SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco Results In A Soil Based Medium

[Azimuth]

Here's my take. I honestly couldn't care less what we call them but think, given the contributions of the different components, the entire thing is mislabeled as the air component is what sets these things apart, not the fact that they are bottom watered or what method is used to move that water. And we don't even mention that component in the naming convention.

Having said that, I'd like to keep this thread to our original idea of a SIP with the various designs of soil being the wick and move the other discussions of naming and the usage of swicks over to Carmen's thread.

Coming up with some definition that everyone can agree on is beyond what I want to do here.

I'd rather focus on how to build and use them to grow more and better herb.

So, I'd encourage anyone wanting to continue to discuss naming conventions to head on over to Carmen's thread Here


Let's get back to talking about growing.

 

[StoneOtter]

Hahaha,
Maybe SIPS as a new forum category heading, with the following sub-categories?
1. Media Filled Cup SIPS
2. Air Gapped SIPS
3. SWICKS
4. WICKS
5. HEMPYS
??

@Azimuth?
@Hashhound ?
@StoneOtter ?
@ReservoirDog ?

Yikes! Ok, I'm happy to get behind a definitive index for this that has science as backing as best we can say, we are creating science here folks! That's something special! You folks are awesome to have hashed this out seemingly overnight! Keeping in mind it's newness, look at the new definitions! The important thing for me is the information on all the ways this is getting done. You/we all are doing that and sharing! My first SIP is still kicking and I'm watching all of yours! We'll all define this as time goes on. Thank you all for digging so deeply into this new exciting subject!

 

[Weffalo]

Important work being done, I'm very grateful for being recommend this method by @Azimuth and for everyone who shows what can be done with it. I am having great success with my first and second attempt, certainly watering issues are completely taken out of the equation and I'm just left with other newbie issues but with watering being one of the biggest new problems I'm very grateful.

Here's my Tropicanna Banana in DIY sip, 5gal bucket with a 2.5 litre res at 23 days above ground or day 8 of veg, the res has never been filled above 1/3rd until today when I've increased it to 50% capacity, so she's not even in the full swing of things just yet:

 

[Carmen Ray]

the air component is what sets these things apart

I don't want to be difficult Azi, but I think that so-called swick generally do use an air component in their builds. I have a great build going for my two autos off a swicking plate that I have created, which is placed in a dishwashing bowl with wicks leading up to the swicking plate. There is an air gap in this swick. I think that even the perlite swick will use an air component. The few inches of perlite above the water level are damp but not wet. Surely that is a rudimentary air gap because there will be air exchange going on in that layer.
I agree that what is important is the dissemination of the collective knowledge that the community shares in these threads. Learning how to build a SIP or a swick is what matters here. Learning and comparing so that we can improve.

 

[LKABudMan]

I just finished up my first grow in SIP. I grew a Fruit Punch Auto from @Herbies Seeds in Sohum soil with @GeoFlora Nutrients and @DYNOMYCO with Purpinator and Sweet Candy. She was grown in a 32x32x60 tent equipped with the @VIVOSUN Smart Grow System. The 100w @VIVOSUN AeroLight was on a 20/4 schedule for the entire grow. She went 110 days total, including an 11 day drought, before she was harvested.

20221223_081317.jpg

• LKABudMan
• Dec 23, 2022
• aerolight lovewhatyougrow vivosun

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto) 12/23 Day# 107 under the Vivosun AeroLight

20221223_081351.jpg

• LKABudMan
• Dec 23, 2022
• aerolight lovewhatyougrow vivosun

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto) 12/23 Day# 107 under the Vivosun AeroLight

Fruit Punch Auto from Herbies Seeds

• LKABudMan
• Dec 26, 2022

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto) 12/26 Day# 110 - Harvest Day

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• LKABudMan
• Dec 26, 2022

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto) 12/26 Day# 110 - Harvest Day

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• LKABudMan
• Dec 26, 2022

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto) 12/26 Day# 110 - Harvest Day

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• LKABudMan
• Dec 26, 2022

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto) 12/26 Day# 110 - Harvest Day

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• LKABudMan
• Dec 26, 2022

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto) 12/26 Day# 110 - Harvest Day

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• LKABudMan
• Dec 26, 2022

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto) 12/26 Day# 110 - Harvest Day

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• LKABudMan
• Dec 26, 2022

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto) 12/26 Day# 110 - Harvest Day

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• LKABudMan
• Dec 26, 2022

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto) 12/26 Day# 110 - Harvest Day

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• LKABudMan
• Dec 26, 2022

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto) 12/26 Day# 110 - Harvest Day

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• LKABudMan
• Dec 26, 2022

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto) 12/26 Day# 110 - Harvest Day

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• LKABudMan
• Dec 26, 2022

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto) 12/26 Day# 110 - The bones

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• LKABudMan
• Dec 23, 2022

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto) 12/23 Day# 107 - Post drought

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• LKABudMan
• Dec 23, 2022

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto) 12/23 Day# 107 - Post drought

Let's start with the roots. This plant had thicker roots than the plants I've grown in cloth pots, and a lot more of them. I did notice that no roots grew in the bottom around the GroBucket insert where it stayed wet. The top 2" looks dry as well. Everything else was completely filled with roots.

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• LKABudMan
• Jan 4, 2023

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto) root ball

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• LKABudMan
• Jan 4, 2023

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto) root ball

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• LKABudMan
• Jan 4, 2023

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto) root ball

She grew a huge stump too.

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• LKABudMan
• Jan 4, 2023

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto) root ball

I harvested her on 12/26 and she spent 8 days in the drying closet. I ended up harvesting 215g (7.5oz) from the one plant, almost a half pound. There is very little larf, most of the buds are tight, sticky and smell fantastic.

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• LKABudMan
• Jan 4, 2023

Branches dried and ready for bucking 1/3

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• LKABudMan
• Jan 4, 2023

Pebbles all bucked into trim bin 1/3

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• LKABudMan
• Jan 4, 2023

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto) in trim bin

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• LKABudMan
• Jan 4, 2023

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto) in trim bin

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• LKABudMan
• Jan 4, 2023

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto)

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• LKABudMan
• Jan 4, 2023

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto)

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• LKABudMan
• Jan 4, 2023

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto)

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• LKABudMan
• Jan 4, 2023

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto)

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• LKABudMan
• Jan 4, 2023

Pebbles (Fruit Punch Auto)

I'll be starting another auto in the same SIP in @VIVOSUN Smart Grow System. I loved how easy it was to water in the SIP and how little time it took daily to take care of her. The SIP growth is amazing as well. I think I've seen my last wet-dry cycle

 

[Kanno26]

What should the PH be in the SIP pot @Azimuth. Thanks for the info.

 

[InTheShed]

The point that I have been trying to make is that the so-called "swick" is a sub-irrigation method that works off a wicking surface, and that it does indeed fall into the broad definition of SIP (sub-irrigated Planter). I started the SWICK thread on @Azimuth suggestion. It definitely states that it is NOT trying to reinvent the wheel. That thread is available to the community for having these kinds of discussions. We are all learners here.

I've never sub-irrigated any plants, but I have definitely done wicking using rope or cloth from a bottle to the top of the plant. So it seems to me that the S very much relates to the "sub" aspect of the name SWICK.

 

[NickHardy]

I've never sub-irrigated any plants, but I have definitely done wicking using rope or cloth from a bottle to the top of the plant. So it seems to me that the S very much relates to the "sub" aspect of the name SWICK.

Yeah I reckon the world is ending and we can only send a few people out on rockets to rebuild humanity we vote you, Azi and Bill get spots on the rockets.

Between you the new era farming is covered off. Tomorrow think I’m going to repot my Dosidos - top after. Its out of sync with my other grow its with now.

Drop a couple of pics to tomorrow of the sip refresh.

 

[Fenderbender]

hmm day 15 okay, maybe I should just transfer a plant to the sip instead of starting in it.. as this might be going a bit too hard .. I didn't think the res would instantly permeate through the system like that when I filled it.. I mean she just broke ground 15 days ago.. the shell wasn't even off but a few days later.. there's loose skin around the stem as she's tearing through older layers because of growing quickly, and she already went asymmetric well in leaf finger count, not yet in branches that would be bad news for topping and the new leaves are weird one has three pronged tip with the middle tip growing under the other two, and the other side has the tip growing under as well.. and they are clawing a bit as well. Probably because they sit on a lot of moist soil.

Okay I kinda hoped and feared for this.. as well this does resemble DWC growth in terms off fast development.. and I fear like Azi said that I will get droopy plant look. if this system is quite wet I actually don't see the harm of layering it 284 style all the way through I'm gonna try that the next time.. As now there's a good chunk of just moist soil in the middle.
And I could see the advantage in a fabric pot sip or even a terracotta one. I mean that's been used for ages for plants.. and also gives some transpiration and aeration benefit, not as heavy as fabric pots but more than a plastic one I'd think.

And I probably should have held back on the nutes.. and just filled a bit of water and let her use the nutes from the light-mix.. well that's what I thought would happen if I just fed water with rhizotonic from the top and then filled some nutes in the res.. but since a good chunk disappeared overnight when filling the res that means a lot of that went upward and she's probably getting a double dose :/

 

[NickHardy]

Wanted to post this sorry to interupt any conversations as I'm about 4 pages behind. But I just updated my SIPPIN Suzanne journal and wanted to invite you to follow the madness that is unfolding!



These things are ridiculous! We're really pushing the boundaries of what these plants can normally do, and I LOVE IT!
SIP is the most inaccurate nickname ever btw I know its Sub Irrigated Planter but does that thing look like it takes SIPs to any of you all?!

Sorry please carry on!

Enthusiast level or above bro?!

You like them, yeah?

 

[013]

Hey Fender,

I copied this from Mad Dabber over on Carmen Rays sip or swick thread- click to expand & see bottom paragraph below.

So I'm sure you all know. But my goal for this technique is to use 2 5 gallon buckets. When I was around the forums last this is what I was looking into. There are different variations but simplest is just to drill a ton of quarter inch to 1/8 inch holes in the bottom of a home depot bucket. Place the bucket with holes inside an "unholy" bucket. Add a down pipe (pvc) and then fill with dirt. The down pipe may also have a couple holes near the bottom to prevent clogging etc.

Some variations use hydroton at the bottom (to aid with wicking) or use a net pot in place of the multi hole technique.

This is a great way to grow. While I have never attempted a true sip or swick. I have used hempy with great results.

The issue when using a salt based fetalizer is you run the risk of salt buildup and lockout as a result. My goal was to implement these sip style planters outdoors this year. If it's a water only regimen I can't imagine salt build up being an issue. I could see top feeding being necessary if and when the pot requires some top dressing amendments. But overall I'm stoked to run some of these in my greenhouse this summer!

it’s pertaining to salt based ferts in a SIP res…

 

[Hash Hound]

Ahh, ok! Great!
So what did you think about @Hashhound 's idea with the four new categories?
(Please give me a minute, and I will go quote and paste.)

no no no I was not suggesting new categories. I was just trying to explain things......which I will do no more

I'm happy with sips and swicks and I agree with Azumiths explanation a few pages back....eos

 

[Azimuth]

What should the PH be in the SIP pot @Azimuth. Thanks for the info.

Sorry Kanno. I don't pH my pots so I have no idea. I do know that coco should be lower than soil but @Bill284 will know.

 

[Azimuth]

hmm day 15 okay, maybe I should just transfer a plant to the sip instead of starting in it.. as this might be going a bit too hard .. I didn't think the res would instantly permeate through the system like that when I filled it.. I mean she just broke ground 15 days ago.. the shell wasn't even off but a few days later.. there's loose skin around the stem as she's tearing through older layers because of growing quickly, and she already went asymmetric well in leaf finger count, not yet in branches that would be bad news for topping and the new leaves are weird one has three pronged tip with the middle tip growing under the other two, and the other side has the tip growing under as well.. and they are clawing a bit as well. Probably because they sit on a lot of moist soil.

Okay I kinda hoped and feared for this.. as well this does resemble DWC growth in terms off fast development.. and I fear like Azi said that I will get droopy plant look. if this system is quite wet I actually don't see the harm of layering it 284 style all the way through I'm gonna try that the next time.. As now there's a good chunk of just moist soil in the middle.
And I could see the advantage in a fabric pot sip or even a terracotta one. I mean that's been used for ages for plants.. and also gives some transpiration and aeration benefit, not as heavy as fabric pots but more than a plastic one I'd think.

And I probably should have held back on the nutes.. and just filled a bit of water and let her use the nutes from the light-mix.. well that's what I thought would happen if I just fed water with rhizotonic from the top and then filled some nutes in the res.. but since a good chunk disappeared overnight when filling the res that means a lot of that went upward and she's probably getting a double dose :/

I think she looks pretty good.

 

[Azimuth]

I'm very grateful for being recommend this method by @Azimuth and for everyone who shows what can be done with it. I am having great success with my first and second attempt, certainly watering issues are completely taken out of the equation and I'm just left with other newbie issues but with watering being one of the biggest new problems I'm very grateful.

I've often thought that we should make new growers grow a plant by themselves before being allowed in to SIP Club. Would make them appreciate how good these things are once they got to try them. You know, kind of like hazing.

Yours are looking great Weff. Good stuff!

I'll be starting another auto in the same SIP in @VIVOSUN Smart Grow System. I loved how easy it was to water in the SIP and how little time it took daily to take care of her. The SIP growth is amazing as well. I think I've seen my last wet-dry cycle

Wow, great harvest, LKA! I'm with you on the wet/dry cycle. They're no longer for me either.

 

[lootznbootz]

I've often thought that we should make new growers grow a plant by themselves before being allowed in to SIP Club. Would make them appreciate how good these things are once they got to try them. You know, kind of like hazing.

I can appreciate this because of the side of the line I’m on

 

[Bill284]

Sorry Kanno. I don't pH my pots so I have no idea. I do know that coco should be lower than soil but @Bill284 will know.

If it's straight coco with a res at the bottom 5.7 - 5.8 is your goal.
But sip in soil would be hard for me to choose.
Soil part 6.3 res 5.8 how do you decide which to choose in Sip / Soil ?




#Vivosun #Love What You Grow
Bill284

 

[NickHardy]

EDITED - Nah - I'm going to use the same 100% Coco Peat and put 6.5 in and trust filling from top or bottom results in 5.8

Not all coco is greated equal too. I use Coco Peat (baked for neutral) but different to coco coir which is more just the outer fibre.

I did my first "dog killed the SIPstar" in a soil coco coir blend. But repotting tonight in coco peat and soil. I'm going to use soil nutes and aim 6.5 Will see how it grows. Oh and have some gardners volcanic rocks to replace the gravel type stuff I used first time. Just for added crazy with added nutes baked in!

Nick

 

[lootznbootz]

If it's straight coco with a res at the bottom 5.7 - 5.8 is your goal.
But sip in soil would be hard for me to choose.
Soil part 6.3 res 5.8 how do you decide which to choose in Sip / Soil ?




#Vivosun #Love What You Grow
Bill284

I’ve been keeping my watering for my res at 6.3
My thinking was if I put it into the soil through the top that’s what I’d want to water at.
If the soil is wicking water from the bottom instead should we maintain the water that we put into our soil in the same way?

The caveat being what about drift in the res. Does watering at 5.8 allow the res to be absorbed fully by the time it swings to 6.3 if it does in fact raise?

Because of these questions I’ve been keeping it simple and watering my soil and filling the sip near 6.3 best I can

 

[Blumentalist]

Hello All, I've been trying to digest all of this great information. I have one question to ask, I've tried to read through it all to find it. How do you feed the nutes ? Do you fill the reservoir with your nutrients as you would if you top feed? Thanks for the info in advance, looking to GroBuckets for my next grow.