Tead's Indoor-ish, Winter, Hempy, OGK, SOG

SweetSue said:
Hmmmm....... Do we have any idea what causes that?
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Just an example of different phenos in the same strain. As I recall, they're F2, thus not fully stabilized yet with unique characteristics from it's contributors occurring along with unique combinations of those characteristics popping up.

SweetSue said:
Another question, if you will, can you top a clone the same way you would a plant grown from seed?
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I treat them the same. The seeds move a touch quicker and generally make beefier plants, so the timing might differ, but I do everything by observing the plants rather than following a schedule anyway, so it doesn't really matter in my world.
 
Tead said:
Just an example of different phenos in the same strain. As I recall, they're F2, thus not fully stabilized yet with unique characteristics from it's contributors occurring along with unique combinations of those characteristics popping up.



I treat them the same. The seeds move a touch quicker and generally make beefier plants, so the timing might differ, but I do everything by observing the plants rather than following a schedule anyway, so it doesn't really matter in my world.
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Thank you. That was very helpful. I went and took a look at her, and decided I'll stick with LST with this one. She has the prettiest leaves of any I've grown so far.

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I'll remember that with the one I'm rooting now though. I'd like to start getting a consistent profile.
 
Tead said:
Just an example of different phenos in the same strain. As I recall, they're F2, thus not fully stabilized yet with unique characteristics from it's contributors occurring along with unique combinations of those characteristics popping up.



I treat them the same. The seeds move a touch quicker and generally make beefier plants, so the timing might differ, but I do everything by observing the plants rather than following a schedule anyway, so it doesn't really matter in my world.
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Thank you for this post! Now I don't feel that it's all my incompetence when the clones aren't as vigorous as the seeded original. I notice that after a few generations of clones from clones from clones, that the flowers get fewer and fewer, the leaves smaller and smaller, and the nodes get farther apart. Not at all worth the time and expense of keeping them going past the 3rd generation.
 
AKgramma said:
Thank you for this post! Now I don't feel that it's all my incompetence when the clones aren't as vigorous as the seeded original. I notice that after a few generations of clones from clones from clones, that the flowers get fewer and fewer, the leaves smaller and smaller, and the nodes get farther apart. Not at all worth the time and expense of keeping them going past the 3rd generation.
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And, as with all things growing, genetics play the major roll here. Bad cloning plants or ones that get funky after a few generations may not be worth the pain.
In my garden, I feel the UltraDogs have been good cloners that stay stable. The Pineapple Chunk may be getting funky over generations... still watching. The OGKs have been going for many years and have developed some funkiness, but not funkiness that makes them bad. KaliAK, Crit+2.0, and others are still very much in evaluation mode.
 
Guage Steel said:
Just amazing. I dream of a day when I can have something as beautiful as that along side my tulips in my gardens. All of you are artist's. Thanks.

Gauge
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My first tulip flower appeared yesterday and opened today. Photos here ==>> Spring Flower photos



SweetSue said:
Hmmmm....... Do we have any idea what causes that? Still learning the ropes here. Another question, if you will, can you top a clone the same way you would a plant grown from seed?

Look, she's happy. :cheesygrinsmiley:

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Not really, topping a clone does not force new branching, Topping a clone is like LST, the missing top forces growth to the highest remaining branch - so with clones, LST and supercrop are all you have to play with :)



AKgramma said:
Thank you for this post! Now I don't feel that it's all my incompetence when the clones aren't as vigorous as the seeded original. I notice that after a few generations of clones from clones from clones, that the flowers get fewer and fewer, the leaves smaller and smaller, and the nodes get farther apart. Not at all worth the time and expense of keeping them going past the 3rd generation.
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Good growers on this board report 15 generations with no problem

In my own experience:

I have had clones get worse genration after generation where I know it was a problem with soil depletion.
I had a clones series where the best generations in order were (best to worse) 4-1-5-2-3

I have one case where the mother plant yielded 2.5 oz in a normal period of time, the clone had multiple environmental problems and yielded 4 graws after over a year in veg, and clone of clone yielded 2.2 oz in a normal period of time.
 
Radogast said:
Not really, topping a clone does not force new branching, Topping a clone is like LST, the missing top forces growth to the highest remaining branch - so with clones, LST and supercrop are all you have to play with :)
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Really.... I never knew that you'd get different reactions from topping a clone vs seed.
This totally matches my experiences tho... one of the reasons I don't really do much of it.
Plus, my growing habits don't lead to topping seedies. The first gen of any plant I usually grow naturally... just to get acquainted with it... then I grow it's clones from then on.
Gotta try topping a seedie.
Got some autos going too. Letting my first ever autos go natural, but I'll start topping them in the future.



Radogast said:
Good growers on this board report 15 generations with no problem
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You got me wondering...
I planted the OGK seeds around 1 Sep 2013. If I do the math with a 3 month grow cycle, I find myself at about 14 generations, but that actually seems really low.
 
I have to sthrow out my 2 cents,, you can top clones.. You just have to pick the right spot to top and it will split. And the tip isn't it. You top down where you have set of leaves as close together as you can and then you prune it and two new branches will grow.. I guess it really isn't considered topping,, more a prune.. You might have to pinch 2 or 3 leaves before you get the right spot to split you branch. And it has to be a slightly larger plant to work with. But you can work with them and bush them out.
I see the stems on your UD's are totally different then on the variant I'm trying. I'm pretty sure I got one male,, bummer he was the stoutest one.. But these variants stems grow upward damn near straight up, and yours grow close to a 45 degree from the main stem.
I have to prune all my veg girls now.. I damn near get the electric hedger out and cut them down a half a foot at a time.. as needed.. These girls are just for outside and clones. I like to start with a nice bush come end of May. Last week of may is when I plant.. I'm babbling sorry.. Keepem Green
 
Norcaliwood said:
I have to sthrow out my 2 cents,, you can top clones.. You just have to pick the right spot to top and it will split. And the tip isn't it. You top down where you have set of leaves as close together as you can and then you prune it and two new branches will grow.. I guess it really isn't considered topping,, more a prune.. You might have to pinch 2 or 3 leaves before you get the right spot to split you branch. And it has to be a slightly larger plant to work with. But you can work with them and bush them out.
I see the stems on your UD's are totally different then on the variant I'm trying. I'm pretty sure I got one male,, bummer he was the stoutest one.. But these variants stems grow upward damn near straight up, and yours grow close to a 45 degree from the main stem.
I have to prune all my veg girls now.. I damn near get the electric hedger out and cut them down a half a foot at a time.. as needed.. These girls are just for outside and clones. I like to start with a nice bush come end of May. Last week of may is when I plant.. I'm babbling sorry.. Keepem Green
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Are you doing FIM cuts? Kinda sounds that way. Any chance you could edit a photo of one of your ladies and add a line right where you cut yours?

My general technique (well... that seems a strong word) is to clip below the last budsite on a branch to force the budsites to bush up and thicken... tho it's probably more common in my garden to just to let them grow naturally.

I like babbling. I find it to be a very sincere form of communications and a way to get feelings passed with printed words. Babble away.
 
Random shots from this morning's watering.


Except for the DDA in the back, these are all very young ladies recently moved to their final pots.
Clockwise starting at 12:00, DDA, UD3, UD4, UD1, BD, BD, and PC in the center.
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A nice little 4 pot of clones with 1g of Osmo+ mixed into the top 1/3. They might even have roots already.
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UD3
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And the outside girls... Unknown on the left, DDA (barely visible) on the right. Garlic on far right. Poor little DDA is just not thriving.
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Tead said:
Really.... I never knew that you'd get different reactions from topping a clone vs seed.
This totally matches my experiences tho... one of the reasons I don't really do much of it.
Plus, my growing habits don't lead to topping seedies. The first gen of any plant I usually grow naturally... just to get acquainted with it... then I grow it's clones from then on.
Gotta try topping a seedie.
Got some autos going too. Letting my first ever autos go natural, but I'll start topping them in the future.





You got me wondering...
I planted the OGK seeds around 1 Sep 2013. If I do the math with a 3 month grow cycle, I find myself at about 14 generations, but that actually seems really low.
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A 3 month grow cycle - if that breaks down into 1 month veg and 2 months flower, and if you take your clones at the end of one month of veg, that is 44 generations :)


Norcaliwood said:
I have to sthrow out my 2 cents,, you can top clones.. You just have to pick the right spot to top and it will split. And the tip isn't it. You top down where you have set of leaves as close together as you can and then you prune it and two new branches will grow.. I guess it really isn't considered topping,, more a prune.. You might have to pinch 2 or 3 leaves before you get the right spot to split you branch. And it has to be a slightly larger plant to work with. But you can work with them and bush them out.
I see the stems on your UD's are totally different then on the variant I'm trying. I'm pretty sure I got one male,, bummer he was the stoutest one.. But these variants stems grow upward damn near straight up, and yours grow close to a 45 degree from the main stem.
I have to prune all my veg girls now.. I damn near get the electric hedger out and cut them down a half a foot at a time.. as needed.. These girls are just for outside and clones. I like to start with a nice bush come end of May. Last week of may is when I plant.. I'm babbling sorry.. Keepem Green
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So to be more precise, you can top a clone, but topping a mature plant with alternate branching doesn't work the same as a young plant with opposite branching. Most clones are mature, and most mature plants have alternate branching.

(Someone (Conradino?) recently reported a plant in full flower that is alternating at the top and opposite branching lower down - I think it was new growth on the lower branches that is still growing with opposite branching. )

Since Norcaliwood says it, and knows lots more about growing, I'll concede that one can make Y branching on a mature plant.
I find it much easier to bend down the top 6 inches of a branch to near horizontal and get 3 or 4 tine 'fork' branching.
 
Ok so I think you have OG pheno here. I mean it should be very different from Boom cause she's actually stretchy, but not very branchy and wide. She looks more like Aurora Ultra the mother. Buds are long and stringy, but not very hard and she has very little leaf. Branches are rather short and spare. High is a strong mixture of both worlds more like classic OG and confusing at times.

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Ah and if you look just below the top cola there's this bottleneck thing that almost all phenos do :smokin2:

:thumb::surf::smokin2:
 
Alllllll righty. Seems like it's been too long for words around this place.
I've been burnin down some UD lately and honestly, it seems to make me too damn stoned to sit down and write. Man... ifff'n ya wanna shut yur brain down for a touch... try some UD. As an all day/every day smoker, it's been poundin me. I've been compensating by dropping my bowl size and skipping the '2 scoops' of powder on top. Grower problems.

Radogast said:
A 3 month grow cycle - if that breaks down into 1 month veg and 2 months flower, and if you take your clones at the end of one month of veg, that is 44 generations :)
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I got to pondering the math a bit more.
~3.5yrs. 42 months.
The OGKs have a really long rooting period. It takes like 3 or 4 weeks. So, a month to clone. Maybe another month to grow. So that leaves me at 2 months. Both those numbers are high... but that adjustment might be my 'lazy grower' factor.
So that leaves me around 21 generations. I feel much better about that number than my original 14. The original estimate seemed way low, but then, your estimate seemed too aggressive for a lazy grower.



Radogast said:
(Someone (Conradino?) recently reported a plant in full flower that is alternating at the top and opposite branching lower down - I think it was new growth on the lower branches that is still growing with opposite branching. )
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It was me... over on Con's thread... funny.


Radogast said:
Since Norcaliwood says it, and knows lots more about growing, I'll concede that one can make Y branching on a mature plant.
I find it much easier to bend down the top 6 inches of a branch to near horizontal and get 3 or 4 tine 'fork' branching.
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I gotta start bending up my UDs. They might do some interesting things when sculpted in various ways. I kinda wanna leave the main spike in place and spread out the secondary level.
So many things to play with! My garden's like a damn toy store with new things available to try whenever I want. Once the 2L flow settles fully into place I'll start dancing on the waves some in my little sea of green.


conradino23 said:
Ok so I think you have OG pheno here. I mean it should be very different from Boom cause she's actually stretchy, but not very branchy and wide. She looks more like Aurora Ultra the mother. Buds are long and stringy, but not very hard and she has very little leaf. Branches are rather short and spare. High is a strong mixture of both worlds more like classic OG and confusing at times.
Ah and if you look just below the top cola there's this bottleneck thing that almost all phenos do
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You seem to have a knack for calling them.
This pheno is really light on fan leaves and most of them yellowed very early on leading to much self pruning.
The UD buds have been super dense... even more so now with the added light. Not huge, but really heavy.
The notch in the top cola... funny you mentioned it. I've been watching just that issue and wondering about it. I kind of see it as a transition area between the spike and the 2nd level.
 
Yep OG phenos will also show some early potassium/nitrogen deficiencies... well you can't jump the gun I guess.
 
Radogast said:
Kind of embarassing when you quote 3 stupid things I posted in one post :blushsmile:
Almost enough to make me clean up my act :rofl:
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I call them 'insightful' and 'thought provoking'... but you're free to land wherever you wish on the issue. :smokin2:


conradino23 said:
Yep OG phenos will also show some early potassium/nitrogen deficiencies... well you can't jump the gun I guess.
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I suspect that's one of the contributing factors to the self-pruning. I could adjust with some liquid nutes in the water I feed it, but the lazy osmo+ grower that I am just watches it go.

I thought this was a UD1, but the growth tells me it was from seed. Dammit. Probably bumped the plant over and mixed the label. Double dammit. It's gotta be UD4.
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The gardens at this morning's watering.
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