SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco Results In A Soil Based Medium

[NickHardy]

I'd keep the stones around the overflow hole but lose the rest. There seems to be some magic in having soil all the way to the bottom, at least in an organic grow. And with your dome, I don't see much need for extra water reserve that the stones would provide.

Or at least build some of them that way so you can compare.

Yep - that was what I did on your advice before. 100% followed.
Just the photo I found first. I piled up around the overflow and removed around 60% of what you see. But these magic rocks I have I’m thinking. Doesn’t matter

 

[Azimuth]

Yep - that was what I did on your advice before. 100% followed.
Just the photo I found first. I piled up around the overflow and removed around 60% of what you see. But these magic rocks I have I’m thinking. Doesn’t matter

Well good. At least my advice is consistent so I have that going for me.

 

[ReservoirDog]

Yep - that was what I did on your advice before. 100% followed.
Just the photo I found first. I piled up around the overflow and removed around 60% of what you see. But these magic rocks I have I’m thinking. Doesn’t matter

Hi Nick. If you happen to know, would you be able to confirm for me whether the ‘fertilization’ claims regarding these rocks is based on a supposed overall CEC improvement they provide? Cation Exchange Capacity is, if I recall correctly, what the acronym “CEC” refers to, and based on my extraordinarily minimal knowledge of the science involved, this is my guess at how the magic rocks work.

I’m interested because I’ve been playing with the concept myself a little bit, in an effort to understand how a gardener ought best think of the process, if he ought think of it at all.

And the bags are called what?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08Q7DKNFM/?tag=420magazine0f-20

Greedy bastard

You too can have a green giant in 4 weeks flat, dear Azimuth. Fret not.

Beware! above link is for Canadian Amazon store, reference only for others.

As far as the nursery bags go they tend to advertise the flat measurement up front, ie the measurement before unfolded and filled, which can be confusing. I bought a variety pack so I could find the right size then bought some more of the right ones.

The size(s) I use are all under 10 inches on both flat measurements. I’m of the opinion that anything in the 6-7inches x 8-9inches flat measurement is your sweet-spot.

I’m dead-sold on these little guys but they take some getting used to. BTW one way to feed the seedling if you don’t want to feed via the bowl-water, or include fert into the grow matrix, is to load up a spray bottle with a weak dose of GH or MC, or your favourite, and spray the outside of the bag with it.

I would limit the application of biologicals (esp liquid forms) to some VitB, because you don’t want any algae growing on there if you can help it. My LiquiDirt will algae if applied this way. By all means, add your frass, and activate with LABs, but make sure something immediately available to the plant is in the mix too or you won’t get far past a couple of nodes before she runs out of gas on you.

The spraying of a synth-based nute to the bag (or just mixing with the water in the bowl) or mixing in a couple of pinches of organic tomato fert. seemed to have worked equally well for me.

I'm interested to hear how others feed their seedlings. Remember here that we’re trying to create a mini SIP, you need the water level to come no higher than an inch below your bag’s base to prevent giving her permanently over-wet feet. Spraying every few days with fertilizer seems to keep those roots growing like mad and doesn’t interfere too radically with your attempted moisture gradient. It all comes pretty easily after a couple go’s, I found. It’s weird, I know, but it works and I’m quite convinced after doing with multiple strains, tomatoes and cucumbers that it works a treat and keeps growth from stalling during adaptation periods after transplant into main SIP.

BTW I’ve switched over fully to the ‘faux-cto-pot’ design I posted here, from my 27gal tote SIPs with 2 10gal in them. The Faux-cto’s sport a plastic 7 gal or 7-10 gal soft pot, and carry 8-9 gallons in rez for each plant. A huge air gap is provided and my level gauge made from take out chop sticks and aerocloner foam discs works a treat. Turns out no structural supports are required either as I’ve two very large GG#4s happily sitting in 7 gals wet Promix with no issues. It’s similar to what @Emilya Green has recently done but is carrying a great deal more fertigation (or water) on-board. Construction is a doddle. Here’s inside one empty:

 

[InTheShed]

Looks like a work in progress to me. No shame!

What are your thoughts on the technique some folks are using for solo/starter pots, where they will bottom water either using wicks or just letting the water soak up from below. Would that also ease the transition to the full-sized SIP?

Beware! above link is for Canadian Amazon store, reference only for others.

Oddly enough they won't ship to California even from the US Amazon site but they will ship to other states!

 

[ReservoirDog]

Looks like a work in progress to me. No shame!

What are your thoughts on the technique some folks are using for solo/starter pots, where they will bottom water either using wicks or just letting the water soak up from below. Would that also ease the transition to the full-sized SIP?

Oddly enough they won't ship to California even from the US Amazon site but they will ship to other states!

Buggers! They are coming straight from China. If only Chinese subs carried commercial packages, we’d have unlimited, direct, daily service.

Yeah, what you mention is exactly how I started doing seedlings for SIPs and my hit rate for getting no transplant stall was not too shabby, prob 6/10, but it takes more care. This method has a better hit rate and takes less effort.

But, yes indeed, you could use anything, from the tiny 6-cell plastics to a true seedling mini-SIP from a 500ml pop bottle by cutting in half and turning the top section upside down and nesting in bottom half. I always tell people to avoid the pressed paper/ recycled cardboard pots, they are invariably loaded with fungi spores from the shipping centres or storage and will “bloom” when wet. Nasty.

 

[Azimuth]

But, yes indeed, you could use anything, from the tiny 6-cell plastics to a true seedling mini-SIP from a 500ml pop bottle by cutting in half and turning the top section upside down and nesting in bottom half. I always tell people to avoid the pressed paper/ recycled cardboard pots, they are invariably loaded with fungi spores from the shipping centres or storage and will “bloom” when wet. Nasty.

Or, just build it in a solo cup set-up like a hempy pot. Hole an inch up, perlite to just above the hole, soil above that. That setup most closely mirrors my environment where they'll live out their days.

 

[InTheShed]

Yeah, what you mention is exactly how I started doing seedlings for SIPs and my hit rate for getting no transplant stall was not too shabby, prob 6/10, but it takes more care. This method has a better hit rate and takes less effort.

Thanks RD!

Or, just build it in a solo cup set-up like a hempy pot. Hole an inch up, perlite to just above the hole, soil above that. That setup most closely mirrors my environment where they'll live out their days.

Thanks Azi...since I have those solo cups for cloning I'm going to try that one next.

 

[Azimuth]

Thanks Azi...since I have those solo cups for cloning I'm going to try that one next.

But, but, you don't grow in SIPs.

(At least yet...)

 

[InTheShed]

But, but, you don't grow in SIPs.

Not yet. Maybe you've read some of my previous posts?

 

[Azimuth]

Not yet. Maybe you've read some of my previous posts?

Yes. A few.

 

[ReservoirDog]

Thanks RD!

Thanks Azi...since I have those solo cups for cloning I'm going to try that one next.

I think double cupping with a wick would work, but you’d need to stand-off the top cup from the bottom to create the reservoir. I’d also make holes in the bottom of the planter (inner cup) to promote oxygenation and a small, central hole through which to thread the wick (don’t pinch the wick with too small an entry hole, for it will struggle to wick enough moisture)

A pop bottle section as stand-off will work too, and is customizable. Anything sturdy that won’t displace too much water is what we want here..

Mini-hempy is worth consideration, I think I’ll give that a shot again too.

Ultimately what I hope to develop is the capability to successfully root cuttings in the perforated baggies, and then simply drop each successful clone, baggie and all, into a SIP planter transplant hole when the time is right.

 

[ReservoirDog]

Thanks, Shed.

It would seem like a fogger or mister head might be perfect if they make such a thing.

Looking at Jungle River I see reptile misters. Lots of possibilities.

I've got an air pump for my compost teas and think I'll try to adapt that for a cloner. It pumps air, not water, but sits outside the bucket so won't cause temperature fluctuations. I remember getting some aeroponic effects from air stones with the bubbles bursting on the surface. I also remember height of stem above the water was pretty important.

I'll dig through the rubble pile and see what I have for parts.

Yeah, ultrasonic type foggers can work. Here’s one of my setups using a 4l repti-fogger. Avoid all but the very lightest fert mix, it wears the machine and makes less fog. My settings ended up: 30 seconds on, 3 minutes off on a timer. (it isn’t distilled water in there)

 

[Thirvnrob]

Buggers! They are coming straight from China. If only Chinese subs carried commercial packages, we’d have unlimited, direct, daily service.

Yeah, what you mention is exactly how I started doing seedlings for SIPs and my hit rate for getting no transplant stall was not too shabby, prob 6/10, but it takes more care. This method has a better hit rate and takes less effort.

But, yes indeed, you could use anything, from the tiny 6-cell plastics to a true seedling mini-SIP from a 500ml pop bottle by cutting in half and turning the top section upside down and nesting in bottom half. I always tell people to avoid the pressed paper/ recycled cardboard pots, they are invariably loaded with fungi spores from the shipping centres or storage and will “bloom” when wet. Nasty.

I did the pop bottle thing to plant a clone one time. I'd love to see any pics you have of this method for SIp...

 

[NickHardy]

Hi Nick. If you happen to know, would you be able to confirm for me whether the ‘fertilization’ claims regarding these rocks is based on a supposed overall CEC improvement they provide? Cation Exchange Capacity is, if I recall correctly, what the acronym “CEC” refers to, and based on my extraordinarily minimal knowledge of the science involved, this is my guess at how the magic rocks work.

I’m interested because I’ve been playing with the concept myself a little bit, in an effort to understand how a gardener ought best think of the process, if he ought think of it at all.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08Q7DKNFM/?tag=420magazine0f-20

You too can have a green giant in 4 weeks flat, dear Azimuth. Fret not.

Beware! above link is for Canadian Amazon store, reference only for others.

As far as the nursery bags go they tend to advertise the flat measurement up front, ie the measurement before unfolded and filled, which can be confusing. I bought a variety pack so I could find the right size then bought some more of the right ones.

The size(s) I use are all under 10 inches on both flat measurements. I’m of the opinion that anything in the 6-7inches x 8-9inches flat measurement is your sweet-spot.

I’m dead-sold on these little guys but they take some getting used to. BTW one way to feed the seedling if you don’t want to feed via the bowl-water, or include fert into the grow matrix, is to load up a spray bottle with a weak dose of GH or MC, or your favourite, and spray the outside of the bag with it.

I would limit the application of biologicals (esp liquid forms) to some VitB, because you don’t want any algae growing on there if you can help it. My LiquiDirt will algae if applied this way. By all means, add your frass, and activate with LABs, but make sure something immediately available to the plant is in the mix too or you won’t get far past a couple of nodes before she runs out of gas on you.

The spraying of a synth-based nute to the bag (or just mixing with the water in the bowl) or mixing in a couple of pinches of organic tomato fert. seemed to have worked equally well for me.

I'm interested to hear how others feed their seedlings. Remember here that we’re trying to create a mini SIP, you need the water level to come no higher than an inch below your bag’s base to prevent giving her permanently over-wet feet. Spraying every few days with fertilizer seems to keep those roots growing like mad and doesn’t interfere too radically with your attempted moisture gradient. It all comes pretty easily after a couple go’s, I found. It’s weird, I know, but it works and I’m quite convinced after doing with multiple strains, tomatoes and cucumbers that it works a treat and keeps growth from stalling during adaptation periods after transplant into main SIP.

BTW I’ve switched over fully to the ‘faux-cto-pot’ design I posted here, from my 27gal tote SIPs with 2 10gal in them. The Faux-cto’s sport a plastic 7 gal or 7-10 gal soft pot, and carry 8-9 gallons in rez for each plant. A huge air gap is provided and my level gauge made from take out chop sticks and aerocloner foam discs works a treat. Turns out no structural supports are required either as I’ve two very large GG#4s happily sitting in 7 gals wet Promix with no issues. It’s similar to what @Emilya Green has recently done but is carrying a great deal more fertigation (or water) on-board. Construction is a doddle. Here’s inside one empty:

I need to get my Translation Assistant to type what’s on the label into Google for me. Will do in a couple of hours. Maybe they did nothing, maybe they were brilliant. Maybe they are dangerous. Definitely giving them another go!

My next beans are going in an aeroponics system the bulk, 21 will go in coco peat after but will keep some for outdoor SIPS. It feels like the spraying from below would encourage the type of root growth you want for SIPS?

Well good. At least my advice is consistent so I have that going for me.

Totally mate. I did as instructed!

 

[InTheShed]

Avoid all but the very lightest fert mix, it wears the machine and makes less fog.

If that's just for rooting clones you can skip the fertilizer anyway! If you're keeping them in there after roots then you'd need nutes at that point.

Maybe they are dangerous. Definitely giving them another go!

LOL!

 

[chinchillin]

Earlier in this thread it was said that the air source is just there and sufficient and the stem is thicker in these pots vs. smart pots. I wonder if you could cut 25% off of a (lets say) 25L bucket off to act as a reservoir, then have a metal grating cut to fit on the top of new reservoir (supported by pvc?) and then to have a smart pot sit on top. We could have air pruning on the bottom and the sides? Would function pretty much like an autopot with a bigger than 18L cloth pot. Maybe we'd have to bastardize the smart pot somehow (by cutting holes on the bottom) in order to get direct access to pvc pipes that will go down into the water with however many holes or slits.

 

[013]

Hey Azimuth,

I went back and did some digging in an old, now closed 420 thread. What I was trying to confirm might have an impact on your quest for feeding jadam/KNF thru the SIP reservoir.

anywho I did confirm the “kit” growers were mixing nutes at double strength for bottom feeding….

the main difference is their plants were in traditional (non sip) containers and (many of them but not all) but many did dunk style bottom feeding where the containers were dunked into a larger container having the feed soup and then pulled out to drain and create a rush of oxygen entering the media as the liquids drained out.

obviously dunking a SIP is beyond needless however double strength nutes might be the way to go when feeding from the res…. how would you account for double strength with your KNF potions? Can you condense or cook it down so to speak? Maybe evaporate some liquid off with fan?

 

[Fenderbender]

Tomorrow she'll be at the end of 4 weeks.
Too bad the cat got to her, but well I'm topping anyways so most has to go.
I am seeing some yellow tips forming on the recent leaves.. a result of feeding too much early on and now she feels it's too much? or it turned her into a big hungry girl, or upwards mobility problem of the bionutes kicking in? As well my res was filled in 2022 so I imagine a gradation in the water, sediment on the bottom going to clear water on top.

 

[Hash Hound]

..... I wonder if you could cut 25% off of a (lets say) 25L bucket off to act as a reservoir, then have a metal grating cut to fit on the top of new reservoir (supported by pvc?) and then to have a smart pot sit on top. We could have air pruning on the bottom and the sides? Would function pretty much like an autopot with a bigger than 18L cloth pot. Maybe we'd have to bastardize the smart pot somehow (by cutting holes on the bottom) in order to get direct access to pvc pipes that will go down into the water with however many holes or slits.

I think you might be describing a swick

 

[chinchillin]

I think you might be describing a swick

Is a swick just a sip bucket set up with cloth pots?

Edit:
A bit of a question. With the areas/cups that will be mostly submerged in water, should they be stuffed with perlite or with the soil? Is there a limit to how high up perlite can wick up to or can part of the soil sit in water for such a long time? It was mentioned that swicking and the constant moisture wasn't good for the grow phase because the roots won't fully develop. Is that a real concern?