SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco Results In A Soil Based Medium

[ReservoirDog]

Ha! Thank You, Shed!... Actually, that's a knee-high..I keep a box of them in the garage- I use them for lint filters on the washing machine drain hose-keeps the lint from plugging up the"iffy" pipes...

Thanks, Stunger! That AHa took to it like a duck to water.. less than 24 hours after transplant, she was praying to the light..


Thanks, Bode -I'll do that!

I did! all her drinking (except the first one) was accomplished through 2 pieces of kite string- it was a little solo cup-in-a- solo cup type SIP...she had a substantial bunch o' roots out the bottom- had to cut the bottom off the cup to get her out...I'll tape that bottom back on, so it comes off easier next time..

OMG someone finally listened to my constant carping about growing seedling SIPs. I predict that you will not experience the two week stall-out that many people are reporting after transplant to main SIP. Thank you for doing this, I started a few seedling SIPs for eventual transfer myself and posted on here in the hopes it will illustrate my point and save everyone from the two-week stall. I'm still using Carhooks @Carcass and I love them. I managed to average over 50 tops per plant on my last four plants by combining carhooks and constant weight training. The plants never exceeded 20 inches high but were very prolific nonetheless. Thanks again mate!

 

[Carcass]

Looking forward to your observations as you go through your first SIP grow. They are kind of fun to grow with.

Thanks for the kind words, Azi-! I'll definitely post some updates as things progress... they're fun to grow in, but the results will (hopefully) be dead serious..

I managed to average over 50 tops per plant on my last four plants by combining carhooks and constant weight training.

Well done, RD! It just goes to show that a plant doesn't need to be tall to achieve some impressive bud density...

 

[Azimuth]

OMG someone finally listened to my constant carping about growing seedling SIPs. I predict that you will not experience the two week stall-out that many people are reporting after transplant to main SIP. Thank you for doing this, I started a few seedling SIPs for eventual transfer myself and posted on here in the hopes it will illustrate my point and save everyone from the two-week stall. I'm still using Carhooks @Carcass and I love them. I managed to average over 50 tops per plant on my last four plants by combining carhooks and constant weight training. The plants never exceeded 20 inches high but were very prolific nonetheless. Thanks again mate!

Lol. Yeah, I think we've come to the conclusion that the 2-3 week stall period is directly related to the plant having to transition its roots from the normal ones we see in a wet/dry cycle pot over to the pure feeder roots we get in these SIPs, and finding a way to produce them early on gets around much of that.

The wetter environment still does seem to slow them some initially as they try to figure that out so maybe @Emilya Green 's hypothesis that there is some sort of 'plant brain' at work right near the transition between stem and roots is a 'thing' since our environment of wetter but more O2, is more unusual than evolution prepares them for.

There are a number of growers using the solo cup sips/swicks to explore that early development phase. There are several alternatives, from your grow bags, to the solo cup version I posted on page two, to the swick idea of running a wick from a separate reservoir up through the bottom of a solo cup. All of these seem to result in nice, healthy starts.

Next I think we'll have to explore whether there is any advantage to starting in a small pot and transplanting vs starting in the final pot. In the wet/dry cycle there clearly is an advantage to building a root ball to establish healthy water seeking roots. But in a SIP?

One advantage I do see, at least for an organic grow, is the ability to provide fresh soil. My mix seems to run out of gas at about week 3-4 of flower when I veg them in the final pot so I'm going to try an up-pot for my next round. It will also give me an opportunity to establish the myco ahead of adding my Jadam extract nutes.

 

[Weffalo]

Very curious to see your experiments with smaller pots, what I've been wondering too. For now I'm planning to just use final container for germ'd seeds but your results may persuade me to change my plans for the next attempt

 

[Azimuth]

Very curious to see your experiments with smaller pots, what I've been wondering too. For now I'm planning to just use final container for germ'd seeds but your results may persuade me to change my plans for the next attempt

I can say that the small pots work the same as the larger ones. In fact most of mine have been in the 9oz solos or the 1L take-out containers. It's only been fairly recently that I've used the "much larger" 2 gallon containers.

So, same principles are at work no matter the pot size.

 

[Weffalo]

I can say that the small pots work the same as the larger ones. In fact most of mine have been in the 9oz solos or the 1L take-out containers. It's only been fairly recently that I've used the "much larger" 2 gallon containers.

So, sa,e principles are at work no matter the pot size.

Yeah I get that, infact I'm planning to use 10 litre SIPs for the next grow so I can sample more phenos, however I guess 10 litre isn't classed as small I was more referencing your comment about testing whether smaller pot and transplant over starting in final, something I've been wondering as I had great results in the final container without transplanting

Next I think we'll have to explore whether there is any advantage to starting in a small pot and transplanting vs starting in the final pot. In the wet/dry cycle there clearly is an advantage to building a root ball to establish healthy water seeking roots. But in a SIP?

 

[Azimuth]

Yeah I get that, infact I'm planning to use 10 litre SIPs for the next grow so I can sample more phenos, however I guess 10 litre isn't classed as small I was more referencing your comment about testing whether smaller pot and transplant over starting in final, something I've been wondering as I had great results in the final container without transplanting

Ah, gotcha. My space is pretty small compared to most others so a 2G pot is a  huge upsize for me.

But you're right, 5 Gallons seems to be the standard size for most with some going upward from there. I do 14G (I think) storage containers for my outdoor veggie garden and those work great as well.

 

[Emilya Green]

I have transplanted some good 1 gallon rootballs that were developed using the wet/dry top watering method, into 7 gallon containers in a SIP situation. After 4 days of waiting for them to "convert" I noted that the soil was very dry in that container, from top to bottom... so I top watered. After a few days, they looked stressed again, so I again watered from the top, while waiting for the SIP to "kick in." After about a week, I noticed the rez's starting to be used, and then the plants lost the 3 day wet/dry cycle and are now staying vigorous just by the bottom watering alone. Since I use the top fed GeoFlora Nutrients, I do still top water once a week.

My point is, that these 5 plants did not stall. Other than the 2 days when the container dried out, they did not slow down. I have continued to train them, and they are continuing to grow, rather vigorously. I am not getting the infamous SIP stall after transplanting. All looks normal here.

I submit that the stall is gardner induced. The insistence of not watering from the top, to preserve the "moisture gradient" seems to be the error. Please keep your plants hydrated while they convert to the new system and see if you get similar results. The SIP stall does not seem to be necessary. Transplanting a good rootball and keeping that rootball watered as it transitions (just as in any transplant) seems to be the key.

 

[chinchillin]

Placed in a cup or bowls these can be lightly bottom watered to establish a moisture gradient from day one to ensure a plant's hydrotropic root development response immediately (this simply means that a plant chooses different root types and layouts based on the moisture level at various depths, just as it does in nature where moisture gradients are the norm).

Again sorry for making you repeat yourself but there is just one mental image I'm missing in order to fully see it all. I like the cloth bag idea but just having a hard time picturing the bottom feeding. So I see the mini air pots inside of a net pot. Then you put them in a bowl (rez?) and then have the entire bottom of the mini pot fully submerged for some time being? Or Is there a perlite or hydroton in the "rez" that the cloth bag sits on like a swick?

 

[Azimuth]

Cloth bags are set up differently than plastic pots. With the cloth bags there is air infiltration all around the container so the lower air chamber in the pot itself isn't necessary.

Simply set your bag on top of some sort of media that will wick water, but don't have the bag actually touching the water in the reservoir. The perlite will stay moist through the capillary action and the bag, and therefore roots, will absorb this moisture.

So, that could be the bag sitting on top of a bed of perlite where the water level is an inch or two below the perlite surface, or a vertical column of soil contained in a short section of drainage pipe where the bottom of the pipe sits in the reservoir but the top is that same inch or so above the full water mark of the reservoir.

That of course is the normal grow pots, but I see you're asking about ResDog's starter pots, so I'll let him answer that part.

 

[Kanno26]

Hello SIP friends. I would like to show you my experiment between a SIP bucket and a classic slatted planter. Both plants are in flower for 7 days and have 8 weeks of vegetables and here are photos for comparison.
Bubble Kush.

So it's just for comparison .

 

[Azimuth]

Hello SIP friends. I would like to show you my experiment between a SIP bucket and a classic slatted planter. Both plants are in flower for 7 days and have 8 weeks of vegetables and here are photos for comparison.
Bubble Kush.

So it's just for comparison .

Well, you say "for comparison" but there really is no comparison as the SIP plant seems in its own league. Well done, my man. Well done.

 

[chinchillin]

Cloth bags are set up differently than plastic pots. With the cloth bags there is air infiltration all around the container so the lower air chamber in the pot itself isn't necessary.

Simply set your bag on top of some sort of media that will wick water, but don't have the bag actually touching the water in the reservoir. The perlite will stay moist through the capillary action and the bag, and therefore roots, will absorb this moisture.

So, that could be the bag sitting on top of a bed of perlite where the water level is an inch or two below the perlite surface, or a vertical column of soil contained in a short section of drainage pipe where the bottom of the pipe sits in the reservoir but the top is that same inch or so above the full water mark of the reservoir.

That of course is the normal grow pots, but I see you're asking about ResDog's starter pots, so I'll let him answer that part.

Thanks for the answer all the same

 

[ReservoirDog]

mispost...erp.

 

[013]

quick question about wick foot.

Built a new sip bucket last nite with perlite as the wick, when I added the soil I did not pack it at all. Transplanted her but later began to second guess myself.

Was I suppose to pack soil where it joins the perlite wick foot?

 

[ReservoirDog]

I have transplanted some good 1 gallon rootballs that were developed using the wet/dry top watering method, into 7 gallon containers in a SIP situation. After 4 days of waiting for them to "convert" I noted that the soil was very dry in that container, from top to bottom... so I top watered. After a few days, they looked stressed again, so I again watered from the top, while waiting for the SIP to "kick in." After about a week, I noticed the rez's starting to be used, and then the plants lost the 3 day wet/dry cycle and are now staying vigorous just by the bottom watering alone. Since I use the top fed GeoFlora Nutrients, I do still top water once a week.

My point is, that these 5 plants did not stall. Other than the 2 days when the container dried out, they did not slow down. I have continued to train them, and they are continuing to grow, rather vigorously. I am not getting the infamous SIP stall after transplanting. All looks normal here.

I submit that the stall is gardner induced. The insistence of not watering from the top, to preserve the "moisture gradient" seems to be the error. Please keep your plants hydrated while they convert to the new system and see if you get similar results. The SIP stall does not seem to be necessary. Transplanting a good rootball and keeping that rootball watered as it transitions (just as in any transplant) seems to be the key.

 

[ReservoirDog]

quick question about wick foot.

Built a new sip bucket last nite with perlite as the wick, when I added the soil I did not pack it at all. Transplanted her but later began to second guess myself.

Was I suppose to pack soil where it joins the perlite wick foot?

It will settle fine. It's the foot we worry about because if it falls away from the packed planter matrix above wicking between the two will cease, or slow. Also, because the foot is always submerged it has highest likelihood of settling.

The other aspects which can lead to poor wicking (either too much or too little) include the use of too much ultra-fine particulate in planter, use of too compost or manures.

 

[ReservoirDog]

Again sorry for making you repeat yourself but there is just one mental image I'm missing in order to fully see it all. I like the cloth bag idea but just having a hard time picturing the bottom feeding. So I see the mini air pots inside of a net pot. Then you put them in a bowl (rez?) and then have the entire bottom of the mini pot fully submerged for some time being? Or Is there a perlite or hydroton in the "rez" that the cloth bag sits on like a swick?

Ignore the net pot, that's just scenery in the pic. Azimuth has the description correct. Using these baggies, filled with 40%perlite and soil. I then use a 2 inch section of plastic cylinder cut from a plastic bottle. O make sure either one edge is rough and uneven such that it would let water under it, or I just driff a few small holes around the bottom inch for water to get in. I lay this open at each end plastic cylinder down inside a cereal bowl, then I fill it with perlite. Fillied all the way to top and pressed on to make sure I cant fit any more. Then I place the baggy-planter atop the cylinder, pressing down so the planter sits firmly. Last step is to pour water into the bowl until water level is an inch below bottom of planter (giving you the air gap). Moisture enters the perlite and wicks up to the planter, then keeps wicking up the planter. I use a baggy that's 7-8 inches tall and fill the whole thing with gro matrix so that I can establish a discernable moisture gradient between top (dry) and bottom (field capacity+)

 

[013]

It will settle fine. It's the foot we worry about because if it falls away from the packed planter matrix above wicking between the two will cease, or slow. Also, because the foot is always submerged it has highest likelihood of settling.

The other aspects which can lead to poor wicking (either too much or too little) include the use of too much ultra-fine particulate in planter, use of too compost or manures.

fantastic, I won’t have to go digging

thanks ReservoirDog!

 

[ReservoirDog]

Ha! Thank You, Shed!... Actually, that's a knee-high..I keep a box of them in the garage- I use them for lint filters on the

I did! all her drinking (except the first one) was accomplished through 2 pieces of kite string- it was a little solo cup-in-a- solo cup type SIP...she had a substantial bunch o' roots out the bottom- had to cut the bottom off the cup to get her out...I'll tape that bottom back on, so it comes off easier next time..

I have to confess here to be asking forgiveness instead of permission @Carcass because I put this on my PC desktop and phone background right after you uploaded. I swear, Ill never commercialize it mate! Or maybe you'd prefer I just forwarded the profits when I do? We'll stay in touch.lol. Whatever you prefer.... Mate.... You're SIPs are exquisite and very obviously belong to the Growmiverse you've already created, high verisimilitude score there, very. I feel like I'm watching a new major species being introduced on Star Trek, and I'm digging the new ships they rock up in! You know, its possibly deeper, more important than that; this, this is what it must have felt like to be on one of the first situational comedies, in the 50s, doing TV on a radio budget and turnaround time, but knowing you were starting something with legs. Whatever creature our hero starts turning into down there you may rest assured, you have our undivided attention!