Sqwheels' Perpetual 2L Hempy + Moms

Hey Mr. K,

So that's what they look like after maturing? I found a couple immature pods a long time ago, and picked them off...I kinda stopped looking around day 30 or so, I hadn't found any more...then forgot about it. I kinda suspected it might be the case with a hermie seed to start with. Wonder what that will do to the Wonder Woman plants...dammit, I didn't want meds with a bunch of seeds in it.

Wonder Woman is a completely femmed plant... Genetically speaking, I guess...I'm just learning about this subject so I could be wrong. Both plants she came from were female. Have to go read Frats post to me, stats by the breeder. And here I went and pollinated her. Will those seeds be unstable as well? Because they came from a hermied White Widow. Genetics is still a little confusing, still have much to read about it.

I should cut her (white widow) down now maybe, she's just about ready, does it really matter at this late stage? She's @ day 60 12/12, her trics are about 80/20 cloudy/amber, I gave her RO/tap/molasses today, and was going to give only RO/tap from here on out, and harvest in about a week.

Same for the Original Wonder Woman...she's day 60 12/12, her trics are so thick you can't hardly see past them to the leaf, about the same 80/20, with a lot of the smaller ones very amber.

The Wonder Woman clones are @ 52 days 12/12, and looking oh so :yummy:

I guess where I'm headed with this is...would it be better to harvest white widow to keep her from doing any more damage? or is the damage already done?

Does MJ have an optimum receptability time frame regarding pollination? Did that make sense? :tokin:


Thoughts ... Comments?
 
sqwheels said:
Hey Mr. K,

So that's what they look like after maturing? I found a couple immature pods a long time ago, and picked them off...I kinda stopped looking around day 30 or so, I hadn't found any more...then forgot about it. I kinda suspected it might be the case with a hermie seed to start with. Wonder what that will do to the Wonder Woman plants...dammit, I didn't want meds with a bunch of seeds in it.

Wonder Woman is a completely femmed plant... Genetically speaking, I guess...I'm just learning about this subject so I could be wrong. Both plants she came from were female. Have to go read Frats post to me, stats by the breeder. And here I went and pollinated her. Will those seeds be unstable as well? Because they came from a hermied White Widow. Genetics is still a little confusing, still have much to read about it.

I should cut her (white widow) down now maybe, she's just about ready, does it really matter at this late stage? She's @ day 60 12/12, her trics are about 80/20 cloudy/amber, I gave her RO/tap/molasses today, and was going to give only RO/tap from here on out, and harvest in about a week.

Same for the Original Wonder Woman...she's day 60 12/12, her trics are so thick you can't hardly see past them to the leaf, about the same 80/20, with a lot of the smaller ones very amber.

The Wonder Woman clones are @ 52 days 12/12, and looking oh so :yummy:

I guess where I'm headed with this is...would it be better to harvest white widow to keep her from doing any more damage? or is the damage already done?

Does MJ have an optimum receptability time frame regarding pollination? Did that make sense? :tokin:


Thoughts ... Comments?
Click to expand...


Sqwheels,

At this point, I'd just pick of any of the nanners daily, and harvest when she's ready.

Assuming the White Widow pollenated itself, most likely the resulting seeds would be hermie, since you would have crossed two hermies together. But, there would be less of a chance that any of the other plants that got pollenated would produce hermie seeds since they'd be a hermie crossed with a non-hermie.

And, if the White Widow wasn't a "natural" hermie, but was forced to hermie because of disrupted light (or other stress), then the seeds would have almost NO chance of being hermys if crossed with a non-hermy female, and in fact, you'd get feminized seeds since both parents are natural females.

I hope that helps cuz' we're getting close to the extent of my knowledge on breeding, too! :)
 
When the pollen drops, it will still take time to develop seeds. I would just let them finish out.
And start looking for another genetic, ditch the White Widow.....
 
Mr. Krip said:
Sqwheels,

At this point, I'd just pick of any of the nanners daily, and harvest when she's ready.

Assuming the White Widow pollenated itself, most likely the resulting seeds would be hermie, since you would have crossed two hermies together. But, there would be less of a chance that any of the other plants that got pollenated would produce hermie seeds since they'd be a hermie crossed with a non-hermie.

And, if the White Widow wasn't a "natural" hermie, but was forced to hermie because of disrupted light (or other stress), then the seeds would have almost NO chance of being hermys if crossed with a non-hermy female, and in fact, you'd get feminized seeds since both parents are natural females.

I hope that helps cuz' we're getting close to the extent of my knowledge on breeding, too! :)
Click to expand...


Hi Mr.K,
I had to give this some time to shink in, and still I'm :scratchinghead: not quite sure I've got it right.

Here's what I do know...the seeds (4, 3 of which showed male flowers early into 12/12, and I killed them) I planted came from one of two White Widows I got from the local dispensory (I'm sure they were female clones), which I grew this summer, and they both hermied, I'm 95% sure it was because of excessive heat in the grow room, this would be what you meant by "forced" to hermie? Anyway I harvested both those hermies and they each had some seeds, which I saved but didn't separate or label in any way. info I got from people here told me that, if WWa pollinated herself, most likely her seeds would be hermie or at least unstable, but if WWa pollinated WWb then the resulting seeds would probably be good or most likely would be stable.

I knew I was taking a chance when planting these seeds...but here's what I'm not sure about...you said if WW pollinated herself..are you talking about this 1 WW I have now? When 1 plant is hermie and makes nanners and then pollinates itself you still call it a cross?

And if WW pollinates the Wonder Woman and I get seeds on the Wonder Woman, these would likely be femmed seeds. I don't get it. If the pollen comes from a genetically unstable female plant, but pollinates a genetically stable all female, that produces femmed seeds???

Really sorry if I'm being thick/dense...it's friday and I've had a beer and a few tokes. Maybe I should wait until tomorrow to try to understand all this.

And trust me, you know waayyy more than I do, so anything you can tell me helps...thanks so much :Namaste:
 
blackgold said:
congratulations on your pregnancy. Krip is right those are bananas, and I think they look ripe. You will probably get a few seeds but not much. You will have a few nana's inside the bud, so a couple of hermied seed and that's about it. Nice work on the grow.:Namaste:
Click to expand...

Hi BG and :welcome: to my journal and :420: Always nice to see new members...hope you're enjoying the community

Thanks, I'd rather do without the congrats on "nanners"...it seems like I just can't get it right...:surrender: I've grown 3 times now and I just can't get one to go completely uneventful. :rofl: Now I've got nanners. :rofl:

Oh well, grow and know...:thanks: for the compliment
 
OG13 said:
When the pollen drops, it will still take time to develop seeds. I would just let them finish out.
And start looking for another genetic, ditch the White Widow.....
Click to expand...

Hi OG,

I'm pretty sure pollen has already been released in thereWow, if in ain't one thing it's another. Ya, ditch the Widow...my first grow was WW and Blue Cheese, both clones from the local dispensory...I didn't really like the BC...to me it smelled bad, like moldy cheese, and tasted like dirty sweat socks smell...I thought it was really bad. But the WW, I just fell in love with...nice dieselly fuel, skunk smell with smooth lung filling smoke that gave me just the right level of meds for spasm relief but not too much of the puddle feeling like couchlock. I was looking back over the calendar I kept for that grow earlier today...I only flowered those 2 plants for 6 weeks to the day. I didn't have a camera then, so I didn't journal it here, but they were huge plants, I got over 3oz dried, from WW and am just now finishing that up :( which quite upsets me because my 2nd grow didn't turn out as good, as you know.

But, on the up side...I took clones today from the Wonder Woman mom I've got and will be harvesting in a week or so...the trics are really turning now and I'll probably chop the Widow soon, just to get her out of that room. Hopefully will eliminate some of the potential for seeds. I hate seedy meds.

Thanks for following along and helping me so much, really appreciate all the advice.

:peace:
 
sqwheels said:
Hi Mr.K,
I had to give this some time to shink in, and still I'm :scratchinghead: not quite sure I've got it right.

Here's what I do know...the seeds (4, 3 of which showed male flowers early into 12/12, and I killed them) I planted came from one of two White Widows I got from the local dispensory (I'm sure they were female clones), which I grew this summer, and they both hermied, I'm 95% sure it was because of excessive heat in the grow room, this would be what you meant by "forced" to hermie? Anyway I harvested both those hermies and they each had some seeds, which I saved but didn't separate or label in any way. info I got from people here told me that, if WWa pollinated herself, most likely her seeds would be hermie or at least unstable, but if WWa pollinated WWb then the resulting seeds would probably be good or most likely would be stable.

I knew I was taking a chance when planting these seeds...but here's what I'm not sure about...you said if WW pollinated herself..are you talking about this 1 WW I have now? When 1 plant is hermie and makes nanners and then pollinates itself you still call it a cross?

And if WW pollinates the Wonder Woman and I get seeds on the Wonder Woman, these would likely be femmed seeds. I don't get it. If the pollen comes from a genetically unstable female plant, but pollinates a genetically stable all female, that produces femmed seeds???

Really sorry if I'm being thick/dense...it's friday and I've had a beer and a few tokes. Maybe I should wait until tomorrow to try to understand all this.

And trust me, you know waayyy more than I do, so anything you can tell me helps...thanks so much :Namaste:
Click to expand...

You're pretty close, let me see if I can re-state it another way that's maybe a little more clear than my last ramble :)...

Some seeds are genetically prone to hermy and will hermy very easily with little or no stress. I call these "natural hermies". But, with enough stress, ANY plant can be forced to hermie, although the genetics would not be prone to hermy.

So, if the plant is a "natural hermy" the seeds will carry the natural hermy trait. But, this can be minimized, or bread out entirely, by crossing it with plants that are NOT prone to hermy. I believe the hermy gene would be "recessive" and, if I remember genetics correctly, that would place the odds of a hermie at only 25% if crossed with a non-hermie parent. These odds would decrease with continual crosses with non-hermy plants.

Now, if you take a female plant and cause it to hermy, the plant shows male traits, but is genetically a female. So, if you cross it with another female, both parents are female and it would produce feminized seeds.

Finally, when a plant hermies and has both male and female parts, it can pollinate itself and produce seeds. Technically, I would agree that this isn't really a "cross" but I have heard it referred to as a "cross with itself". You can also cross a plant with itself by taking two clones from a female plant, force one of the clones to hermy, and cross it with the other clone. Since all clones share the same genetics as the mom, it's considered a cross with itself.

Genetics really aren't my strong suit, so I welcome any comments/corrections from anyone with more experience! :Namaste:
 
Mr. Krip said:
You're pretty close, let me see if I can re-state it another way that's maybe a little more clear than my last ramble :)...

.....

Now, if you take a female plant and cause it to hermy, the plant shows male traits, but is genetically a female. So, if you cross it with another female, both parents are female and it would produce feminized seeds.

Finally, when a plant hermies and has both male and female parts, it can pollinate itself and produce seeds. Technically, I would agree that this isn't really a "cross" but I have heard it referred to as a "cross with itself". You can also cross a plant with itself by taking two clones from a female plant, force one of the clones to hermy, and cross it with the other clone. Since all clones share the same genetics as the mom, it's considered a cross with itself.

Genetics really aren't my strong suit, so I welcome any comments/corrections from anyone with more experience! :Namaste:
Click to expand...

The first sentence is the rub.....Sqwheels had this exact situation, but grew out 3 males and 1 herm from the seeds. Doesn't make sense.

Second paragraph cross w/ self or 2 clones is also called "selfed" or S1. Also works w/ chemical induced nanners like Granny420 is doing in her journal. A "cross" done this way should be an identical plant, a clone, genetically identical....
 
Hi OG,

ya, I don't get it...if I understand it right the widow seeds I produced and then planted should have produced female plants, or mostly female.

Right?
 
sqwheels said:
Hi OG,

ya, I don't get it...if I understand it right the widow seeds I produced and then planted should have produced female plants, or mostly female.

Right?
Click to expand...

Exactly correct. I have a feeling the Widows you started with were really Herm to begin with (not a true female getting stressed to a herm condition) so all breeding bets are off (already have the extra chromosome). The herm genetic got passed along, which is what breeders are trying to avoid. Have you read any of Granny's journal on use of Colloidal Silver for making Fem seeds.....lots of discussion there, but can get pretty confusing w/ meds involved. None of this is for sure 100% until a successful breeder lets us in on how it is done commercially. Lots of rumors and heresay, but Granny's been trying to get it straight and doing LOTS of work to dial it in. Your results are one more piece of information for the cause. If we can get it figured out, seeds won't cost as much.
 
OG13 said:
Exactly correct. I have a feeling the Widows you started with were really Herm to begin with (not a true female getting stressed to a herm condition) so all breeding bets are off (already have the extra chromosome). The herm genetic got passed along, which is what breeders are trying to avoid. Have you read any of Granny's journal on use of Colloidal Silver for making Fem seeds.....lots of discussion there, but can get pretty confusing w/ meds involved. None of this is for sure 100% until a successful breeder lets us in on how it is done commercially. Lots of rumors and heresay, but Granny's been trying to get it straight and doing LOTS of work to dial it in. Your results are one more piece of information for the cause. If we can get it figured out, seeds won't cost as much.
Click to expand...

I agree! My guess is that the WW started as a male and the gibberilic acid (or, whatever process they used to feminize it as a seed) didn't fully get rid of the male genetics.
 
Hi Sqwheels :Love:

OG13 and Mr. Krip filled you in on the causes of what's happing and has happened.
Now here I come with my two cents. If they are 80% cloudy and 20% amber.
I would harvest they them. They are in my ball park for harvest. Just a suggestion. :circle-of-love:
 
Hi All,

Thanks OG, Mr.K, and OMM for all the .02 cents. Love the input.

Ok, here's where I stand this AM. On Friday I pulled the Widow out of my flower room and left her sitting in the dark until last night. I started pulling the little sugar leaves to make it easier to clean after hanging. That's when I started counting...there are A LOT of those nanners. 50 maybe more little yellow clusters, mostly in twos but some have more. Now these things look different than the pollen pods I got on the last Widows that hermied. And when I harvested those plants there weren't any nanners. And the nanners don't have any powder/pollen like the little pods had, I could actually see it.
I don't get it.

I don't think I missed 50 or more little pollen pods and those matured into these little nanner things. I don't know where they came from.

Anyway, back to my original train of thought...last night while sleeping I had a horrible dream/premonition...everytime I touch that plant I'm spreading pollen!!! Should I just trash it? And I think it was Mr.K who said collect it and freeze it...Do I want pollen from a plant that may have hermie genes? From the sounds of it...No.

OG, I have not read Granny's journals...I can hardly keep up with the ones I have...and I didn't have any intentions of breeding...I'm still working on the,,,,water/nutes/defs and strains stuff.

What's that old saying? We make plans...God laughs :rofl:

:circle-of-love: :thanks:
 
I agree 420%! You do NOT want to breed a plant prone to hermy! When I suggested keeping the pollen, I was under the impression that it hermied from stress.
 
Mr.K,

I was under that impression too. But after further research and input from y'all, it's probably like OG said. That original White Widow was a hermied just waiting to happen.

So, I'll do just what y'all said, get rid of it. But I can still smoke it, right? What about that pollen? I've trimmed and paper bagged that Widow already, she's drying nicely. It would be a shame to trash it.

Thanks again all, for the help and advice.
 
sqwheels said:
Mr.K,

I was under that impression too. But after further research and input from y'all, it's probably like OG said. That original White Widow was a hermied just waiting to happen.

So, I'll do just what y'all said, get rid of it. But I can still smoke it, right? What about that pollen? I've trimmed and paper bagged that Widow already, she's drying nicely. It would be a shame to trash it.

Thanks again all, for the help and advice.
Click to expand...

Sure you can. Smoke it up. Then be sure to spray your entire grow room with water from a spray bottle and wipe everything down to kill any pollen that may be still in there. That stuff can last for months.

:thumb:
 
Hi Folks,

:sorry: it's late, but here it is...weekly update. Orig WW now at 66 days of 12/12 and the clones at 58 days of 12/12

Group Shot...Only the Original Wonder Woman and her clones are left in here now
DSCN06812.JPG


a little closer look
RSCN0692.JPG


RSCN0693.JPG

Sorry the lighting is so bad on these, it's just too much trouble to pull them out to get better pics, I have to be real careful now because they are pretty top heavy, consequently I move them as little as possible

Here's a few of the tops & buds
Orig WW tops
DSCN06882.JPG


DSCN06861.JPG


DSCN06853.JPG


and a couple of the clones
Main cola of WW clone far back right in group shot
DSCN06913.JPG


DSCN06874.JPG


It's kind of hard to see but, I'm trying to show y'all how many buds there are at the bottom. I'm sure they would not have gotten this big if I had not defoliated
DSCN06894.JPG

this pic really doesn't do it justice

It's really hard for me to magnify the trics on the plants so today I took a sample bud from each the Orig and a clone. Looking at these, you'd like the one on the left was the orig...nope, it's the clone. Notice the difference in the hairs...:hmmmm:
DSCN06972.JPG


Clone
DSCN07033.JPG


RSCN0706.JPG


Orig
DSCN07042.JPG


RSCN0705.JPG


Observations...the original WW has far fewer amber trics than her clones, I can hardly believe this, because they are 8 days behind in 12/12. But I've looked hard at these, and it's a fact. The clone bud shows twice as many ambers. And the buds themselves look different...the original WW's hairs are almost gone compared to her clones. Orig WW looks like the pollinated flower in Granny's journal, and the clone doesn't.

I asked before, and I've tried to find some specifics on this but haven't so far...What is the optimum pollinating time in the life cycle of MJ? I wonder if Orig WW got pollinated and the clones didn't, because of timing. Does that make sense? Also, the color of the leaves are very different...Orig WW is a lighter green, and the clone is deep forest green.

I don't know if I can contribute these differences to those 8 days difference or not.

Original WW got her last dose of nutes on 11-29 and Molasses on the 1st, since then only RO/tap, the clones got 734ppm today...I think I'll give them only RO/tap for a couple days a then chop all of them.

Opinions needed, and welcome...What do you think?

:green_heart:

Happy Growing Everybody
 
Hi Sqwheels!

First of all, sorry I've been so absent lately, things have been hectic and I haven't been able to spend as much time on the forums lately.

I agree completely with 420fied. Ditch any seeds or pollen from the suspect plant, clean the grow room good (plain water alone is sufficient to kill the pollen, but be thorough).

One other thought I'll contribute to what others have stated. Take this with a grain of salt, because I have zero breeding experience. Having said that, I read an article (I believe it was by DJ Short but not 100% on that) that shed some light on crossing a hermie with a feminized seed vs. a regular female (not induced to be female). The gist of it was:

Feminized seeds are already "doubled down" with the recessive hermie trait. A stress-hermied female, crossed with a regular female (non-feminized seed) is a pretty safe bet typically. A stress hermied female crossed with a "feminized-seed" bred female is a less safe bet, because there is a greater chance the hermie trait is passed along due to the original process used to create the feminized seed. Does that make sense - not sure if I worded that clearly...

My takeaway, was that if you want to intentionally stress a plant to create a hermie then use that pollen on other females for feminized seeds, you would NOT want to apply the pollen to females from feminized seeds. You would have much better success in preventing future hermie genetics by applying the stressed hermie pollen to females from regular seeds. Not sure if this applies to your situation because I don't really know the history of the genetics involved, but thought I'd add this to the discussion.

Now, practically speaking, that's all academic to your situation. Take 420fied's advice, and don't use any more pollen or pass on the genetics any further with the hermies you've had. You need a clean genetic slate moving forward, because regardless of what happened, the result is hermie plants.

Lastly, looks like you have some really great bud there, it will all smoke/vape nicely I'm sure, and you were right to harvest I think. I'd probably pick out the little nanners when you trim but it probably isn't necessary.

Congrats on some truly beautiful buds! You've done a nice job and have learned a lot about 2 liter growing that will make your next grow even better. You've done well - enjoy the fruits of your labor!! :)
 
Back
Top Bottom