SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco Results In A Soil Based Medium

[Thirvnrob]

Aha! Thanks! So when it gets close to minimum I can add.. I'm gonna let it use up as much as it can as well I want loads of fresh water in there after a month.
I don't think I have to fear light penetration, it's grey but very thick walling.
Cats are fine! only hungry for non flowering leaves
And yes! since the setup is in my music/living room I've set it up as neatly and part of the furniture as I can

I had some 7 gallon bags I put my white buckets in. They open up in one side so I still have access to the drain hole & then close it with Velcro when I’m finished filling the tube…

 

[chinchillin]

Also, keep in mind that the cloth bag has to sit directly on the soil column with no gap between the bag and the media to ensure good wicking.

I figured I'd canabalize the pot a bit by cutting holes in the bottom to put the wicking cup and water pipe. Then singe the fabric to ensure it from degrading too badly. Sitting on a tote would require cutting aeration holes on the lid.

A look at your totes and what you just said with the low and wide seem great ideas as well. Could find square cloth bags or just some round cloth bag that will fit nicely on the tote lid.

A comparison between using totes/buckets vs. a cloth bag to hold the soil could be a way to give back to this forum

 

[Azimuth]

Thats a great point Azi. I guess I could always run leaves thru the WF and if there were any unruly pests the worms would deal with them.

I get more pests with my fresh castings than the leaf mold. I've started drying the castings out before using and that seems to have helped.

I really like @ReservoirDog idea of feeding the worms flowers for the P content tho, thats a good one.

I do the same, but with inputs specifically selected. For flowers I use only the big showy flowers like peony and daylily or those of the dynamic accumulators like dandelion and comfrey. I don't know if the selection of large showy flowers matters but those are the kinds of hormones that I want to encourage in other types of flowers, although it might be worth exploring which flowers have more P than others if such a list even exists.

For my cannabis flowers, I've started making a Jadam water extract of the larf buds specific to individual strains so those don't get run through the general purpose worm bin. There aren't enough of those to spread around too far.

I also ran comfrey, stinging nettle, dandelion, and seaweed through the bin and sprinkle a weekly addition of all my meals and mineral mix.

It'll be April before I can test it, but it should be some pretty good stuff since the minerals will have had 6 months to start breaking down and now they'll be covered in calcium slime.

pretty confident the fuzz is still active in the soil but it can’t survive above ground when exposed to light, air or the combo of both…. at least that’s my theory

Light mostly I'd bet, also the higher humidity of a closed space likely helps. I have left one of my leaf mold barrels covered for a couple of years and the white fuzz continued to grow thicker and chunks can now be pulled off. It has a spongy texture to it.

Interestingly, the leaves immediately below it still have the coloring of fresh leaves rather than the dark, crumbly texture of what I know as leaf mold. They are stuck together in clumps with white filament-like strands.

 

[Azimuth]

I figured I'd canabalize the pot a bit by cutting holes in the bottom to put the wicking cup and water pipe. Then singe the fabric to ensure it from degrading too badly. Sitting on a tote would require cutting aeration holes on the lid.

A look at your totes and what you just said with the low and wide seem great ideas as well. Could find square cloth bags or just some round cloth bag that will fit nicely on the tote lid.

A comparison between using totes/buckets vs. a cloth bag to hold the soil could be a way to give back to this forum

You could just set the bag right on the soil or even a bed of perlite and skip the wicking cup and fill pipe altogether. The bag will wick up the moisture from below quite well. So no holes need to be made in the lid.

 

[Hash Hound]

Thanks @Hash Hound . Are you using synthetic or organic nutes? And if synthetic are you exceeding the manufacturer's recommendations or more moving up to full throttle

@Azimuth I normally amend with a cup of Dr Earth Organics and some other goodies at a cup DrE for 7g bag and DrE recommends that for 5g. If I got a light deficiency I just rode it out because sometime it's late and it might be a fade/deficiency combo.
Lately I've upped it to 1 1/4 cup and I add another 1/4 around the top while transplanting. Plus I started adding about 1/4 of Terp Tea Bloom which I also use now for my teas instead of DrE. My plants love it.

P194 PC w6c.jpg

• Hash Hound
• Jan 14, 2023
• 1

I added Blue Planet 3 part to my sip 3x this grow and I used synthetic Remos last grow in a hempy but for the most part I load up soil and water and tea them

The friend I help goes heavier than me in FFOF with no problems.
This grow I talked him into not using what ever bloom booster they talk him into at the store and he's amazed the frost and health this grow without them.

 

[gazmufc]

That was the first assumption, but then I realized that the problem I was having was due to the nature of GeoFlora and how it had to be applied at the top. When I started watering once a week from the top to activate those nutes and drive them into the soil, the deficiencies went away. Same nutes, same interval, same concentration as recommended... just applying it a little more intelligently.

Hey Emilya

I'm going to be setting up my first run at sips in the coming weeks. I'm running Los, and have I've seen from past posts you are running it with dry amendedments. I plan on reusing my soil when I am finished my current run. All necessary amendments are being shipped by Wednesday.

Going to be using the gogrow incert for 3g buckets. When u top dress did you still water from the top? Can you still give compost tea into the res? Would I want to have about 6g of the 20g made up of perlite, or is that to much!? I heard some other folks saying you don't want much water retention. Idk obviously.
Gonna try some autos, hoping to have it up and running in about 2 weeks.. Thanks in advance for any feedback.. .

 

[Hash Hound]

Here is the first step in the new experiment, to see if it even dissolves in water completely. This morning I put 1/3 of a cup of GeoFlora bloom into a solo cup of water and stirred well. I am curious how long it's going to take for it to break down completely.

@Emilya Green

this is from the web site

GEOFLORA APPLICATION: ..........
Geoflora is not water-soluble, but can be used as a base for a tea with a tea bag for brewing.


I know they don't recommend it but have you ever tried amending it into the soil and water only instead of top dressing it?

 

[chinchillin]

You could just set the bag right on the soil or even a bed of perlite and skip the wicking cup and fill pipe altogether. The bag will wick up the moisture from below quite well. So no holes need to be made in the lid.

Sorry, I can't connect the dots with the soil part because of a major migraine atm. A bed of perlite would just make it a swick eh? The original goal would to have a huge amount of water during flowering to keep tight and dark, in case of longer trips, without the need of constructing a soil/perlite bed. Just to keep the room clean and all components "moveable" just in case. Without much knowledge in all of this, still wondering about how bottom feeding some tea brews for a more slow release in order to stick to low maintenance watering. Organics sitting in still water for a while doesn't sound like a good idea though.

If the key for a SIP is aeration from the bottom then why not from the sides? Half considering making some airpots out of connecting some seedling trays together like this guy. Then there could a bucket, fabric pot and airpot grow at the same time!

 

[Emilya Green]

@Emilya Green

this is from the web site

GEOFLORA APPLICATION: ..........
Geoflora is not water-soluble, but can be used as a base for a tea with a tea bag for brewing.


I know they don't recommend it but have you ever tried amending it into the soil and water only instead of top dressing it?

Thank you for looking that up! I can see that it's not going to break down all the way but a whole lot of it has and the water is very dark.

I do put one full dose in the soil as I'm building the containers but I don't think that that is expected to last for very long and I've never thought of it as an actual feeding. I'm going to see if this waterlogged dosage makes any difference on my yellowish plant and I'll apply it this evening after the football game.

 

[Emilya Green]

Hey Emilya

I'm going to be setting up my first run at sips in the coming weeks. I'm running Los, and have I've seen from past posts you are running it with dry amendedments. I plan on reusing my soil when I am finished my current run. All necessary amendments are being shipped by Wednesday.

Going to be using the gogrow incert for 3g buckets. When u top dress did you still water from the top? Can you still give compost tea into the res? Would I want to have about 6g of the 20g made up of perlite, or is that to much!? I heard some other folks saying you don't want much water retention. Idk obviously.
Gonna try some autos, hoping to have it up and running in about 2 weeks.. Thanks in advance for any feedback.. .

As long as your wicking is making a good connection with the res I don't see a problem with an occasional tea. I am just using regular Fox farm soil though and not an LOS, so it's not like I'm just adding amendments from the top, I am adding the entire feeding and microbe system every time I feed at two week intervals. Adding dry amendments to a living soil is a completely different process than what I'm doing. GeoFlora, since it is a top dressed system does need topwater when I apply it and I'm finding an additional need for a top watering about halfway through the feeding period just to water it in again. Again, this is different than the needs you would find in a LOS system.

As far as perlite goes I've always heard it was 20% that was the best.

 

[Azimuth]

Azi mentioned calcium. Its more than a nutrient. In living soil its the main ingredient as it sets the colloidal charge to fill the colloidal plates with the proper ratio of all nutrients (aka organic chelation, but as nature designed it, not General Hydroponics, FoxFarms, etc..) so if its low, then your soil kitchen isn't able to properly load those plates and what does get loaded can and will get locked out as the charge isn't correct so nutrients stick to each other.

Different foods get locked out depending on how low it is.

PH is what allows cec to release the nutes from the plates. Different nutes swap out with hydrogen at different ph's and fall off the plate (become available, no longer locked out).

Thats why Cal-Mag is such a good rescue tool. It corrects the chelation and it also neutralizes magnesium back to its needed electrical state.

When calcium gets low in the soil the cal to mag ratio gets out of whack.

Magnesium starts to get electrically sticky and ties up other nutrients. It likes nitrogen the most so low cal in living soil usually shows as a nitro def 1st.

Calcium also, by using its double positive charge, which makes it your strongest electrolyte, sets the floculation of your soil.

Think of your soil particles as dinner plates stacked in the cupboard and held together by magnetism. Changing the charge with calcium changes that magnetism.

When you hold 2 magnets together they stick. Turn one around and they repel but spin around and stick by their own means.

When Calcium corrects the electricity in the soil structure it changes the polarities in the particles and every 2nd plate in the stack stands on edge forming I-beam structures in the soil particles that become hallways for air,water,microbes fungi... you get the picture.

Inside those hallways are soil particles laying everywhere. Some are huge boulders, some are pebbles, some are sand. Capillary action of water prefers the sand 1st as small particles have more surface area and capillary action needs that.

Air prefers the large gaps between the boulders to rush thru uninhibited.

When you get your aereation and electrical charge correct you get the proper atmosphere for water and air, plus proper food delivery.

Having an external res fill an internal one is really just using siphoning so if your soil gets too wet I would make a 2nd overflow hole a bit lower to drop the gradient but....

Azi would be a better guy to help you there.

Here is a link to a video that explains a lot about soil basics, which need to be set correctly for a chance in living soil.

Post in thread 'The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It' The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It

@Gee64 , I had thought your description of the effects of calcium on the soil were a bit exaggerated in an effort to describe your point, but I think I may be witnessing it in action.

I sprayed my calcium water on a broad selection of soil surfaces including some houseplants with a soil surface I would describe as hardpan. I really wish I had paid more attention but the soil surfaces are starting to look like I fluffed them with a small tool. Is this possible? Maybe I'm seeing things but the effect is quite a bit more dramatic than I was expecting.

I'll continue to spray the soil surfaces daily for a bit and see how it goes.

 

[Hash Hound]

Hey Emilya

..... Can you still give compost tea into the res? .....

I have and it smelled real foul the next day. I rinsed it all out, never again.

..... Without much knowledge in all of this, still wondering about how bottom feeding some tea brews for a more slow release in order to stick to low maintenance watering. Organics sitting in still water for a while doesn't sound like a good idea though.

If the key for a SIP is aeration from the bottom then why not from the sides? .....

Like stated above not a good idea from my experience.
I feed my teas from the top but no more than a half gal so it doesn't run into the reservoir.
I do most of my feeding when I amend the soil and rarely top dress, just a tea or two.

After 8 days of droughting I fed this afternoon and none of the 1/2g of tea ran out and it was pretty dry soil.
I also filled the wick res with a gal of plain water and I just checked and the res is bone dry.

About your aeration on the sides, that's the swicks advantage, sides and bottom get air.

modified sip with aeration from a few grows back

EP mod 7.jpg

• Hash Hound
• Jan 2, 2023

 

[Gee64]

@Gee64 , I had thought your description of the effects of calcium on the soil were a bit exaggerated in an effort to describe your point, but I think I may be witnessing it in action.

I sprayed my calcium water on a broad selection of soil surfaces including some houseplants with a soil surface I would describe as hardpan. I really wish I had paid more attention but the soil surfaces are starting to look like I fluffed them with a small tool. Is this possible? Maybe I'm seeing things but the effect is quite a bit more dramatic than I was expecting.

I'll continue to spray the soil surfaces daily for a bit and see how it goes.

Its all true azi, ca releases mags grip on contact. be careful and patient. low doses or you will fry the plant. when mag gets neutralized it will release nitro. gotta run...family...go slow with it.

 

[Gee64]

@Gee64 , I had thought your description of the effects of calcium on the soil were a bit exaggerated in an effort to describe your point, but I think I may be witnessing it in action.

I sprayed my calcium water on a broad selection of soil surfaces including some houseplants with a soil surface I would describe as hardpan. I really wish I had paid more attention but the soil surfaces are starting to look like I fluffed them with a small tool. Is this possible? Maybe I'm seeing things but the effect is quite a bit more dramatic than I was expecting.

I'll continue to spray the soil surfaces daily for a bit and see how it goes.

It also fixes hardpan on your lawn. I use gypsum for that.

Spread the gypsum pellets with a fertilizer spreader and water it in with a sprinkler for about 45 minutes.

In a few days it will look like someone buried golfballs.

Every pellet will be a lump of floculated soil. Do it every 2-3 weeks and by the autumn your lawn will be springy.

When you can push a pencil all the way down with one finger you have won.

People will step on it, make a wierd face, pop their shoes off and run around on it. Its hilarious!

It will strengthen the cell walls in lawn so well you will never see a grass stain again.

I run around on mine in white socks to make the point to my buddies who swear by 20-20-20.

Dandelions are calcium miners so if you correct the calcium they will diminish.

 

[Gee64]

Its all true azi, ca releases mags grip on contact. be careful and patient. low doses or you will fry the plant. when mag gets neutralized it will release nitro. gotta run...family...go slow with it.

I can't stress it enough Azi, be slow and gentle. As the soil releases its dumping nutes. You may see some burnt tips.

 

[Gee64]

The next step will be to dilute it and use it to feed one of my yellowest plants, to see if I can notice the difference

Be careful, thats a powerful tea right there. Go easy.

 

[ReservoirDog]

Fresh kelp...do you collect it in Victoria? Do you rinse it or just toss it straight in? I'm in Vic atm, where do you get it from? I would like to grab a bit to try.

The beach reached at the end of Cook St. has lots of parking and beach access both to the right and left as you hit Beach Drive at end of Cook St. It’s a popular but large beach, and there should be a lot of Kelp Bull Whips that’s washed ashore in tangled knots.

IslandView Beach, farther North in North Saanich, is the only other place I can think of at the moment that has enough SE exposure and large enough body of water beside it to collect storm flotsam. No guarantees on this one, I haven’t been for some time and memory has faded the details. I’d check whichever I had best, easiest access to.

These beaches will have kelp washed ashore by the winter storms. Unfortunately this kelp is finished it’s lifecycle and will have begun composting when you collect. (??)

Truthfully, it’s only a presumption on my part that fresh-picked spring/summer kelp vs beachcombed is superior, and as a result I wouldn’t presume to tell you one way or the other - but rather provide you the information for your own assessment. I think you’d have an excellent garden input using either.

I do use both, but, because when I do collect fresh stuff it’s from a boat lent by a friend, I tend to over collect the fresh stuff per my needs… since unsure about when I can next collect.

Or at least I did. Redeveloping my front yard last year into a food growing space has bumped up my needs profoundly. I think I’ll need to beachcomber some myself. My red wiggles devour the stuff.

For land lubbers winter beach collection of Bull Kelp Nereocystis luetkeana is the only reliable source and for crusty sea dawgs we have to wait until summer for the fresh to regrow. Obviously beachcomed kelp is the more sustainable practise as Bull Kelp provides seaweed forests that are primary habitat for critical species.

It’s one of the fastest growing “anything’s” on earth peaking at (way) over a foot per day, optimally. It’s loaded with potassium and a lot of trace minerals. Just rinse, soak it in fresh water for few hours and process. Let us know how you make out, mate!

 

[Gee64]

The beach reached at the end of Cook St. has lots of parking and beach access both to the right and left as you hit Beach Drive at end of Cook St. It’s a popular but large beach, and there should be a lot of Kelp Bull Whips that’s washed ashore in tangled knots.

IslandView Beach, farther North in North Saanich, is the only other place I can think of at the moment that has enough SE exposure and large enough body of water beside it to collect storm flotsam. No guarantees on this one, I haven’t been for some time and memory has faded the details. I’d check whichever I had best, easiest access to.

These beaches will have kelp washed ashore by the winter storms. Unfortunately this kelp is finished it’s lifecycle and will have begun composting when you collect. (??)

Truthfully, it’s only a presumption on my part that fresh-picked spring/summer kelp vs beachcombed is superior, and as a result I wouldn’t presume to tell you one way or the other - but rather provide you the information for your own assessment. I think you’d have an excellent garden input using either.

I do use both, but, because when I do collect fresh stuff it’s from a boat lent by a friend, I tend to over collect the fresh stuff per my needs… since unsure about when I can next collect.

Or at least I did. Redeveloping my front yard last year into a food growing space has bumped up my needs profoundly. I think I’ll need to beachcomber some myself. My red wiggles devour the stuff.

For land lubbers winter beach collection of Bull Kelp Nereocystis luetkeana is the only reliable source and for crusty sea dawgs we have to wait until summer for the fresh to regrow. Obviously beachcomed kelp is the more sustainable practise as Bull Kelp provides seaweed forests that are primary habitat for critical species.

It’s one of the fastest growing “anything’s” on earth peaking at (way) over a foot per day, optimally. It’s loaded with potassium and a lot of trace minerals. Just rinse, soak it in fresh water for few hours and process. Let us know how you make out, mate!

Awesome! The Sis was suggesting Island View beach for the dogs to run around. I will scope it out tomorrow and gather it in the summer when its fresh. Do you take the entire bull kelp or just parts of the plant?

 

[ReservoirDog]

Whole thing, chopped into pieces. I put it in a food processor, cause I can. Chopped is fine.

What I’m saying is fresh kelp has to be harvested by boat as it grows outside of tidal zone, in12-40ft. littoral waters, where it’s attached to sea floor, rising to surface with its gas-filled bladder.

It dies when not enough sun come October/November and the winter storms rip it’s weakening grip on the bottom away.

Which is why unless you have a boat and it’s Jun/July, the only option is winter, on a SE exposed beach. Then come spring this washed up kelp rots away.

 

[Gee64]

Whole thing, chopped into pieces. I put it in a food processor, cause I can. Chopped is fine.

What I’m saying is fresh kelp has to be harvested by boat as it grows outside of tidal zone, in12-40ft. littoral waters, where it’s attached to sea floor, rising to surface with its gas-filled bladder.

It dies when not enough sun come October/November and the winter storms rip it’s weakening grip on the bottom away.

Which is why unless you have a boat and it’s Jun/July, the only option is winter, on a SE exposed beach. Then come spring this washed up kelp rots away.

OK I gotcha. My buddy has a float cabin in Barclay Sound by Bamfield. We go every June/July and its on every tide line. I will load up then