasses in the soil will boost carbon and make the microbes robust, but too often and they get lazy. They won't chase exudates they will wait for molasses.

If you are already high brix then you are sequesterring carbon. The plant pulls CO2 from the air and creates carbon rich exudates from it to sustain it's microbes. It makes them it's bitches. They will populate the soil.

So once you are high brix you no longer need to add microbes, thus negating the need for molasses and teas.

If you have the 5 main components of high brix available in adequate amounts, high brix occurs. Calcium, O2, Carbon, P, and microbes/fungii.

Your brix is lower than 12 so at least 1 is missing. You know Cal is good, O2 is good, and you have microbes, that leaves carbon and P. You don't want the carbon to come from the soil, it needs to come from the air and into exudates.

The only reason you should be using a tea right now is to up P, and by adding microbes to the tea you are processing the P into a plant friendly manner in the quickest route.

To keep those microbes alive you need to add molasses or they starve in the tea.

You aren't adding microbes here because you need more microbes, you are adding them to fill their bellies with P to poop out in the soil once they get poured in. Myco will find the poop.

Once you become high brix you don't need any of that, you just need a supply of minerals to have exudates squirted on for consumption. In the ground the roots will just grow farther to find minerals, but in a pot you have to keep supplying them.

So to answer your question, once you are high brix you no longer need to add microbes, thus negating the need of all tea aspects. Top dressing will work now to supply those minerals without the use of molasses. Exudates have replaced molasses as the microbial feed.

Hopefully that answers your question. If not, please say so, this is an important aspect of high brix to get your head around. We are priming the pump here but you don't want to prime it forever, you want it to become self sustaining.

You need more P at the root level to be able to pull enough carbon from atmosphere. So we prime the system and if it works.... no more teas.

By doing it this way P becomes available in 5-7 days, not 10-14. So we check brix in a week and go from there.

 

[Gee64]

They were glad to see you! A little wilty but no problem! Those programmers

Crafty lil devils they are

 

[Gee64]

How was your reunion? How did the friends enjoy the cannagar?

It was a ton of fun. They did enjoy it. It didn't shut things down but people were pretty slow the next day