The Cannabis Kitchen - Cooking With Cannabis

[Azimuth]

It doesn't make logical sense to me unless there is some magic in the starch that makes it more potent.

So maybe I am taking too much undiluted oil and I need a few drops rather than a whole tsp.

Am I making sense?

Seems like we are talking past each other.

There are a couple of factors here.

One is the strength of the oil which doesn't matter to you yet since you are using the same oil to test both straight up and dissolved into a powder. But, once you figure out if the powder version is indeed more efficient there are likely ways you can make your oil more potent for the same volume and therefore possible need even less volume per dose. But that happens on the front end when you make your oil.

The second is whether or not the powder is more effective at being absorbed by the body and therefore requires a lower dose for the same previous effect. If that's the case, you'd need less oil per dose. And, if you can make your oil more potent than the original recipe calls for, you'd need an even lower dose still.

So, first is finding out if a smaller amount of oil in the powder gets the results you want.

So, write out your recipe and we can math it out.

 

[Carmen Ray]

I get that, but how much powder are you dissolving your oil into? And do you need comparatively less oil for the same result?

What did you use for a recipe?

I used these proportions to make the powder:

250g starch: 1tsp lecithin: 60ml cannabis oil / 12 tsp oil

and I take about 15 ml per dose. I need to math it to find out how many milliliters of oil I am using per dose. When I take the oil straight, I take a tsp of oil to achieve the desired result.

Here, I mix 60 mls of oil into 250 g starch and take two heaped tsp. I got this recipe off this thread!

 

[Carmen Ray]

Seems like we are talking past each other.

There are a couple of factors here.

One is the strength of the oil which doesn't matter to you yet since you are using the same oil to test both straight up and dissolved into a powder. But, once you figure out if the powder version is indeed more efficient there are likely ways you can make your oil more potent for the same volume and therefore possible need even less volume per dose. But that happens on the front end when you make your oil.

Yes.

The second is whether or not the powder is more effective at being absorbed by the body and therefore requires a lower dose for the same previous effect. If that's the case, you'd need less oil per dose. And, if you can make your oil more potent than the original recipe calls for, you'd need an even lower dose still.

This is what I am wondering. If this is the case I'd like to understand the science of it.

So, first is finding out if a smaller amount of oil in the powder gets the results you want.

I have established that for real today. I took two teaspoons this morning before going to the airport, only to discover I was buzzing big time and had to navigate the airport zooted. I'm testing it out on my son and his girlfriend tonight, but I have established that it is effective for me at 2 tsp. That is a big saving because I would usually take 1 tsp of undiluted oil to feel zooted.

So, write out your recipe and we can math it out.

Yes, I think we were talking past each other.

The method I use to make oil is I literally just cover the decarbed flower in oil (olive which Shed assures me is the correct oil to use for medication rather than coconut oil which is better for recreational effects - circa Sweet Sue), and then I infuse it in two 8 hour sessions in a double boiler because that's all I have at my disposal. I used to do it in the oven until the oven died lol. I do 8 hours of heating and stirring. After 8 hours I leave it to cool completely for several hours / overnight, and then set it to run another 8 hours in the double boiler. I learnt this method from the Sweet Sue thread.

 

[Azimuth]

Here, I mix 60 mls of oil into 250 g starch and take two heaped tsp. I got this recipe off this thread!

Ok, but you have a volume measurement and a weight measurement so we have to convert. Do you know what volume 250 g of starch is?

@Lady Cannafan and I both got about 3g/teaspoon with the malto but I think you used something else.

 

[Azimuth]

This is what I am wondering. If this is the case I'd like to understand the science of it.

I think what is happening is that the oil is being absorbed by the carbohydrate which is then more easily absorbed by the body (think of the blood sugar spike when you eat something high on the glycemic scale.) That has to be it since there's so few moving parts.

The method I use to make oil is I literally just cover the decarbed flower in oil (olive which Shed assures me is the correct oil to use for medication rather than coconut oil which is better for recreational effects - circa Sweet Sue)

If you want to know your actual dose you'll need to measure how many grams you used in your 60ml of oil next time you make it. If you don't care that much as to what the actual numbers are that's fine but I'll bet you're pretty close to what I get maybe even more. I put 4 grams of bud into each ounce of oil which just covers the material much like you're doing, and that's much more than the typical 1 g per ounce found in many recipies.

Shed is correct on choice of oil and that has to do with the molecular structure of the two oils. Coconut is a medium chain triglyceride (MCT) and has way more saturated fat than olive oil and so is able to absorb much more of the cannabinoids. It is easy to break down and is used for fuel rather than storage in the body.

Olive oil is a long chain triglyceride (LCT) and is harder for the body to break down and so survives the first pass through the liver more intact and therefore more is available for storage primarily in the lymph nodes and fatty tissues.

I learnt this method from the Sweet Sue thread.

Same, though I use an Instant Pot. Couldn't be any easier.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

I think what is happening is that the oil is being absorbed by the carbohydrate which is then more easily absorbed by the body (think of the blood sugar spike when you eat something high on the glycemic scale.) That has to be it since there's so few moving parts.


If you want to know your actual dose you'll need to measure how many grams you used in your 60ml of oil next time you make it. If you don't care that much as to what the actual numbers are that's fine but I'll bet you're pretty close to what I get maybe even more. I put 4 grams of bud into each ounce of oil which just covers the material much like you're doing, and that's much more than the typical 1 g per ounce found in many recipies.

Shed is correct on choice of oil and that has to do with the molecular structure of the two oils. Coconut is a medium chain triglyceride (MCT) and has way more saturated fat than olive oil and so is able to absorb much more of the cannabinoids. It is easy to break down and is used for fuel rather than storage in the body.

Olive oil is a long chain triglyceride (LCT) and is harder for the body to break down and so survives the first pass through the liver more intact and therefore more is available for storage primarily in the lymph nodes and fatty tissues.


Same, though I use an Instant Pot. Couldn't be any easier.

You, Sir....are a wealth of information. I would have to agree on the absorption being faster as you explained. It's the only thing I've been able to consider reasonable on how this powder performs. Thanks for your info!

 

[Carmen Ray]

Ok, but you have a volume measurement and a weight measurement so we have to convert. Do you know what volume 250 g of starch is?

@Lady Cannafan and I both got about 3g/teaspoon with the malto but I think you used something else.

I've always understood a tsp to hold 5 ml / 5 g of stuff.
Teaspoons and tablespoons are commonly used measurements in cooking and baking. A teaspoon can hold about 5 grams of liquid or powder, while a tablespoon can hold roughly 15 grams. However, when it comes to measuring ingredients accurately, grams offer a more precise measurement.

If you want to know your actual dose you'll need to measure how many grams you used in your 60ml of oil next time you make it.

starch - 250 g

lecithin 1tsp / 5 g in 60 ml / 60 g oil / 12 tsp

I used cornflower as my starch. I weighed it on a scale, so I didn't get a volume measurement.

I think what is happening is that the oil is being absorbed by the carbohydrate which is then more easily absorbed by the body (think of the blood sugar spike when you eat something high on the glycemic scale.) That has to be it since there's so few moving parts.

Yes that makes sense.

If you want to know your actual dose you'll need to measure how many grams you used in your 60ml of oil next time you make it.

60g as above

If you don't care that much as to what the actual numbers are that's fine but I'll bet you're pretty close to what I get maybe even more.

I'd certainly be interested.

I put 4 grams of bud into each ounce of oil which just covers the material much like you're doing, and that's much more than the typical 1 g per ounce found in many recipies.

I need it strong otherwise I don't feel it. I use a lot of bud to a relatively small amount of oil, just to saturate the crumbled weed.

Shed is correct on choice of oil and that has to do with the molecular structure of the two oils. Coconut is a medium chain triglyceride (MCT) and has way more saturated fat than olive oil and so is able to absorb much more of the cannabinoids. It is easy to break down and is used for fuel rather than storage in the body.

Olive oil is a long chain triglyceride (LCT) and is harder for the body to break down and so survives the first pass through the liver more intact and therefore more is available for storage primarily in the lymph nodes and fatty tissues.

Ok that's really interesting thanks.

Same, though I use an Instant Pot. Couldn't be any easier.

One day...

 

[Azimuth]

I've always understood a tsp to hold 5 ml / 5 g of stuff.
Teaspoons and tablespoons are commonly used measurements in cooking and baking. A teaspoon can hold about 5 grams of liquid or powder, while a tablespoon can hold roughly 15 grams. However, when it comes to measuring ingredients accurately, grams offer a more precise measurement.

That might be true of liquids but I would think for dry ingredients like powders it depends on the density of that material. As I said above Lady and I both got roughly 3 grams per teaspoon, not 5, of the malto.

It would be easy enough for you to test to see how many teaspoons of cornstarch in 60 grams, or conversely what do say 10 level teaspoons of starch weigh and then extrapolate up to your 60.

Since you're dosing in heaping teaspoons but measuring your recipe in grams you need to convert your weight in grams to its equivalent in volume.

So, knowing how many grams of bud in the 60ml of oil and what the thc strength of that bud is will tell us how many total cannabinoids are available from your sample, and then knowing the total volume of 60 grams of starch will put it all on the same metric.

For example, with the malto, the recipe called for what turned out to be about 5 teaspoons of malto for each teaspoon of oil, 5:1. So in your example if the same metrics held true, and you used 1 teaspoon of straight oil, that would be equivalent to 5 teaspoons of powder. But you say you only need 2 teaspoons of your cornstarch which would make it 2.5 times more efficient. Said another way, you'd only need 40% of the original oil to get the same effect or 60% less per dose than the straight oil without your cornstarch.

But we can figure out your specific numbers if everything is measured in the same metrics and, since you dose in volume (teaspoons), that's the one to convert to.

60g as above

But how many grams of bud in that 60g/ml of oil? 60ml is 2 oz or 4 tablespoons or 12 teaspoons. For me that would be 8 grams of bud.

I need it strong otherwise I don't feel it. I use a lot of bud to a relatively small amount of oil, just to saturate the crumbled weed.

Or in our case we're really trying to do the inverse, saturate the oil with the bud since we discard the flower material before use, which calls into question the saturation level of various oils.

Just because we stuff say 8 grams of bud into 4 tablespoons of oil doesn't mean the oil can hold all of the canabinoids available. Maybe olive oil is saturated at 3 grams and the extra 5 is wasted, whereas maybe coconut can hold 6 grams and two is wasted. Or maybe both could hold 10 grams if we could get it all saturated. That's the info I've not been able to find.

 

[KingJohnC]

why are you not concentrating sacred healing

 

[Azimuth]

why are you not concentrating sacred healing

I have no idea what that means.

 

[KingJohnC]

why are you diluting a concentrate?

 

[Lady Cannafan]

why are you diluting a concentrate?

John, we are experimenting with water soluble dissolvable THC powder which is supposed to be a faster bioavailability than straight concentrate and using less to gain maximum effects, among other things like the taste and the many uses for a powder in edibles and liquids.
Correct me if I'm wrong @Azimuth, we aren't actually "diluting" a concentrate, I think of it as spreading it around in the powder that absorbs it...if that makes sense.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

@KingJohnC

The following is from the Royal Queen Seeds Website, and explains the use and benefits of the Cannabis Powder:


Cannabis oil powder sounds like an oxymoron at first, but it’ll all make sense when you view the recipe below. The process involves combining cannabis oil with a carb-rich emulsifier. This combination causes water-hating cannabinoids to behave more like water lovers. Cannabis powder features improved bioavailability and a quicker onset.

• It’s Water-Soluble​

Water-soluble cannabinoids aren’t only created in the confines of kitted-out laboratories. By combining the right ingredients, you can endow cannabinoids with water-soluble traits. Cannabis powder features cannabis oil (a water-repelling mixture) with an emulsifier that enables cannabinoids to happily mingle with water molecules.

Because the human body consists of around 60% water, this enables THC and other chemicals of interest to start to diffuse through our systems as soon as they enter the mouth.

What Are the Benefits of Cannabis Powder?​

There are myriad benefits to weed powder. As well as better bioavailability and faster onset, it stands as a robust product with loads of potential. Budding cannabis chefs can unleash their creativity with THC powder by adding it to a host of tasty recipes. Not only will it go down well in a variety of sweet and savoury food choices (from banana bread to soups), but users can effortlessly add a teaspoon to their afternoon tea or coffee for some fast-acting elevation.

Rapid onset also moves this edible product closer to smoking and sublingual administration, as it allows users to dose more quickly and in a much more subtle manner. Eating infused brownies alongside your lunch looks a lot less conspicuous than unscrewing the lid to a dropper bottle or disappearing and coming back to the office smelling of weed.

 

[Lady Cannafan]

@Carmen Ray
I hope you got through the airport okay. ;-) You mentioned you were going to have relatives try the powder, how did that go? Any feedback from them on it?

 

[Carmen Ray]

That might be true of liquids but I would think for dry ingredients like powders it depends on the density of that material. As I said above Lady and I both got roughly 3 grams per teaspoon, not 5, of the malto.

A note about the malto. I have decided I will not use it. My son is a bodybuilder / health nut and has advised against it he says it is used for energy and I will get fat fast. He says it is a potential health risk.

It would be easy enough for you to test to see how many teaspoons of cornstarch in 60 grams, or conversely what do say 10 teaspoons of starch weigh and then extrapolate up to your 60.

Yes, I can count the tsp in 60 g.

Since you're dosing in heaping teaspoons but measuring your recipe in grams you need to convert your weight in grams to its equivalent in volume.
So, knowing how many grams of bud in the 60ml of oil and what the thc strength of that bud is will tell us how many total cannabinoids are available from your sample, and then knowing the total volume of 60 grams of starch will put it all on the same metric.

I can weigh the flower but I still won't know the potency without having it tested. Is that enough info to go on?

For example, with the malto, the recipe called for what turned out to be about 5 teaspoons of malto for each teaspoon of oil, 5:1. So in your example if the same metrics held true, and you used 1 teaspoon of oil, that would be equivalent to 5 teaspoons of powder. But you say you only need 2 teaspoons of your cornstarch which would make it 2.5 times more efficient. Said another way, you'd only need 40% of the original oil to get the same effect or 60% less per dose than the straight oil without your cornstartch.

But we can figure out your specific numbers if everything is measured in the same metrics and, since you dose in volume (teaspoons), that's the one to convert to.

Ok, understood. I will count the tsps in 60 g of starch.

But how many grams of bud in that 60g/ml of oil? 60ml is 2 oz or 4 tablespoons or 12 teaspoons. For me that would be 8 grams of bud.

Next time I make it I will measure the bud. I think I used about 30g bud to make the oil for this last batch but I don't know how much oil.

Or in our case we're really trying to do the inverse, saturate the oil with the bud since we discard the flower material before use, which calls into question the saturation level of various oils.

Ok, yes.

Just because we stuff say 8 grams of bud into 4 tablespoons of oil doesn't mean the oil can hold all of the canbabinoids available. Maybe olive oil is saturated at 3 grams and the extra 5 is wasted, whereas maybe coconut can hold 6 grams and two is wasted. Or maybe both could hold 10 grams if we could get it all saturated. That's the info I've not been able to find.

I just follow what Shed and Sweet Sue and that crowd advise because they spent years researching and experimenting. Can you not find anything about this in Sue's thread?

@Carmen Ray
I hope you got through the airport okay. ;-) You mentioned you were going to have relatives try the powder, how did that go? Any feedback from them on it?

Hi LCF I got through fine thanks. We haven't had an opportunity to dose yet. I'll let you know tomorrow probably.

 

[Azimuth]

why are you diluting a concentrate?

We are not. We are extracting the cannabinoids into a carrier oil like olive or coconut, and not producing a concentrate like we would if extracting into alcohol and then evaporating off or smashing the buds in a hot press.

This produces a bitter tasting oil because of the other plant solids that come along in the extraction process. But, it is simple, affordable, and not dangerous to do, so it is a common extraction methodology especially for use in edibles.

Because of its bitter taste, finding ways to incorporate it into edibles is preferable and the powder seems to bring other attributes along for the ride like faster onset (close to inhaling), and much better absorbability so less is needed, or a given amount is more usable medicine like if used with something like the RSO protocol.

 

[Azimuth]

I can weigh the flower but I still won't know the potency without having it tested. Is that enough info to go on?

Breeders estimates will get us close enough at least for maximum potential, but that assumes a perfectly grown plant so we can estimate what the ideal would be and you can discount or not from there.

Can you not find anything about this in Sue's thread?

It's been quite a while since I've read her stuff but I don't recall that question ever being answered.

 

[Azimuth]

Correct me if I'm wrong @Azimuth, we aren't actually "diluting" a concentrate, I think of it as spreading it around in the powder that absorbs it...if that makes sense.

Right. We're not making/using a concentrate at all, but an extraction.

 

[Joe Brewster]

Or in our case we're really trying to do the inverse, saturate the oil with the bud since we discard the flower material before use, which calls into question the saturation level of various oils.

Just because we stuff say 8 grams of bud into 4 tablespoons of oil doesn't mean the oil can hold all of the canabinoids available. Maybe olive oil is saturated at 3 grams and the extra 5 is wasted, whereas maybe coconut can hold 6 grams and two is wasted. Or maybe both could hold 10 grams if we could get it all saturated. That's the info I've not been able to find.

Ever read This I didn’t read it all because I extract with alcohol but found it interesting because of the lab results (closer to the bottom of the page )
Believe they say coconut oil holds the most

 

[KingJohnC]

Because the human body consists of around 60% water, this enables THC and other chemicals of interest to start to diffuse through our systems as soon as they enter the mouth.

​

fact mucus membrane.

how does a emulsifier change individual bio viability?

as an athlete any substance you choose to ingest has proven performance enhancement

carbohydrates do have a measurable mood elevating effect but little effect on creating muscle tissue

a recipe clearly in reality is able to define ingredient process result


this seems to be a non dairy creamer attempt combining cannabis

starch, non dairy creamer do not impart health


what is the sacred concentration of healing essence?