SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco Results In A Soil Based Medium

[Hash Hound]

Yeah, mostly semantics. I view a SIP as more in one self contained bucket with the reservoir as part of the container, while I view a swick as a setup where the reservoir is completely separate from the grow mix, but connected by an artifical fabric wick. The reservoir can be completely outside of the container.

But the wick (usually fabric but sometimes a bed of perlite) as the link who's sole function is to move water, is the distinguishing feature for me.

tadaaaa

I believe this to be the best and most definitive of the explanations. I here by dub Azimuth as ruler of the sippers definition and would like to put this issue to rest and

lets get growing!!!

 

[Azimuth]

In the end it doesn't really matter what we call them or even if we call them different things. It's all just shorthand as we try to communicate thoughts and designs to each other.

 

[Azimuth]

tadaaaa

I believe this to be the best and most definitive of the explanations. I here by dub Azimuth as ruler of the sippers definition and would like to put this issue to rest and

lets get growing!!!

Thanks Hash.

Although you will note that based on my definition, I've seen designs that could be called either. But for me it's just shorthand so we get in the same neighborhood.

And, yes, back to growing!

 

[Hash Hound]

Thanks Hash.

Although you will note in my definition that I've seen designs that could called either. But for me it's just shorthand so we get in the same neighborhood.

And, yes, back to growing!

i thought of that after i posted

back to smokin !!!

 

[Carmen Ray]

Yeah, mostly semantics. I view a SIP as more in one self contained bucket with the reservoir as part of the container, while I view a swick as a setup where the reservoir is completely separate from the grow mix, but connected by an artifical fabric wick. The reservoir can be completely outside of the container.

But the wick (usually fabric but sometimes a bed of perlite) as the link who's sole function is to move water, is the distinguishing feature for me.

Then why not just call it what it is, WICKING ... Perhaps we should go back to calling it wicking as that is less complicated to understand and nobody really knows the origin or true purpose of the word swick.
I'm going to argue with you about SIPs. I take my hat off to you for having initiated a movement in the 420 universe to experiment with a very successful model for a build of a sub-irrigated planter, but I am going to stick to my guns and say that all methods of sub-irrigation are SIPs. That's what the acronym tells me and I have heard / read other gardeners say that too.
I don't mean to be confrontational. There appear to be different understandings of the definitions of the basics. I think we need to find a way to agree on definitions otherwise there will be a bunch of conflicting information floating around 420. You know that I am a beginner wicker and you know that I have done my homework before making the decision to wick. I'm not completely dumb and in the dark lol.

 

[Carmen Ray]

Then why not just call it what it is, WICKING ... Perhaps we should go back to calling it wicking as that is less complicated to understand and nobody really knows the origin or true purpose of the word swick.
I'm going to argue with you about SIPs. I take my hat off to you for having initiated a movement in the 420 universe to experiment with a very successful model for a build of a sub-irrigated planter, but I am going to stick to my guns and say that all methods of sub-irrigation are SIPs. That's what the acronym tells me and I have heard / read other gardeners say that too.
I don't mean to be confrontational. There appear to be different understandings of the definitions of the basics. I think we need to find a way to agree on definitions otherwise there will be a bunch of conflicting information floating around 420. You know that I am a beginner wicker and you know that I have done my homework before making the decision to wick. I'm not completely dumb and in the dark lol.

I took a long time to write this and I missed a whole conciliatory conversation and decisions made on semantic calls. I apologize for appearing to keep this argument going.

 

[Emilya Green]

I find your approach quite forceful and condescending.

I didn't know I was even arguing with you. I was simply stating the definition as I understood it, and I invited you to find the definition of the word SWICK so that you could tell me where I am going wrong. Yes, because I can clearly state my opinion, you call it forceful. Guilty as charged. I don't think I have so far been condescending in any way toward you or anyone else here, but maybe my forceful stating of my opinion is being considered to be something other than the loving, caring and helpful attitude I came to this question with... I do get that sometimes. I am sorry if the force of my words seemed like an argument and somehow hurtful to you. I profoundly apologize for hurting you in any way. Peace and love to you all, and I guess I will slink into the corner so as to not hurt anyone else with any further comments on this matter.

 

[Gee64]

Doh!! I didn't mean for a spirited debate to break out. Sorry.

 

[Gee64]

I didn't know I was even arguing with you. I was simply stating the definition as I understood it, and I invited you to find the definition of the word SWICK so that you could tell me where I am going wrong. Yes, because I can clearly state my opinion, you call it forceful. Guilty as charged. I don't think I have so far been condescending in any way toward you or anyone else here, but maybe my forceful stating of my opinion is being considered to be something other than the loving, caring and helpful attitude I came to this question with... I do get that sometimes. I am sorry if the force of my words seemed like an argument and somehow hurtful to you. I profoundly apologize for hurting you in any way. Peace and love to you all, and I guess I will slink into the corner so as to not hurt anyone else with any further comments on this matter.

Emilya THOU SHALT NOT SLINK. A misunderstanding is simply that, a casualty of texting. You got me rolling way back in 2017ish and the fun I have had since then is unparralleled so I say again... THOU SHALT NOT SLINK. And a giant Thanks for all you do around here!!

 

[CBDMed]

Swick allows roots to grow down into the water, sip gives a 1 inch air gap so that can't happen.

If I may comment in the interests of helping to establish a joint definition, what I see is a difference of base definitions.
I think it could be very helpful to have a calm, dispassionate discussion of the precise definitions of SIP and SWICK.
I am a noob, but there seems to be murky areas, and it would seem like a precise definition might help (a lot).

At the risk of being nosy and without intentions of being boastful, I did study for a Ph.D. in Psychology at one point.
Emilya, I don't see you doing or saying anything offsides.
I see you as stating your considered and researched opinions flatly, as fact.
Some people might not agree with your definition (and I have questions), but I don't see any moral transgression (or aggression).

For what it is worth, I would like to ask please for a calm, dispassionate discussion.

 

[CBDMed]

I don't think it's a swick then, in all respects it looks like a sip. A swick to me is a plant in a fabric bag sitting down on a media of some kind that is in a basin of water and as a result the rocks or perlite stay wet enough often enough that the roots can follow down into the water. A sip to me is defined as having the air gap.

@Emilya Green, to clarify, does this air gap have to be internal , meaning inside of a container of some kind?

 

[CBDMed]

I don't think it's a swick then, in all respects it looks like a sip. A swick to me is a plant in a fabric bag sitting down on a media of some kind that is in a basin of water and as a result the rocks or perlite stay wet enough often enough that the roots can follow down into the water. A sip to me is defined as having the air gap.

@Emilya Green, forgive me, I am just trying to help the process.
Earlier you defined a SIP as having an air gap (to stop roots).

Here, are you saying that a fabric bag (or other container) connected to a reservoir by an artificial wick CAN BE a SIP if the roots follow it down to the reservoir---and if not, then it is a SWICK???
Meaning, the definition of what is-and-is-not a SIP is dependent on what the roots do?
Thank you for your patience. I am just trying to understand in the hopes of establishing a standard definition.

(If this helps, it looks like SIP to me too, except that he is using an artificial wick, instead of a substrate or grow media wick. So the type of wick might be a point for disambiguation.)

 

[Emilya Green]

@Emilya Green, to clarify, does this air gap have to be internal , meaning inside of a container of some kind?

Yes the air gap has to be enforced whereas it's impossible to violate by filling up the reservoir. In my containers the gap or the ceiling of the reservoir where above the soil sits is hard set to 6 in. I however have a hole at the 5 inch mark where any extra water is drained away so it is impossible for my water level to rise up to where the soil is. The air gap is permanent and cannot be violated.

 

[CBDMed]

yes, but my question is whether you have ever filled it up to the top, so that the water actually makes contact with the medium above, even if for a moment.

Forgive my butt-inskiness! I am just trying to sort things out.
So a fixed air gap (or a "never disappearing" air gap) is an essential feature in your definition of SIP?

My SIPS do not allow that to happen. Even momentarily, contact between regions is enough for roots to follow the path downward. If you have always maintained an air gap, roots aren't supposed to be able to cross that.

So it seems like a fixed air gap is a key in your definition.
Does it have to be internal to the mechanism? (Or not really?)
I am just trying to understand.

 

[013]

now we gots to have a seperate wick club cuz a true wick ain’t necessarily a swick or a sip now is it??

Ladies Gentlemen, I will take heat on this one, it was defs meant as a joke tho….



Why can’t we all just hit a bong??

 

[CBDMed]

Guesswork? Isn't that what we are all doing to some extent? How exactly have I put anything in a poor light?

I am just one autistic boy with a brain injury, but I am not seeing anything wrong up to here.
I see some definitions that need clarified, but that is about all.

The problem is in our definitions.

Yes.

What exactly does SWICK stand for?

Yes, this would be very helpful to define.

Wick watering has been around for a long time. It may be one of our old members, SweetSue who coined the term SWICK, but we know what wick watering is, it has been done for a long time. It has been promoted as an easy way to water plants while on vacation, and a few did experiment with wicking here in the cannabis world. Try finding a definition of the word SWICK... it seems to all go back to the basic WICK watering system.

Since a SIP is using a wick, it is a form of wick watering... I will give you that side of it.
But here in this thread we have come to understand that a SIP uses a permanent 1 inch air gap that the roots have no incentive to cross. Roots follow water flow, and there is no water flow through a SIP 1 inch air gap. None.

So to my understanding a SIP is a WICK but every WICK is not a SIP if the rez water and the upper medium can ever touch each other, even momentarily. If you understand this differently, then please explain.

Again it seems like the fixed (internal?) air gap is the key to Emmie's definition? (Or am I missing it?)
It would be great if there could be a meeting of the minds on the concepts of whether or not an air gap has to be fixed, and whether or not it needs to be internal.
Thank you! I get confuzzed easily, and need lots of help keeping things straight.

 

[Emilya Green]

@Emilya Green, forgive me, I am just trying to help the process.
Earlier you defined a SIP as having an air gap (to stop roots).

Here, are you saying that a fabric bag (or other container) connected to a reservoir by an artificial wick CAN BE a SIP if the roots follow it down to the reservoir---and if not, then it is a SWICK???
Meaning, the definition of what is-and-is-not a SIP is dependent on what the roots do?
Thank you for your patience. I am just trying to understand in the hopes of establishing a standard definition.

(If this helps, it looks like SIP to me too, except that he is using an artificial wick, instead of a substrate or grow media wick. So the type of wick might be a point for disambiguation.)

The problem is that sip stands for sub irrigation planter, and by that literal definition sips and swips and wicks all fit in that definition. As I came into this I was instructed that it was all about the air gap, and that this was called sip. I considered the other bottom feeding methods where wicks were being used or a container was just set in a basin of water on top of a pile of perlite or some other medium, to be swicks as I had first learned about by reading SweetSue's work.

I still maintain my stance that a swick is a sip and a sip might be a swick, but that what we're doing with that all important 1-in air gap should have a different name. Maybe GapSip TurboSIP or something like that. Maybe that will help identify this unique method as something different than a simple wick, because I certainly don't want anybody arguing about who is doing what, which way is best or whatever.

 

[CBDMed]

Yeah, mostly semantics. I view a SIP as more in one self contained bucket with the reservoir as part of the container, while I view a swick as a setup where the reservoir is completely separate from the grow mix, but connected by an artifical fabric wick. The reservoir can be completely outside of the container.

But the wick (usually fabric but sometimes a bed of perlite) as the link who's sole function is to move water, is the distinguishing feature for me.

Emmie, would you take any exception to that?
Or would you bring any points of clarification to that?
A SIP is a self-contained unit with a fixed minimum air gap? While a SWICK is not self-contained, with no fixed air gap?
Or is that missing it?

 

[Emilya Green]

Forgive my butt-inskiness! I am just trying to sort things out.
So a fixed air gap (or a "never disappearing" air gap) is an essential feature in your definition of SIP?

So it seems like a fixed air gap is a key in your definition.
Does it have to be internal to the mechanism? (Or not really?)
I am just trying to understand.

Yes. I consider that air gap to be the special magic that turbo charges this method. But that then goes beyond the literal definition of sub irrigation planter. So the air gap is not a necessary function of a sip, but whatever we are doing here needs a new name that describes the importance of that air gap

 

[Emilya Green]

Emmie, would you take any exception to that?
Or would you bring any points of clarification to that?
A SIP is a self-contained unit with a fixed minimum air gap? While a SWICK is not self-contained, with no fixed air gap?
Or is that missing it?

This is where I get confused because my tub with a wickfoot qualifies as both, without mentioning the air gap. I have a separate reservoir that is not connected to the soil except through a wick foot which technically could be a cloth wick instead.