SweetSue's Cannabis Oil Study Hall

Back from a stretching flexing and hydration break....

When I started my medical cannabis treatment program back in Sept 2016, my first reaction was 'Holy hell, there is no medical in medical cannabis". In Canada the medical document you need to buy from a Licensed Producer (the prescription basically) is based on grams per day of flowers (bud).

I wanted to know how much THC and the then new to me CBD to take, and how often. When asking that question All you get back is crickets chirping.

There is a too long list of strains with broad ranges of THC:CBD percentages. So which one should I take? More crickets.

There are essentially 4 plant types. Sativa - sativa dominant hybrid - indica dominant hybrid - indica. Which one should I take? More crickets.

There are several ways to take medical cannabis. Smoking - Vaporizing - swallowing it - under the tongue - dabs on the gums - suppositories. How should I take it? Crickets. How often? Crickets

Cannabis comes in several forms. Flowers - ground up flower in gel caps - tinctures - shatter - budder - wax - countless types of edibles - concentrates of different strength and mixtures of THC:CBD in different size syringes. Which one(s) should I use? Crickets.

Put all these factors together and I ended up with a big headache and sore ears.
 
Oldbear said:
Back from a stretching flexing and hydration break....

When I started my medical cannabis treatment program back in Sept 2016, my first reaction was 'Holy hell, there is no medical in medical cannabis". In Canada the medical document you need to buy from a Licensed Producer (the prescription basically) is based on grams per day of flowers (bud).

I wanted to know how much THC and the then new to me CBD to take, and how often. When asking that question All you get back is crickets chirping.

There is a too long list of strains with broad ranges of THC:CBD percentages. So which one should I take? More crickets.

There are essentially 4 plant types. Sativa - sativa dominant hybrid - indica dominant hybrid - indica. Which one should I take? More crickets.

There are several ways to take medical cannabis. Smoking - Vaporizing - swallowing it - under the tongue - dabs on the gums - suppositories. How should I take it? Crickets. How often? Crickets

Cannabis comes in several forms. Flowers - ground up flower in gel caps - tinctures - shatter - budder - wax - countless types of edibles - concentrates of different strength and mixtures of THC:CBD in different size syringes. Which one(s) should I use? Crickets.

Put all these factors together and I ended up with a big headache and sore ears.
Click to expand...

Which is how we came to have this room open Oldbear. The lack of support for dosing and administration was unacceptable to me, and something had to be done about it. Even in legal states cannabis is still viewed in the medical community at large as simply a way to get high. The level of educational avoidance one gets from the conventional medical community when you attempt to approach the subject of cannabinoid therapies is, to be honest, chilling.

If what we're forced to do is work it out in the trenches I wanted a comfortable virtual room where we could put our collective heads together and help each other get through the forest of confusion.

Properly administering cannabis for pain relief, in particular that delight they refer to as "intractable pain", will likely be our greatest challenge. It used to scare me, but now I know that this many dedicated souls seeking solutions are bound to stumble onto a few that will offer relief to those seeking it.
 
Oldbear said:
This is good. My motivation here is to try and improve that imperfect system. I'm seeking an improvement in the precision of a medical dose for a serious condition. If we get that wrong people will die, especially if they forego traditional treatment protocols (with all their flaws).

Hopefully fellow Study Hall members will work with me and each other to improve that precision. My math and science brain, and a desire to help others with issues far more serious than mine, requires it.

To scope down the complexity may I suggest we deal only with Bio Bomb therapy? If we can improve that, it is applicable to all other forms of taking cannabis as a medicine.

The simpler elements of the baseline BioBomb therapy Beta version. (all this is not new, just a compilation of what has been posted on here many times.)

A quantity of gel caps size 000 (Is this the correct one - could be 00E or 00). Each one contains 1.3 ml. Empty Capsule Size Chart

A volume of edible oil. Coconut if treating a liver problem. Olive, grapeseed, hemp, and others all readily available.

A volume of liquid sunflower lecithin

Common mixtures of carrier oils(recommended ratio of 4:1 edible oil to sunflower lecithin) to CCO
20:1 = (16:4):1
10:1 = (8:2):1
5:1 = (4:2):1

Next comes the tricky part.....
Click to expand...

I'm with you on this goal to firm up the protocol for the BioBombs. We've come a long way with the formulations, and I wanted us to use them for a while to see if this was working. I believe the time has come to write it up and possibly start a thread on that alone. As you mention, this protocol can become the basic approach for almost every condition you'll come across.

I don't consider that if we get it wrong people will die. People will die regardless, it's the cycle of life. In my mind, if one follows the plan to start low and titrate slowly to the optimal therapeutic dose the chances of recovering homeostasis are vastly improved, but here are no guarantees in life other than someday you will die. Embrace every day with childlike joy and take steps you're inspired to for improving your quality of life. Create the internal atmosphere of joyful expectation that you not only can heal but that you are healing, and watch what your body is capable of.

I used to call it positive thinking. Now I consider it more like guiding the ECS to healing through your expectation.
 
Sue I dont have the words to properly describe how grateful I was/am to find this place, the people here, and the wealth of useful information available here.

When you look at all these variables, you get an infinite combination of possible treatment methods and doses. So I hit a wall of uncertainty and doubt but what was clear is that the onus was on me to figure it out.

At the time, I was spending time in the grow journals on 420Mag and other sites. The first step in figuring it out was to click that Medical Marijuana button at the top of this page and read, read, read. My brain exploded with happiness like July 4 fireworks when I found other people in different stages of the same journey, people full of kindness willing to share what they knew, people motivated to research and experiment with all aspects of medical cannabis therapy and share the outcomes, people willing to advance the cause of Healing with Cannabis one tiny step at a time. I knew I had found a very good place to be and there was great comfort in that.

I hope these last few posts are not coming across as preachy, or negative, or critical. My motive is nothing other than to, like many others have and still are, share my journey, share my results, share my willingness to continue to research and help the cause in any small way I can.

I started my MMJ Healing Journal to document what I was and still am going through. If it helps someone else in some way that is delightful. I encourage others to do one too - just like grow journals. I know I would read them.

So thats me there, in the study hall, with my hand up volunteering to help with the Bio Bomb protocol. I think its of high importance given that it is the recommended method for the most serious of medical issues.

Must stop now ... but Ill be back.






SweetSue said:
Which is how we came to have this room open Oldbear. The lack of support for dosing and administration was unacceptable to me, and something had to be done about it. Even in legal states cannabis is still viewed in the medical community at large as simply a way to get high. The level of educational avoidance one gets from the conventional medical community when you attempt to approach the subject of cannabinoid therapies is, to be honest, chilling.

If what we're forced to do is work it out in the trenches I wanted a comfortable virtual room where we could put our collective heads together and help each other get through the forest of confusion.

Properly administering cannabis for pain relief, in particular that delight they refer to as "intractable pain", will likely be our greatest challenge. It used to scare me, but now I know that this many dedicated souls seeking solutions are bound to stumble onto a few that will offer relief to those seeking it.
Click to expand...
 
Oldbear said:
Sue I dont have the words to properly describe how grateful I was/am to find this place, the people here, and the wealth of useful information available here.

When you look at all these variables, you get an infinite combination of possible treatment methods and doses. So I hit a wall of uncertainty and doubt but what was clear is that the onus was on me to figure it out.

At the time, I was spending time in the grow journals on 420Mag and other sites. The first step in figuring it out was to click that Medical Marijuana button at the top of this page and read, read, read. My brain exploded with happiness like July 4 fireworks when I found other people in different stages of the same journey, people full of kindness willing to share what they knew, people motivated to research and experiment with all aspects of medical cannabis therapy and share the outcomes, people willing to advance the cause of Healing with Cannabis one tiny step at a time. I knew I had found a very good place to be and there was great comfort in that.

I hope these last few posts are not coming across as preachy, or negative, or critical. My motive is nothing other than to, like many others have and still are, share my journey, share my results, share my willingness to continue to research and help the cause in any small way I can.

I started my MMJ Healing Journal to document what I was and still am going through. If it helps someone else in some way that is delightful. I encourage others to do one too - just like grow journals. I know I would read them.

So thats me there, in the study hall, with my hand up volunteering to help with the Bio Bomb protocol. I think its of high importance given that it is the recommended method for the most serious of medical issues.

Must stop now ... but Ill be back.
Click to expand...

What I read in those previous posts was a shared desire to pull together a concise write up of the BioBomb protocol. No preachiness at all. :hugs:

We have all of the particulars worked out, or at least I'm fairly certain we have. The only element lacking is a proven method of making suppositories with coco butter using this formulation. Cajun claimed to have adapted his recipe for suppositories, but we were never able to get the precise measurements or process from him and those who tried it based on the recipe we started with weren't happy with the results.

Suppositories themselves require materials I have yet to acquire. Hmmm..... I could at least pull together a materials and supply list and that might make it more likely to be included in the next order to the rain forest. How expensive can that really be?
 
Just a small point for clarity, OB, I use 00 caps... which when full hold 1 cc.,,, WAIT! Nonono!

Old bear, I looked at your chart and discovered that 00 caps hold .90 grams, or .9 cc's.

THAT'S why I end up with extra caps...

Old Bear, I applaud and support your efforts to bring clarity to the issue of Bio Bombs.
 
Some disturbing news... the apartment where I live is going to block our balconies all summer, for renovation. They are also replacing all our windows. I cannot have workmen in the apartment with a grow box running.

So, we have decided to put construction of the grow box on hold.. It's just not safe. We are considering a move.

So, I am going to be concentrating my upcoming efforts in finding reliable, pure Concentrated Cannabis Oil in larger quantities, and hopefully at a better price.

I did get some literature for possibles at a recent Cannabiz show I attended, and I'll be researching that. I'll let you all know what I discover.

Meanwhile, I'm packing away the stuff I bought for the grow box.. :thedoubletake: :straightface: :whoa:
 
A cursory look around led me to a site proposing the use of pacifiers or baby bottle nipples (you have to plug the holes on these) set in an ice cube tray for stability as the forms for making suppositories. I have one gram of CCO left. I can pick up coco butter at the store, grab some pacifiers while I'm there, and at the very least make a partial batch to see how the new formulations using much less carrier oil and lecithin will work.

Sounds like a fun project for a Thursday into Friday. :cheesygrinsmiley:
 
SweetSue said:
A cursory look around led me to a site proposing the use of pacifiers or baby bottle nipples (you have to plug the holes on these) set in an ice cube tray for stability as the forms for making suppositories. I have one gram of CCO left. I can pick up coco butter at the store, grab some pacifiers while I'm there, and at the very least make a partial batch to see how the new formulations using much less carrier oil and lecithin will work.

Sounds like a fun project for a Thursday into Friday. :cheesygrinsmiley:
Click to expand...

Sue, my wife's Bio Bombs are standard vegetable based caps which dissolve, once inserted, within a few minutes.
 
Can you mix 2 different strains with eachother to make oil out of it? Because I want to mix a high THC strain with a high CBD strain and it will probably work without any problems but I'm asking just in case.
 
rikvasen said:
Can you mix 2 different strains with eachother to make oil out of it? Because I want to mix a high THC strain with a high CBD strain and it will probably work without any problems but I'm asking just in case.
Click to expand...

This is the recommended way to go about it rik. Mixing strains will broaden the ratio potentials and introduce a more varied terpene and cannabinoid profile. I've read of a dispensary that mixes up to ten strains for their oil.

panacea mixes his. He explained that to us once.

Any particular strains in mind?
 
SweetSue said:
This is the recommended way to go about it rik. Mixing strains will broaden the ratio potentials and introduce a more varied terpene and cannabinoid profile. I've read of a dispensary that mixes up to ten strains for their oil.

panacea mixes his. He explained that to us once.

Any particular strains in mind?
Click to expand...
Well I had in mind to mix Industrial plant CBD which contains 15%CBD and 5%THC and White Widow or Aurora B with more than 23%THC. that would be a concentrate that cures the devil out of hell!
 
Danolo said:
Sue, my wife's Bio Bombs are standard vegetable based caps which dissolve, once inserted, within a few minutes.
Click to expand...

This is the way I use them too Danolo. I simply wanted to see if the recipe can be adapted to making regular suppositories.

That'll have to wait anyway. No access to coco butter in my neighborhood. I'll have to order online.
 
Oldbear said:
This is good. My motivation here is to try and improve that imperfect system. I'm seeking an improvement in the precision of a medical dose for a serious condition.

Hopefully fellow Study Hall members will work with me and each other to improve that precision. My math and science brain, and a desire to help others with issues far more serious than mine, requires it.

To scope down the complexity may I suggest we deal only with Bio Bomb therapy? If we can improve that, it is applicable to all other forms of taking cannabis as a medicine.

The simpler elements of the baseline BioBomb therapy Beta version. (all this is not new, just a compilation of what has been posted on here many times.)

A quantity of gel caps size 000 (Is this the correct one - could be 00E or 00). Each one contains 1.3 ml. Empty Capsule Size Chart

A volume of edible oil. Coconut if treating a liver problem. Olive, grapeseed, hemp, and others all readily available.

A volume of liquid sunflower lecithin

Common mixtures of carrier oils(recommended ratio of 4:1 edible oil to sunflower lecithin) to CCO
20:1 = (16:4):1
10:1 = (8:2):1
5:1 = (4:2):1

Next comes the tricky part.....
Click to expand...

I quoted myself for clarity and continuity. What follows is the tricky part. I'm seeking an improved understanding - an aha moment - of the Concentrated Cannabis Oil element of the biobomb formulation.

The ratios all are based on 5 or 10 or 20 units of carrier oil (edible oil + sunflower lecithin) mixed with 1 unit of CCO

Note: just saw the typo in the 5:1 formula above it should read (4:1):1 and not (4:2):1 oops

So just what exactly is CCO? Where do you get it or how do you make it? What exactly is in it?

I think a good place to start is here: NOLIVELINKWhat Are Cannabis Oil, Shatter, and Wax Extracts? | Leafly

If I follow this CCO is 1 form of a cannabis extract.

"an oil that concentrates the plant's chemical compounds like THC and CBD"

Suggestion: use of the term Cannabis Extract (CE) will help me understand better because historically with Cannabis solvent extraction methods it was/is a 2 stage process.

You extract the plants chemical compounds with a solvent and then evaporate the solvent leaving a very concentrated, sticky, oily substance. I think this is what people call CCO. When done this way, its a Cannabis Extract in its purest and strongest form (strength and content will vary by strain(s) and what plant material is used to make it - more on that later)

Some people will smoke or vape this, or DAB it on their gums.

Question: does the term Pure Cannabis Extract (PCE) help or complicate? 1 unit of PCE may be stronger than 1 unit of a CCO depending on how its made.

A second stage of processing is to melt (dissolve, infuse) the PCE into something else to make it easier to take, easier to work with, and to manage the THC and/or CBD content to adjust the strength of it based on dose requirements.

There are many extraction methods but all involve creating a solution of cannabis compounds in something else. An olive oil extraction methodology for example gets me a Cannabis Extract, it is Concentrated Cannabis Oil but it is not a Pure Cannabis Extract. The big difference is that the solvent is not removed. The second step in this case is to mix in the liquid sunflower lecithin.

Cannabis Extraction using Butter, any edible oil, alcohol all available to the home chemist.

Here is where Ive been lost in the woods. My assumption was that bio bomb formulas, and their effectiveness, are based on the use of a PCE.

Therefore I needed to know what was in that, and second, I needed a formula to calculate how to manipulate the recipe based on what I had to achieve an equivalent strength. Ergo my questions about what it is, whats in it and how do I get it.

The aha moment for me has occurred - I don't need to do that (which is what sweetsue has been saying to me but I did not understand). Here's why:

The greatest single variable of many variables in Healing with Cannabis is how the person reacts to it. Short term and long term. Earlier than me explorers have kindly documented their methods and results. Even if I could duplicate exactly their recipe and ingredients my reaction is likely different.

I think what is important is to know what is in what you have. What is essential is to keep track of your reaction to it so you can make adjustments as needed.

...... more to come
 
Appreciate all assistance. This is my first rodeo :)

Danolo I'm pretty sure that 0.10 gram per capsule is for the clean up crew. :party:




Danolo said:
Just a small point for clarity, OB, I use 00 caps... which when full hold 1 cc.,,, WAIT! Nonono!

Old bear, I looked at your chart and discovered that 00 caps hold .90 grams, or .9 cc's.

THAT'S why I end up with extra caps...

Old Bear, I applaud and support your efforts to bring clarity to the issue of Bio Bombs.
Click to expand...
 
Oldbear said:
Appreciate all assistance. This is my first rodeo :)

Danolo I'm pretty sure that 0.10 gram per capsule is for the clean up crew. :party:
Click to expand...

I heartily concur. :cheesygrinsmiley:
 
Hey Sue, eager to go back through and learn what I have to do to follow your very latest protocol. This was the first thread on my long list of catching up. Miss you.
 
Some questions for colleagues:

1) What is the generally accepted percentage of efficiency of extracting cannabis compounds from buds? Is 80% a good number? Does is change significantly based on the extraction method?

If true, that means that 20% is left over and I dont want to be throwing that out. Even if its 10% I want to use it - for baking or something.

2) Is there a standard recommended size of gel cap? I'm thinking size 000 might be best given ease of access to supply, plus you can put 1 ml liquid in there without it needing to be full which should be easier and less messy.

3) i read on here somewhere that the depth of insertion of a rectal suppository makes a difference in how it is absorbed, and that changes the reaction in the body. If true it needs to be explained in the protocol. Is this correct: shallow gets absorbed directly into the blood stream and bypasses the liver. Deep gets absorbed in digestive track and goes through the liver. What about vaginal?

4) Is injection of the liquid using a syringe of some sort just as effective a treatment method?

5) We have all seen tampon commercials where the absorbing material is inserted by pushing it through a tube using a rigid pusher. Has anyone come across a similar tool for gel cap insertion?
 
ShiggityFlip said:
Hey Sue, eager to go back through and learn what I have to do to follow your very latest protocol. This was the first thread on my long list of catching up. Miss you.
Click to expand...

OMG!!!! I can't believe I missed you walking through the door!! Welcome back Shiggity.

:hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:

Damn, I've missed you. Took my name out of the running for MOTM, so you stand a chance now of winning the big one. :laughtwo: You were the first one I thought of when I did that.

So glad you're back. There's been much excitement since you wandered off. Now I just need Stage to come back. :battingeyelashes: :Love:
 
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