Are they brown from the inside of the bud out or the outside in? I've seen that on sugar leaves where powdery mildew browned them from the tips toward the center of the flower.
SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco Results In A Soil Based Medium
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The brown goes into the stem. I’m not sure this pic will help.
I did check the two big top buds and found mold on the inside. I did not see anything on the lower buds. Shit…. Is this plant salvageable? This plants buds were super dense which I thought was a good thing. I guess that could have encouraged the mold.
Whenever you have bud rot the best thing to do is take off the rotten parts of the bud and another inch beyond that (in either direction if the bud is in the middle). If you can, lower the RH and cross your fingers.
If it's close to harvest I would cut away the bad stuff and take it down to guarantee it doesn't spread.
And don't dry low and slow in the fridge or even a slow hang dry. You want to quickly get the buds down into the mid 60s RH all the way through before you jar and burp.
CL
Hey Res. Just the guy I need to talk to. Are you using an External Res. to keep the Internal Res of your SIP full ? I thought I heard you mention this in a prior post. I'd sure like to know how that's going for you. I just built a 12 gal. SIP with a 12 gal. External res & not so sure I want to use it. I'm wondering if keeping the Internal Res full is causing the yellowing leaves.
Here's an article from Maximum Yield that kind of makes me think this could be the issue. I haven't added any Perlite or anything for aeration so this could be why. Never used perlite in Fabric Pots, but maybe it's necessary in SIP grows so the soil doesn't stay too wet.
Now I have to wonder if this yellowing is being caused by "Oxytropism". Oxytropism, is when your grow medium stays too wet & causes oxygen deprived areas, which roots avoid. I'm thinking this relates to the reason you shouldn't Top Water in SIP's. I'm also thinking that by me keeping my res full all the time, that it's causing this Oxytropism in my plants. So, now I have to ask myself if an external res to keep my internal res full is such a good idea. My soil may not be drying out enough between res refills & therefore not getting enough oxygen to the roots. According to what I've read this can cause the yellow leaves & looks like a deficiency. I may wait till Sunday to up-pot so I can do some internet reading on this matter to better understand it. But, I've tried several things for def. & none have worked....... Soooo ? Maybe this has something to do with it.
What's your thoughts ?
This is out of my league but it could be, it makes a lot of sense to me. I'll be interested to see what @ReservoirDog thinks about it.
Holy shitThe brown goes into the stem. I’m not sure this pic will help.
I did check the two big top buds and found mold on the inside. I did not see anything on the lower buds. Shit…. Is this plant salvageable? This plants buds were super dense which I thought was a good thing. I guess that could have encouraged the mold.
Beautiful.Hey SIP club! Happy Friday. My 420 white widow is about to turn 80 days. Looking for a little guidance. Does anyone know why she’s turning brown on top? Lower branches look ok but the brown is starting to spread. Thanks!
Nice work my friend.
#Vivosun #Love What You Grow
Bill284
Fenderbender
Well-Known Member
Buds, My soil has been feeling like freshly watered for over a month, res was also filled over a month ago and now at 1/3. And now with the plant a bit bigger it's finally speeding up.
I should wait a bit once it's empty?
But I'm wicking through hydroton should I really let that dry out? as now it's pretty much in motion.
I should wait a bit once it's empty?
But I'm wicking through hydroton should I really let that dry out? as now it's pretty much in motion.
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- #1,211
Hey Buds,
I've had deficiencies (or what look like it) on my last three grows. First two were P I think, and the current one looks like N, although I jacked up my nutes on the latest one to see if I could over feed it and looks like I w as successful as I may be getting lockouts because of it. @Gee64 thought it could be a need for more calcium to help offset other things so I increased that and, while still early, looks like it maybe is helping.
So, it could be several things going on with these plants.
Could be that the faster growth is causing the plants to need more than normal feedings, but if that were the case, why is that not also true of coco and hydro?
In my case, it could be that I don't have my feeding mix dialed in yet (which I think is definitely contributory to my issues), but it also could be other things as well.
Did you have the yellowing leaves on your previous grows? I think upping your N per Shed's calcs is a good place to start. You could also try going back to just watering them once a day in flower and see if that helps as they will dry more thoroughly in between. If it does, that might help narrow down possible solutions.
Em doesn't seem to have the yellowing issues with her larger reservoirs, so it doesn't seem to be a consistent issue with the container design.
- Thread starter
- #1,212
Hi Will,
I had something similar on a plant a few rounds back and it was certainly odd. I had dry, brown patches in the middle of some buds that started mid bud and didn't go all the way to the top of the bud, nor progress around the other side of it. I sprayed it with my JMS solution and it didn't seem to spread to other buds or get worse on the buds that had it.
It was a plant I had dusted with pollen so I was keen to let it finish so I could get mature seeds so I just let it go (for science
)It finished ok and I cut out and discarded the affected parts and got my seeds so it was successful in that regard, but I still don't know exactly what the issue was and haven't had it repeated, thankfully.
Earthbox makes an auto fill system for their system Buds. It should be ok to keep it full. I've been topping every day in mine.
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- #1,214
If you're wicking through hydroton you should have hydro roots well established in that layer by now. My original SIPs were all built that way and worked fine. I would not let that layer dry out, although with hydroton that could take a while since the clay balls seem to hold onto water for quite a while.
I find that while the plants are small, the water level doesn't drop much but that does speed up as the plant grows as you are noticing in your grow. I've adopted a different strategy in veg (especially early veg) in that I don't keep the reservoir constantly full, but I do keep some water in it down low.
My theory is that as long as there is some water down there the plant has access to all it wants so there is little advantage to keeping the res maxed out, and there are potential negatives that could be associated like a higher perched water table and the potential for the reservoir water to go stale.
Once the plant enters its hyper growth stage and starts drinking more heavily I generally increase the water level a bit and certainly once it gets into flower mode I try to be sure the reservoir stays well watered.
Gee64
Well-Known Member
I'm not sip-savvy Buds but I can tell you that lack of oxygen can and will lead to pretty much every nutritional deficiency there is if you are growing in living soil. Im not sure about synthetics but likely there too.
This is because when a nutrient is in the soil it has to be attached to an oxygen molecule for the system to recognize it as aerobic. Unattached it is anaerobic.
Microbes that prepare the food into plant friendly nutrition breathe air as well so without air you have no microbes to prepare the food. One part of the food prep is attaching that oxygen molecule.
Then there is your soil itself. Air is 78% nitrogen so if you are too wet, that air can't get in. No air, no nitrogen.
As for top watering, It is possible to do without detriment but only to the point where it refills your res to the desired level as the water will flow down. Too much and it will come out the overflow, but really that sounds counter-intuitive to sipping to me.
I use wicking, which really is a different version of sipping, but my res isn't attached, its a jar or bucket below the pot with wicks pulling the water up but still giving me that air gap. I also use cloth pots so over watering isn't possible.
As for perlite, think of it as a reef in the ocean, its a place that things (microbes) can hide and establish themselves into, but if you are using something else for aereation, such as rice hulls or whatever then you are still achieving the reef effect.
Perlite is inert so it goes round and round in my soil reammending without interfering so thats why its my preference.
Azi mentioned calcium. Its more than a nutrient. In living soil its the main ingredient as it sets the colloidal charge to fill the colloidal plates with the proper ratio of all nutrients (aka organic chelation, but as nature designed it, not General Hydroponics, FoxFarms, etc..) so if its low, then your soil kitchen isn't able to properly load those plates and what does get loaded can and will get locked out as the charge isn't correct so nutrients stick to each other.
Different foods get locked out depending on how low it is.
PH is what allows cec to release the nutes from the plates. Different nutes swap out with hydrogen at different ph's and fall off the plate (become available, no longer locked out).
Thats why Cal-Mag is such a good rescue tool. It corrects the chelation and it also neutralizes magnesium back to its needed electrical state.
When calcium gets low in the soil the cal to mag ratio gets out of whack.
Magnesium starts to get electrically sticky and ties up other nutrients. It likes nitrogen the most so low cal in living soil usually shows as a nitro def 1st.
Calcium also, by using its double positive charge, which makes it your strongest electrolyte, sets the floculation of your soil.
Think of your soil particles as dinner plates stacked in the cupboard and held together by magnetism. Changing the charge with calcium changes that magnetism.
When you hold 2 magnets together they stick. Turn one around and they repel but spin around and stick by their own means.
When Calcium corrects the electricity in the soil structure it changes the polarities in the particles and every 2nd plate in the stack stands on edge forming I-beam structures in the soil particles that become hallways for air,water,microbes fungi... you get the picture.
Inside those hallways are soil particles laying everywhere. Some are huge boulders, some are pebbles, some are sand. Capillary action of water prefers the sand 1st as small particles have more surface area and capillary action needs that.
Air prefers the large gaps between the boulders to rush thru uninhibited.
When you get your aereation and electrical charge correct you get the proper atmosphere for water and air, plus proper food delivery.
Having an external res fill an internal one is really just using siphoning so if your soil gets too wet I would make a 2nd overflow hole a bit lower to drop the gradient but....
Azi would be a better guy to help you there.
Here is a link to a video that explains a lot about soil basics, which need to be set correctly for a chance in living soil.
Post in thread 'The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It' The Gee Spot - You Finally Found It
Hope that helps you out.
Gee64
Well-Known Member
Azi, what are your thoughts on adding the home made calcium to the res? Does it appear to be moving upwards thru the soil?
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
In fact, it is true of coco and hydro. There you feed with less dosage, but constantly, unlike soil. The plants do get more nutes in those systems.
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- #1,218
Right, but in that case, you're feeding a lower concentration more often. Presumably Buds is doing his twice a day feedings at the max recommended rate provided by the nute company.
I guess the specific question would be, does one need a higher concentration of nutes in the mix to keep up with a SIP grow? Or maybe it needs a lower concentration to avoid excess and lockout.
I think I have the latter in my grow now with an N deficiency which I doubt as there should be an excess of N, if anything.
Wasn't it you that found you needed to feed your organic nutes at a shorter interval in your SIPs? In that case, same concentration just more often.
Emilya Green
Well-Known Member
That was the first assumption, but then I realized that the problem I was having was due to the nature of GeoFlora and how it had to be applied at the top. When I started watering once a week from the top to activate those nutes and drive them into the soil, the deficiencies went away. Same nutes, same interval, same concentration as recommended... just applying it a little more intelligently.
Gee64
Well-Known Member
Does Geoflora contain a strong calcium source? Conventional growing (top watering) needs calcium from the top.
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