I've droughted them anywhere from 6-9 days, have yet to make the full 11
SIP Club - Getting Hydro/Coco Results In A Soil Based Medium
- Thread starter Azimuth
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Don't the roots grow into the clay balls? I would think they would just like in hydroponics. You already have balls blocking some air. Then if roots grow into the balls it would restric àir flow even more. Hmmm, I need to see the inside of the pot after harvest so I can see what the roots do.
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- #343
The roots will grow into the hydroton balls, but I ream the hole periodically to keep the access open and I have lots of vent holes in my reservoir container so thre are lots of ways for the air and water to get around. I do think your idea of a hose or pipe directly connecting the reservoir and the overflow hole is the best way, though.
Hasn't seemed to be an issue yet. Water seeks its own level so even if the roots do fill the space, simply watering a bit slower can work around whatever blockage they might cause.
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- #344
I would think a perlite Hempy at least would dry out more quickly and there seems to be an emphasis on a minimal amount of time involved as well for the effect to occur as is then indicated in Leaf Wilt Angle. But if the media dries out too quickly causing the correct LWA, was that enough time for the plant to recognize the threat and make the changes we want?
We kicked the idea about possible different indicators around a while back but I don't remember the conclusion if there was one.
Krissi has shown her 'Krissi Coralling' in many of her photos, where the trichomes extend from what is normal and twist around each other and we werwondering if that might be at least an alternative method to determine when to end the draught. It is the change of trichome effect that we're after after all and not necessarily the indicators like time or leaf angle.
Those seem to be coincident with the change we're after but simnply saying 7th week or 11 days, or some LWA or something else that are not necessarilty common to all canna plants seems overly simplistic. For example, is the seventh week the correct week for a long running sativa? How about a very short running indica?
So I think it's more about guidelines as we try to dial this in.
wouldn't get past 3 days in hempy.
the media dries too fast in hempy. you won't get past 3 days in flower. most times i'm going from fed to wilt within the same day. typical feeding schedules are every 24 hours in flower. you could go longer on a larger bucket, but it would be running off a larger res, which means not a true drought.
I know this all too well. We talk about it often on the droughting thread, trying to see how we can manipulate a drought in hempy to provide the same end results as in soil or Hydro.
Hydro has even been something that needs working on, perlite and other mediums, too, including coco. It's definitely something that we hope we can figure out but we need people to be testers I'm order to move forward passed this hump. If you are feeling lucky brother, please aid us in a little experiment(s)
Something that has been discussed was the possibility of shorter droughts but consecutive shorter droughts although we don't really think this will initiate the responses we seek while droughting long term. It's a process man it's a science and it is a learning game. Hopefully over time, we can figure this all out for the greater cause in making better medicine.
seems pretty much exclusive to a soil(less) type media. there are a few media specific ways of growing. some practices don't adapt between them. just shows the versatility of approaches.
Hi everyone, I have a few questions about the Arrow. I'm thinking about it a lot and I'd like to try it on one of the plants I'm starting to grow now. I'm a bit lazy about watering sometimes. Is it better to buy a self-watering planter or make one and when to make one and do you have any tips? And another question, what is used for the Arrow, coconut or clay, and which is better? Thanks everyone for the replies 
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- #349
He Kanno,Hi everyone, I have a few questions about the Arrow. I'm thinking about it a lot and I'd like to try it on one of the plants I'm starting to grow now. I'm a bit lazy about watering sometimes. Is it better to buy a self-watering planter or make one and when to make one and do you have any tips? And another question, what is used for the Arrow, coconut or clay, and which is better? Thanks everyone for the replies
The translator is muffing this one a bit. Not sure what you mean by 'arrow'. I'm thinking you mean the grow mix? The SIPs seem to work well whatever you are used to growing in and whatever you like for nutrients. It's really just a very good pot that makes good watering practices almost automatic.
At the beginning of this thread I showed some of the various options you can use, either purchasing commercial units if you can get them in your country or they are simple enough to build your own.
I had to build my own because my grow space is too small for the standard 5 gallon bucket. Page 2 of this thread is where I described the builds for a few different sizes. You'd be able to use the standard 5 gallon bucket in your tent so your options are wide open.
There are several options on the commercial units as well as several design options for diy. The key to any of them is the air gap, without which it is not a SIP. The air gap is what allows the mix to stay wetter than you would normally keep it without the risk of root rot and is what seems to supercharge the plant growth in these things.
Azi, he’s talking about coco coir & clay but I think maybe arrow means wick or foot…. but not sure
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- #351
Ah, ok. If so, it seems like a well mixed mix would work better than layering, though I don't think we've tested that yet. But it would be whatever your normal mix is.
The original SIP company , The Earth Box, recommends a peat moss / perlite mix, but whatever you use it's the same throughout the pot. There are no ropes or lamp wicks being used here or different media for the wick itself, rather the normal capillary action of the soil is what moves the moisture from the reservoir to most of the rest of the pot.
CBDMed
Well-Known Member
CBDMed
Well-Known Member
Second.
Please!
Pete Detroit
Well-Known Member
I put several holes in the side of rez, and large holes in the bottom (edge) And trust me - when the Res is over filled, the excess water POURS out the side drains...
Pete Detroit
Well-Known Member
In the "Tank" SIPS, I go around the bucket at the (approx) height of the Rez (I just eyeball it, not a measure). For the tankless builds (bucket in a tray) I put them just over the lip height of the Tray, will get some pix added later (they're not REAL visible, may need to hit 'em w/ a marker for contrast.)
Ok, no close up's of the Original Girl Tray SIP - she's sleeping - but similar to Tray SIP below, and you can NOT deny the result (First Grow, in sig, has full docco) Other than watering in Bloom Ferts, she's been feeding exclusively on the tray for about 10 weeks. Crazy, I know. "Should" not work, "Should" be nothing but root rot.. yet she's a Monster!! Pre / Post recent "lolly-popping"
Tray SIP, Cookie, Grow 2 in sig - you can see when I flipped her to SIP, and characteristic blast of growth. 10/26 - 11/06
Original Tank Res SIP (assembly docc'd several placed on this thread, as well as '2nd Grow' journal. The tag line for these ladies was "Oh, I think she found the Water" - they typically nominally DOUBLED overnight (or over two days_ when flipped from top water to SIP, either tank or tray system (exception being first grow die off, possible fert burn, and / or drowned roots, likely both, suspicion falls on low dirt level n the bucket - recent 'full' buckets in the 3.5 gal size seem to be holding up - but I'm watching them... CLOSELY. And NO veg ferts!!! {Veg Ferts and Killer Soil kill plants..)
I put several holes in the side of rez, and large holes in the bottom (edge) And trust me - when the Res is over filled, the excess water POURS out the side drains...
OK, I see your res. That goes inside your bucket. So when you fill your res, where does the overflow go ? Does it go outside the bucket or into the soil ? With the premanufactured ones the overflow leaves the bucket when overfilled.
I'm trying to figure out the differences in homemade & store bought for the most part & just how they work.
CBDMed
Well-Known Member
Hi everybody!
Just checking in.
I see many people are trying different strategies.
I am loving the discussion!
I am filling the rez, and then just keeping the surface damp with a sprayer UNTIL they break surface.
The Afghan Mass XXL are the newest arrivals. I have not watered them since they broke surface a few days ago.
Everyone seems to be happy so far. No signs of water wilt, or anything.
I guess we will see how they do long term.
Just checking in.
I see many people are trying different strategies.
I am loving the discussion!
I am filling the rez, and then just keeping the surface damp with a sprayer UNTIL they break surface.
The Afghan Mass XXL are the newest arrivals. I have not watered them since they broke surface a few days ago.
Everyone seems to be happy so far. No signs of water wilt, or anything.
I guess we will see how they do long term.
CBDMed
Well-Known Member
Hey @Buds Buddy !I keep seeing all these different SIP designs, but still don't understand 1/2 of them. I haven't seen any homemade SIP's that have the side of the res cut out like in this pic.
That cut out goes against the side of the bucket so the drainage hole is lined up with it to create the Air Gap.
I'm not seeing how anything can come out the drainage overflow hole without having this cut out. Sure, a hole at the Top of the res will still create an Air Gap via the Fill Tube; but the overflow hole would be surrounded by soil causing the res to drain slowly before ever getting that Air Gap. I figure I have to have missed something, somewhere. Otherwise, these are working more like Auto Pots than SIP's.
I'm going to build a Big Tote SIP here real soon that I'll veg for about 10 weeks or so. Maybe SCROG it. Planning on doing this once the Auto's I have going finish or get moved to the tent. My plan is to use a smaller Tub turned upside down for a res. My small tub res will be connected to my Grow Tub by either PVC or Rubber hoses to create the Overflow Hole & Air Gap. I'll use a PVC connector in the Top of my Res for the Fill tube so I get a nice tight fit. Sounds like a really simple & effective way to make a SIP to me. Now to find a proper fitting, strong res tub to make this with.
I have everything else on hand.
Great post!
If this helps, SOME of my drain holes are lined up, while others are not.
There does not seem to be a noticeable difference between the pots where the holes ARE lined up, and the pots where the holes are NOT lined up.
(In fact, the biggest girls have the holes not lined up!)
Next time I hope to line up the holes with said above-aforementioned Air Gap---but only because it is easier to double-check the water level vis-a-vis the drain hole (so I do not accidentally overfill).
(Aside: not that it is truly necessary to check the water level, because the little green bobbledy-sticks seem to work pretty good! Only, since I am on heating pads, I want to make sure that I don't overfill!)
It is great to see your homemade SIP!
I am looking forward to seeing pictures of @Pete Detroit 's "airpot-in-a-saucer" approach!
(Provided it is effective, I am all for simple and cheap!)
Pete Detroit
Well-Known Member
When I've overfilled, the "vents" look like spillways at Hoover dam - there's a REASON she still sits on a catch tray! (and near the floor drain)
Pete Detroit
Well-Known Member
Simple and Cheap was my main thought! I started the grow w/ "Traditional" buckets w/ holes in the bottom to let water out, and 1/2 way through Grateful Bud turned me on to the SIP concept. I'm all "sounds interesting, but you need buckets w/ solid bottoms - which these are NOT.. But MAYBE... Figured WTF, worst case scenario, go back to top water, and no harm done... Almost right. nearly killed one girl (Zilla! Oldest Auto EVER!! Like 16 ish weeks, an still not 'finished') But yeah, cheap, easy, and OMFG did it work on the plant in the 5 gal bucket... see pix above... so yeah.. ~$5 for a tray w/ ~3L capacity around the bucket... BONUS!!