The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It

[Gee64]

It's not a Sip, but it's very similar.

Aren’t you simply talking about watering and letting the cloth pot sit in any runoff and soak it up as desired? Thus bottom wicking in a sense?

Thats exactly what I'm doing.

I do it that way. Not always with organics, but always with coco. I understand a SIP is essentially a wicking system, but if that’s all you’re doing (and again, I do this too so I’m not saying a negative thing with “if that’s all you’re doing”), and you’re saying it’s very close to or essentially the same as a SIP, then I’m wondering why anyone bothers with the actual SIP?

Sips are hard pots that allow air in both top and bottom, as opposed to a conventional hard pot that only lets air in up top. Thats a huge plus.

(Don’t get bent, @Azimuth, lmao). All I see with SIPs is an ultra high level of maintenance and checking and adjusting. This here like you’re doing g is beyond easy.

Cloth pots

Couldn’t BE easier. So if it’s “pretty close,” then why? What’s better about a SIP that you won’t get don g it as you are here?

Ouch, I don't want to answer that one, the sippers will not like it, and sipping is just another way to allow even more people to increase the fun of growing.

That answer will evolve all on it's own but the things people learn along the way are unbelievably valuable.

Azi is in the middle of it now.

And some simply can't grow in cloth due to grow space limitations.

 

[Azimuth]

I have a plan, and a pan, and I need the pan for the plan man.

I have 2 clones in cloth pots on days 7 and 4 since flip, so pretty close.

I will put 1 in a pan and let it catch the runoff and we can see if it works out differently.

I will water each the same amount unless 1 needs a different amount for some reason, but otherwise they will get the same amounts.

Well, they won't get the same amounts. The one with the pan will get appreciably more since it gets the entire thing whereas the other gets whatever lower percentage doesn't drip out to waste.

I've got a similar thing going on a couple of fuchsia plants. The one in a SIP structure is noticeably better and I've done the same thing with equal waterings.

But yours are cloth pots so that will be an interesting angle.

 

[Azimuth]

Ouch, I don't want to answer that one, the sippers will not like it, and sipping is just another way to allow even more people to increase the fun of growing.

That answer will evolve all on it's own but the things people learn along the way are unbelievably valuable.

Azi is in the middle of it now.

You can go ahead and answer it now. We are here to share as you know.

 

[Gee64]

You can go ahead and answer it now. We are here to share as you know.

The short answer, nothing beats a cloth pot for air. Its the 2nd air chamber in a SIP that gives the explosive growth, not the subterranean reservoir. Cloth pots can outperform Sips because of the air intake.

 

[Gidorah]

All I see with SIPs is an ultra high level of maintenance and checking and adjusting. This here like you’re doing it is beyond easy. Couldn’t BE easier. So if it’s “pretty close,” then why? What’s better about a SIP that you won’t get doing it as you are here?

Thats a legitimate question. My experience with SIP's has been great, fill the rez and top dress with Geoflora as directed and top water it in. Never had issues and grow great stuff that gets nothing but compliments. SIP's are easy peezy, look at the dipstick and fill as needed. Still, I love this conversation and appreciate everyone's thoughts and open mind and always looking to learn new stuff that will apply to outdoor grows too.

 

[StoneOtter]

 

[Gidorah]

Lol, not wanting to start a debate about what's best. I think the path that Gee and Azi are taking us down is a wonderful discussion. Water sticks and brix are things I never used, hell, I even bought Rev's book and am excited to make my own soil. Cloth pots are probably in my future to as I evolve.

 

[Azimuth]

The short answer, nothing beats a cloth pot for air. Its the 2nd air chamber in a SIP that gives the explosive growth, not the subterranean reservoir. Cloth pots can outperform Sips because of the air intake.

But can a cloth pot out perform a net pot SIP?

That is the question we will see play out next round.

 

[Gee64]

Well, they won't get the same amounts. The one with the pan will get appreciably more since it gets the entire thing whereas the other gets whatever lower percentage doesn't drip out to waste.

Thats how a sip should be used. It catches runoff and rehydrates without over hydrating. With LOS, not synthetics.

I've got a similar thing going on a couple of fuchsia plants. The one in a SIP structure is noticeably better and I've done the same thing with equal waterings.

But yours are cloth pots so that will be an interesting angle.

Extra water in the pan rehydrating vs extra air in the non-panned one. Interesting indeed. If I manage the top watering correctly the non-panned one should out perform due to better air intake in equal moisture, but it should also require more frequent waterings.

 

[Gee64]

But can a cloth pot out perform a net pot SIP?

That is the question we will see play out next round.

Now that is a good question!

 

[Gee64]

But can a cloth pot out perform a net pot SIP?

That is the question we will see play out next round.

Technically isn't that a swick?

 

[Azimuth]

Technically isn't that a swick?

How do you figure? Same exact structure as my other set up with soil above, water area below and a connector pot filled with soil between them. The only difference is the plastic pot has aeration holes sides and bottom. I build my 1L SIPs with side wall aeration holes though the net pot aeration openings are significantly greater.

A Swick to me uses a non-soil wick, typically rope or fabric but also can be perlite and the like. So really more of a totally independent water source from the main mix with a wicking material between them.

That's how I define it, other may have their own definitions.

 

[Gee64]

How do you figure? Same exact structure as my other set up with soil above, water area below and a connector pot filled with soil between them. The only difference is the plastic pot has aeration holes sides and bottom. I build my 1L SIPs with side wall aeration holes though the net pot aeration openings are significantly greater.

A Swick to me uses a non-soil wick, typically rope or fabric but also can be perlite and the like. So really more of a totally independent water source from the main mix with a wicking material between them.

That's how I define it, other may have their own definitions.

Oh Ok, I thought it was the one with the hydroton balls up touching the netting.
Like a cloth pot on a perlite bed.

 

[Azimuth]

Oh Ok, I thought it was the one with the hydroton balls up touching the netting.
Like a cloth pot on a perlite bed.

Oh, that one's a few grows out. I'm not sure what you'd call that one since the idea is little to no wicking from the connector pot.

 

[Gee64]

Thats a legitimate question. My experience with SIP's has been great, fill the rez and top dress with Geoflora as directed and top water it in. Never had issues and grow great stuff that gets nothing but compliments. SIP's are easy peezy, look at the dipstick and fill as needed. Still, I love this conversation and appreciate everyone's thoughts and open mind and always looking to learn new stuff that will apply to outdoor grows too.

Do you use a commercial Sip or a homemade one G? And yeah, Geoflora is good stuff. Watering it in is the key. It's formulated to be semi-slow release.

Your Sip design and mix must be the key to not getting too wet. Tell us more

 

[Gee64]

Programming.

June 7th

June 9th.

Hmmmmm....

 

[Gidorah]

Do you use a commercial Sip or a homemade one G? And yeah, Geoflora is good stuff. Watering it in is the key. It's formulated to be semi-slow release.

Your Sip design and mix must be the key to not getting too wet. Tell us more

Nothing crazy. I bought a system that goes into a 5 gallon paint bucket. It was my first time growing and I wanted it to be easy with off the shelf stuff. I believe it's on the SIP's club 1st page. The soil was Fox Farms Happy Frog mixed with some Ocean Forest. About as easy as it gets, add in the Geoflora and I was off and running. I did have a 3 gallon cloth pot that I grew with too but those plants were always smaller, understandable since it had less room for roots. During veg, I filled the reservoir as soon as it got low, early on, that could be a week but as the plant got bigger, it was every 2 or 3 days. Never really had issues, guess I was lucky. This is my 3rd year growing now and it still works.

 

[Azimuth]

My flowering plant looks pretty good save the thrip and mite damage, but seems to be a pretty deep shade of green which I associate with high N. I don't see much clawing though there are some leaves with it.

Can this be attributed to the flush a few weeks back and now the system is coming to life? Normally that would happen in veg where the extra N is needed but I assume this will compromise my harvest a bit.

What I'm hoping is that this is a very short term issue caused by the soil all of a sudden being freed up to process properly and it's burning off the newly freed up nutes, especially N and that after this initial thrust the plant will settle into a healthier state.

Brix is 11 with a moderately fuzzy line.

 

[Gee64]

My flowering plant looks pretty good save the thrip and mite damage, but seems to be a pretty deep shade of green which I associate with high N. I don't see much clawing though there are some leaves with it.

Can this be attributed to the flush a few weeks back and now the system is coming to life? Normally that would happen in veg where the extra N is needed but I assume this will compromise my harvest a bit.

What I'm hoping is that this is a very short term issue caused by the soil all of a sudden being freed up to process properly and it's burning off the newly freed up nutes, especially N and that after this initial thrust the plant will settle into a healthier state.

Brix is 11 with a moderately fuzzy line.

It's most likely calcium homogenizing and relaxing magnesium to release built up soil nitrogen.

A root drench almost always causes nitrogen toxicity. It doesn't last long. It releases quickly.

Pretty much every grow I do needs a root soaking at least once so pretty much every grow has some clawed leaves.

The toxicity usually only hits one set of leaves and they stay clawed forever right across the whole plant at that level.

I do a drench at about 3 weeks old, another at 5-6 weeks and a last one at flip for stretch to burn off so when buds start there isn't any excess nitrogen locked in the soil like a bomb.

These small pots are getting dolomite water every few days so that excess isn't building but the 1st dolomite water clawed some leaves.

 

[Gee64]

RVDV - Day 22, 22, 8, and 5 of Flower.

The 4 mains are getting quite long.

clawed leaves.

Some here too but not as bad.