SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco Results In A Soil Based Medium

[BabyTrees]

Hey Baby Trees, welcome to #SIP club!

The size/height of the connector cup will depend on the distance between the bottoms of the two buckets. You want something tall enough to bridge the entire distance. It's ok if it's too tall as it can extend higher up in the upper bucket.

Whatever you use for that connector cup will have soil pretty well packed down in it so not much will wash out.

Hydroton will function differently from soil but that may only matter if you grow organically. Otherwise either will serve the same function, namely wicking water from the bottom bucket up into the upper one, as well as providing a foothold for the roots that want to explore the reservoir area.

Thank ya very much I didn't think about the distance from the bottom, the net cups I had in mind surely won't work. definitely loving all the ideas y'all have thrown out keep it up 420fam!

Edit- Found another video where the gent uses 2 3 inch net pots (one cut in half) and zips em too the underside of the 5 gallon bucket and it's a perfect fit. I've got all the materials outside of the PVC, think I'll join yall on this endeavor! is the video I'll likely be following.

 

[ReservoirDog]

hgdjhfgkhj.n

I'm seeing some signs of too much N..
how do you approach that in a sip?
I could fill up again with just PK & CM

@farside05 is an excellent resource on this topic. I hope he’ll pop in and shed some light.

Hey RD, how do you give the kelp to your worms? I read of someone who said when he gave too much of a percentage of kelp to his worms they were not happy. I mostly give my worms banana and fruit skins, a handful of lawn clippings when I've mowed the lawn, and some dead leaves if Autumn etc etc. I'm assuming you're blending the kelp up to give them, do you give them a 'feed' that is 100% kelp, or do you give kelp as part of a mix with other food sources for them? Thanks.

hiya Stunger. I always make sure there's a mix of feed types in the worm bins and I mix feed ahead of time just to be sure as a precaution against possible toxicities. Things like kelp can go in the freezer if needed to keep fresh, indeed all of them can.

I’m trying to create a sustainable 420 grow system that uses fertility inputs of the highest possible quality, and lowest possible cost!

Having converted my entire front lawn to a food gardening space last year, I now have a lot more motivation, and opportunity to experiment.

As a group, these special plants are called “accumulators” as they absorb and retain, in their tissues, huge levels of NPK and micronutrients, each one specializing in different elements. Last spring I collected masses of these plants and made over 100 litres of KNf fermented liquid fertilizers from them, but, I also transplanted dozens in my “food forest” area.

I provide the worms with a mix of all the plants at the same time and keep track of the inputs.

For bedding, I used coco coir but switched to leaves and paper. I think that some carbon from charred hardwoods would make a great addition too, and I've been collecting old pieces that will also be used in my beneficial bacteria-culturing projects.

So, I’m not using the worms to help me compost kitchen waste. Instead, I’m targeting these special accumulator plants that are extremely high in all of the elements our canna plants want in an attempt to develop the ultimate 420 worm castings, and experiment using these castings as my sole input, using only peat/ perlite and these special castings.

I’m getting quite close to harvesting my first large batch of these “Ultimate 420 Castings”, so I imagine I’ll soon find out what's what. However, I can say that so long as I maintain their environment correctly, and feed them a mix of these plants etc all together, I don’t have issues with left-behind feed toxifying the environment.

Azimuth provides a list of Accumulator Plants on his Jadam/Korean Farming thread, including the typical elemental breakdown of each so you can pick based on nutrient need.

Turning it all into worm manure ought to create a far superior product given the enzymatic breakdown that takes place, and the huge calcium boost provided by the juicy muck inside a worm's digestive tract. I was concerned at the outset whether worms would eat all the accumulator plants I provide but have answered that question in the affirmative over last 6 mo.

Here is an almost complete list of what I feed them (all plants are given fresh/frozen unless otherwise noted): ground eggshells, stinging nettle, comfrey, horsetail, bamboo leaves, dandelion (all parts), Bull kelp, rhododendron flowers, beech tree flowers, willow leaves/bark, alfalfa, cannabis clippings, leftover ‘cakes’ from my mushroom grows (chock full of calcium).

Oh, also, I add beneficial bacteria (NPK brand) and mycorrhizae, lots. I actually culture my own bennies and mycs ('seed' with store-bought, reproduce and harvest - it’s easy)

I have also experimented with adding insect frass to the bedding so I get a chitin supply in my castings, and leonardite-sourced humates too, both of which seem not to have caused any issues, however, I have to buy both of those and I’m trying to create something with virtually zero store-bought inputs. Your goals may be different however so I’m including them.

 

[Fenderbender]

hgdjhfgkhj.n

mpkrtyfyfs.i?

 

[BabyTrees]

mpkrtyfyfs.i?

qwertyxfsfsfsfs??

 

[ReservoirDog]

Well it was a healthy plant but nothing of noticeable difference. I shoot for healthy and it was.

Northern Lights 12/12 from seed

P141 NL3 w4 a.jpg

• Hash Hound
• Jan 23, 2023

week 12, just as fast as an auto

P141 NL3 w12 b.jpg

• Hash Hound
• Jan 23, 2023

P141 NL3 w12 e.jpg

• Hash Hound
• Jan 23, 2023

Awesome nice 12/12, HH! 12w? 13-16w? Choice m8. choice.

 

[Stunger]

hgdjhfgkhj.n



@farside05 is an excellent resource on this topic. I hope he’ll pop in and shed some light.

hiya Stunger. I always make sure there's a mix of feed types in the worm bins and I mix feed ahead of time just to be sure as a precaution against possible toxicities. Things like kelp can go in the freezer if needed to keep fresh, indeed all of them can.

I’m trying to create a sustainable 420 grow system that uses fertility inputs of the highest possible quality, and lowest possible cost!

Having converted my entire front lawn to a food gardening space last year, I now have a lot more motivation, and opportunity to experiment.

As a group, these special plants are called “accumulators” as they absorb and retain, in their tissues, huge levels of NPK and micronutrients, each one specializing in different elements. Last spring I collected masses of these plants and made over 100 litres of KNf fermented liquid fertilizers from them, but, I also transplanted dozens in my “food forest” area.

I provide the worms with a mix of all the plants at the same time and keep track of the inputs.

For bedding, I used coco coir but switched to leaves and paper. I think that some carbon from charred hardwoods would make a great addition too, and I've been collecting old pieces that will also be used in my beneficial bacteria-culturing projects.

So, I’m not using the worms to help me compost kitchen waste. Instead, I’m targeting these special accumulator plants that are extremely high in all of the elements our canna plants want in an attempt to develop the ultimate 420 worm castings, and experiment using these castings as my sole input, using only peat/ perlite and these special castings.

I’m getting quite close to harvesting my first large batch of these “Ultimate 420 Castings”, so I imagine I’ll soon find out what's what. However, I can say that so long as I maintain their environment correctly, and feed them a mix of these plants etc all together, I don’t have issues with left-behind feed toxifying the environment.

Azimuth provides a list of Accumulator Plants on his Jadam/Korean Farming thread, including the typical elemental breakdown of each so you can pick based on nutrient need.

Turning it all into worm manure ought to create a far superior product given the enzymatic breakdown that takes place, and the huge calcium boost provided by the juicy muck inside a worm's digestive tract. I was concerned at the outset whether worms would eat all the accumulator plants I provide but have answered that question in the affirmative over last 6 mo.

Here is an almost complete list of what I feed them (all plants are given fresh/frozen unless otherwise noted): ground eggshells, stinging nettle, comfrey, horsetail, bamboo leaves, dandelion (all parts), Bull kelp, rhododendron flowers, beech tree flowers, willow leaves/bark, alfalfa, cannabis clippings, leftover ‘cakes’ from my mushroom grows (chock full of calcium).

Oh, also, I add beneficial bacteria (NPK brand) and mycorrhizae, lots. I actually culture my own bennies and mycs ('seed' with store-bought, reproduce and harvest - it’s easy)

I have also experimented with adding insect frass to the bedding so I get a chitin supply in my castings, and leonardite-sourced humates too, both of which seem not to have caused any issues, however, I have to buy both of those and I’m trying to create something with virtually zero store-bought inputs. Your goals may be different however so I’m including them.

Thank you so much for the detailed reply RD, really helpful! The winds are up today, the kite surfers are out, and I'm going to gather some kelp and any other appealing looking seaweed on the shoreline. Man, your worm castings are going to be loaded with goodness! You are truly inspiring me - like a heck of a lot of great growers here. Thanks again!

 

[farside05]

I'm seeing some signs of too much N..
how do you approach that in a sip?
I could fill up again with just PK & CM

I didn't see an accompanying picture here. Looked at your thread and didn't see anything to indicate such. Not sure which nutes or amounts you are feeding to know how much (ppm) of N they are currently being fed. I'm at 150ish ppm of N with plants roughly the same size. Plan is to continue that level through harvest. I would caution against just feeding PK and CM. Most nutrient lines (multi bottle) have all or most of the micros tied to the N component. You could be setting yourself up for multiple deficiencies.

@farside05 is an excellent resource on this topic. I hope he’ll pop in and shed some light.

I got the page.

 

[ReservoirDog]

Thank you so much for the detailed reply RD, really helpful! The winds are up today, the kite surfers are out, and I'm going to gather some kelp and any other appealing looking seaweed on the shoreline. Man, your worm castings are going to be loaded with goodness! You are truly inspiring me - like a heck of a lot of great growers here. Thanks again!

Oh hey, speaking of, it’s going to freeze at the weekend, Friday night. No snow forecast but plan on it for a week hence if temps persist.

Anyone wants to talk weather, I’m down. But we’d best find another . Tag me… or go to my, *ahem*, ‘current’ below.

 

[Fenderbender]

I didn't see an accompanying picture here. Looked at your thread and didn't see anything to indicate such. Not sure which nutes or amounts you are feeding to know how much (ppm) of N they are currently being fed. I'm at 150ish ppm of N with plants roughly the same size. Plan is to continue that level through harvest. I would caution against just feeding PK and CM. Most nutrient lines (multi bottle) have all or most of the micros tied to the N component. You could be setting yourself up for multiple deficiencies.

Well the thing is she got full nutes at day 12.. as I had no idea the res would permeate the soil instantly (especially not after first topfeeding and soaking through the soil but a third of the res still got sucked up overnight) And the soil is prefed as well. So that was a lot for a tiny thing but she ran with it.. It's in the new growth underneath that I'm seeing totally clawed leaves, like almost shut, might also be a feet too wet syndrome? or evaporating too fast..
The colour in daylight is also very dark green, under the led it looks okay. That's why I was thinking possibly N?

 

[Hash Hound]

Awesome nice 12/12, HH! 12w? 13-16w? Choice m8. choice.

thanks RD 12 weeks total 12/12 from seed

 

[BabyTrees]

Just missing a lil float to tell me water level! ran out and grabbed some PVC today and threw this together, thinking about putting an aquarium heater in the bottom due too the temperatures in my grow. excited for this! thanks for the ideas y'all.

 

[farside05]

Well the thing is she got full nutes at day 12.. as I had no idea the res would permeate the soil instantly (especially not after first topfeeding and soaking through the soil but a third of the res still got sucked up overnight) And the soil is prefed as well. So that was a lot for a tiny thing but she ran with it.. It's in the new growth underneath that I'm seeing totally clawed leaves, like almost shut, might also be a feet to wet syndrome? or evaporating too fast..
The colour in daylight is also very dark green, under the led it looks okay. That's why I was thinking possibly N?

I would expect to see some burnt leaf tips like this if it were too much N. That's normally the first indicator.

IMG_20180517_130526.jpg

• farside05
• May 17, 2018

I'm also starting to wonder if it's possible to over water in a SIP, as long as you have an overflow hole. You can see below that the roots just don't invade the super saturated soil where the wicking action takes place. The roots seem to stop at the same height as the overflow hole.

PXL_20230111_180806044.jpg

• farside05
• Jan 11, 2023

You say it's the lower growth. How close are those leaves to the soil? My soil stays more moist all the time than it would in a top watered fabric pot. This may be more of an environmental issue. More airflow closer to the pot top may be the answer.

 

[Fenderbender]

Haven't had yellow tips since feeding with the biocanna stuff, hmm well nothing from my plant is far away from the soil., yes the soil is always pretty wet, I do have a layer of hydroton on top as well, is that leeching water from the leaves?

 

[ReservoirDog]

A few images to assist your mind’s eye….

I’m building out another half-dozen of these SIPs because they hold almost 9 gallons water - which lasts 10 days during time of highest consumption - (the last 6 weeks).

Because I have 2 flowering tents, and they are on different levels, using a large external rez with control bucket and gravity feed doesn’t work well, so large individual reservoirs are next best.

If I end up using 4 sips per tent I may hook up a 30-50 gal gravity rez, but for now I think I’m going to save the grav-rez for the outdoor 420 plants I’m going to grow on the roof of my house, where humping water would be quite miserable.

This past year my watering chores for the veggies and fertilizer plants took 2 hours - every single day. I hope to double my outdoor production this year while halving the time it takes to water by deploying 20 SIPs outside this year (not counting my roof-weed) and adding a drip line to my 35 ft. raised bed.

This pictured design also features a minimum 2 inch air gap that just gets larger as rez level drops, and 10-15, 1/4 inch holes per side placed as high up and close to reservoir’s rim as possible in order to permit extreme airflow into reservoir.

I’m using 7 gallon plastic nursery pots here but up to 10 gal soft pots can be used without cutting hole for wick foot, provided you create a good contact between wicking foot and soft pot bottom. I guesstimate you’ll want 6 inch perf pipe in the case of soft pots because they dry very fast, and I’m waiting to build those versions until I have some 6“ perf. pipe in stock.

 

[013]

Hey SIPers,

Truly I could destroy an anvil with a feather, bleeding edge of mayhem, but need your help!

Wedding Cake just over 2 weeks in flower (homemade 5 gallon SIP) blend of 2 local potting soil mixes with Geoflora organic dry mix added. I do have soil mites but they are not attacking the plant. I also use BTi mosquito bits regularly, in the res, in feed water, top dressed into soil.

Filled res this morning to slight runoff and noticed tons of larvae that looked like tiny brown sticks moving about. Before I could even think I’m shoving a good splash of H2O2 down funnel pipe. Tried to grab tablet for a pic but most floated away into the drain tray.

I’ve tipped the bucket trying to get more to come out the res but mostly get dirty peat water from wick foot. No doubt there were cousins by the dozen in first runoff

zoom up but about 2 inches to the left of that small piece of perlite… i know the image sucks out loud but it’s all I’ve got.

thinking about taping up reservoir overflow holes and hitting it with half bottle of H2O2 or would biological like Spinosad or BTk be better? I’ve got also Neem oil, SNS 203 & 209 and oil dormant spray on hand

unknown critters in the res, what’s up with that??

I’ve tilted the SIP to drain as much res water as I could….

Help please!

646D45FA-AF37-450F-ACA0-B154A7B9EE6A.jpeg

• 013
• Jan 26, 2023

 

[chinchillin]

I’m using 7 gallon plastic nursery pots here but up to 10 gal soft pots can be used without cutting hole for wick foot, provided you create a good contact between wicking foot and soft pot bottom. I guesstimate you’ll want 6 inch perf pipe in the case of soft pots because they dry very fast, and I’m waiting to build those versions until I have some 6“ perf. pipe in stock.

What would make a good enough connection through to the cloth pot?

 

[InTheShed]

I also use BTi mosquito bits regularly, in the res, in feed water, top dressed into soil.

BTI takes 24 hours to populate the water, so if the res is being sucked dry by the plant faster than that it might not be having the desired effect (assuming whatever is down there is affected by BTI). Might want to try filling a bucket with water and letting the bits sit there for 24 hours and then use it in the res.

@Carcass fills up a 5 gallon bucket and adds the bits to that, waits 24 hours, and uses some of that to mix his nutes. Then he tops off the bucket and they repopulate so he doesn't have to keep using more bits.

 

[013]

Thanks Shed!!

Yes sir, I’ve been adding mosquito bits to the reservoir fill tube & as top dress from day 1. Every few days I drop spoonful down the feed tube hatch and flood with water (yup holes drilled in bottom of feed tube) Critters have kicked my areas many times over so I’m very consistent with adding mosquito bits to my buckets to soak overnight.

She not really drinking res in a day just yet but it’s almost there…

I know what mosquito larvea look like but this is something way different, not sure what species I’ve got and may be beneficial but IDK.

 

[Hash Hound]

@013 is it possible to add a drain low on the reservoir?
add a rubber grommet and a shutoff valve, that will let you flush out the reservoir easier than tipping the sip.
or you can use a piece of Flex Tape to cover the hole after you flush.

 

[013]

Thank you Hash Hound!

Way kewl, that’s a great idea!!! Any ideas on killing water born critters?