Radogast 2 - Return of the Clones

I know this is kind of out of left field, but what did the power hike a few months back do to your light bill? I haven't had a light on in months, I am going to need more than my two 600s and I as much as I love my HPS I think I may go LED.
 
grimmreefer said:
I know this is kind of out of left field, but what did the power hike a few months back do to your light bill? I haven't had a light on in months, I am going to need more than my two 600s and I as much as I love my HPS I think I may go LED.
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I'm on vacation. I'll need to get back to you. My guess is my electric bill doubled.


Away on vacation, not counting buds consumed while trimming, dry weight for Giselle came in at 5.5oz, AK47 Gaby at 2.25 Oz.
I'll have final numbers on Thursday or Friday.
 
Radogast said:
I'm on vacation. I'll need to get back to you. My guess is my electric bill doubled.


Away on vacation, not counting buds consumed while trimming, dry weight for Giselle came in at 5.5oz, AK47 Gaby at 2.25 Oz.
I'll have final numbers on Thursday or Friday.
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:bravo:
 
94xjjohn said:
I'm sorry I got you guys hung up on 25%. That's the worst case!:sorry:

It's the same as "save up to 25%"....you will rarely save all 25%!!! And yes Rad, if we do everything perfectly with the clone, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference, but there would be one weather you could tell it or not!

And you have to treat the mother pretty badly to be less potent than her clones. Yes, operator error is a common "lack of control". Good luck duplicating everything exactly from grow to grow....I've never been able to do that in my short experience of 47 years as a Cali grower for all you folks.

Rad. you were explaining why you would use a clone since you do well with seeds. You said they were identical. That's just not true!

One has a tap root and the other doesn't. Not even close to identical !!!

Are you arguing that they will grow identically and the tap root makes no difference?

I'll take that bet as big as you'd like to make it!:high-five:

Most cloned food is first gen clone. Or close to it. That's why we have seed banks and not clone banks.:bravo:

Once again, I'm so sorry I wasn't able to make my point clearly without tangents and side arguments. My fault you big brains!:rofl:

:Namaste:

I'll stop posting here. I'm just distracting you. Good luck and great grows to you.
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I don't quite understand your arguments, they may be valid. Your key points tend to become hidden behind arrogance. Sorry we couldn't get along, but it seems we have incompatible world views. Great growing to you too.
 
Hey guys, high-five and make up. :high-five:

If we all had the same beliefs and agreed on everything what would be the point of discussing different strategies. Get your butt back over here John and act like the adult I know you are! Just because some of us don't get it doesn't mean it isn't so.
And Rado, ease up! We all tend to get a little pushy (I know I do) when we believe in our heart we're right and others don't get it.
 
Returned from vacation,

Final dry weight for Giselle is 6.5oz, Giselle is fluffy, but abundant, and gets me well stoned without couch lock.

AK47 Gaby is 2.5 oz. Gaby buds have small, tight bodies with curly auburn hair and generous sparkling trichomes.
Firing her up causes a fast hitting, heavy, happy high. She is my wife's Private Reserve ( plus the top cola of Hani being cured ) :)

Spider mites hit hard. I got the call Monday and they sprayed Monday with the last of the SNS217 Rosemary spray. I sprayed today with 1ml neem oil and Dr. Brauners Hemp Oil Castille soap mixed in a cup of water. The leaves in flower and early veg are pretty heavily spotted. 4 of the girls in late veg look only slightly affected (for some reason I didn't get a picture.)


Early Veg: I don't know if most of these are worth salvaging. We will see.

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Borderline Bowie: 6 weeks into flower, the mites slowed her down at a critical time but she will harvest 2 oz plus in 2-4 weeks.

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White Widow Bellatrix C2: 4 weeks into flower, her mother was only 6.7g. She will do much better or the genetic line ends.
(The beefy foliage and cola on the right is part of Big Bertha.)

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Breeder seed Big Bertha: 4 weeks of 12/12, 6 weeks of 11/13, 6 weeks of flower.
She was sampled by the relations tonight. She goes at least 2 more weeks. Expected yield 4 oz plus.

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Big Bertha's dry leaves are abandoned on the plant and she is unkempt.
Blame the relations, I told them to clean up their plant. Big dreams require follow through.
 
94xjjohn said:
Genetic mutation + potency loss = up to 25% difference. Compare a fourth gen clone to the seedling mother and you'll believe. Look it up! Agreed, peer reviewed science will be great.......you do it, I have precious little time.
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First off - Rado nice buds there buddy, congrats on the harvest!! Yummy good meds you have there! :thumb:

94:
Ahem... no such thing as genetic drift/potency loss(.) period.... mutation yes not 25% tho you're way way off. If there was genetic drift how come your still look like your grandfather and grandmother?? By the 10th generation with your proposed genetic drift we'd all look totally different than humans and that's with reproduction, cloning nothing changes the genes are all EXACTLY the same as parent. This has been studied very very closely at institutions such as Oxford U. and there are white papers to prove that out. Sorry for being a buzz kill.

Issues with cloning can be attributed to cloning methods and God knows what else was in the cloning medium that has an effect on outcome, as well as growing conditions. These can change the pheno type but not the genetics.

Show me the science behind genetic drift - I call "stoner science" on that one!

I've cloned my current run say 50-60 times or more ... I have one (possible)mutant plant the other 50-60 look exactly like the mother even the pheno type and the taste and the stone. Real world experience and there's science to back it up.

That said Rado get a ghetto cloner and an air pump. This works for me 100% no fussing with all the clone domes and misting what have you.

Here's the one I use:
Cloner for plants Deep Water Culture DWC five site compact cloning machine | eBay

Last run I went away on vacation for 17 days - took cuttings the night before we left, came home to 12-18" roots on all 5 clones and they are in VEG right now.

It's very very common for clones to yellow the leaves from the btm up - with no roots the plant is using up nutrients in the leaves much like they do in senescence (fall colors) to use to grow roots, once there are roots then the clone with start growing new leaves, that's when they go into soil.

Clones from the previous run - I clone from clones and do not keep plants around for anything but harvesting buds. Tried the mother route - too much work for me. Clones of clones of clones of clones:

DSCN04857.JPG


Here's what they are going to look like because that's where I got the clones from:
Don't believe me skim my last journal and see for yourself all the same all the way thru since the beginning.
These plants are about to be harvested - today or tomorrow why they are yellowing they are literally dying to be harvested.

DSCN048611.JPG
 
bobrown14 said:
Ahem... no such thing as genetic drift/potency loss(.) period.... mutation yes not 25% tho you're way way off. If there was genetic drift how come your still look like your grandfather and grandmother?? By the 10th generation with your proposed genetic drift we'd all look totally different than humans and that's with reproduction, cloning nothing changes the genes are all EXACTLY the same as parent. This has been studied very very closely at institutions such as Oxford U. and there are white papers to prove that out. Sorry for being a buzz kill.

Issues with cloning can be attributed to cloning methods and God knows what else was in the cloning medium that has an effect on outcome, as well as growing conditions. These can change the pheno type but not the genetics.

Show me the science behind genetic drift - I call "stoner science" on that one!

I've cloned my current run say 50-60 times or more ... I have one (possible)mutant plant the other 50-60 look exactly like the mother even the pheno type and the taste and the stone. Real world experience and there's science to back it up.
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Great post and testimony Mr. Brown.

Congrats Rado. How was vacation?
 
B A R said:
Great post and testimony Mr. Brown.

Congrats Rado. How was vacation?
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There is no answer to the vacation question that doesn't discuss spiritual and magical practices that make some folks nervous. So feel free to skip the answer and I in turn will make my answer a brief outline.

The trip was 6 hours by commuter rail and regional trains, followed by 31+ hours on the Amtrak Crescent in sleeper car from Penn Station, NY to New Orleans - stay in the French Quarter for 6 days, and return Amtrak in the reverse direction..

In fullfilment of a promise to a (non-catholic) saint, and other contributing factors, I ended up attending 3 different New Orleans Voodoo sessions, a Blessing of the Waters with 200 people from 4 continents aboard Mississippi Stern-wheeler Creole Queen, met an old man with a golden cane at the crossroads and made a contract with him (involving original art), joked with authors, artists, witches, pagans, doormen, pedicab drivers, warlocks, saints and witch doctors, ate fine dinners with escargot and turtle soup, ate at early morning diners with grits, aligator po-boys and cheeseburgers, went shopping for trinkets, trivets, rings, stones, a new hat, unique magical items, and generally tried to keep quiet, drink cognac from a flask, vape home-made kinnikinnick and not talk to spirits of the dead more than absolutely neccesary.

I enjoyed myself immensely :)

Even for me, it was an unusual vacation.
 
So basically you had one of those "once in a life time" balls. I'm proud of you.
 
Rad, the vacation sounds perfect in every way. I nearly swooned at the sleeper car. Ahhhh... Train travel.

That's a lot to pack into a brief vacation. Well done. :high-five:
 
I spent many hours in the garden room today,

I started out cleaning up the sad-leaf, mite-attacked plants in the Early Veg area.
After trimming away the mite destroyed leaf, I'll call this a heavy defoliate

Front views

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Top views

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now repeat for 7 more plants.....


I moved the T5 out from the walls, removed the perlite SWICK from the water catching tray, and moved the worm bin to make space for fabric pots on the floor - then moved the cloning dome and put fabric pots on the table.

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Two scrawny clones were moved into square 2l plastic pots. I bought 10 2l square pots yesterday as my new standard for starter pots.

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Overall, these plants are not happy, but they are old plants in starter pots. The mites damage is less than first feared.
 
bobrown14 said:
That said Rado get a ghetto cloner and an air pump. This works for me 100% no fussing with all the clone domes and misting what have you.

Here's the one I use:
Cloner for plants Deep Water Culture DWC five site compact cloning machine | eBay

Last run I went away on vacation for 17 days - took cuttings the night before we left, came home to 12-18" roots on all 5 clones and they are in VEG right now.
Click to expand...

I'm going that route. The price is right, why F around?
 
On the late Veg side of the room

Since I made space for large pots on the other side of the room, it's not so much a division of side-by-side. I want to stop holding plants in small pots waiting for a large pot to come free in the perpetual cycle. This space rearrangement supports that plan.

I moved the clone dome up on top of one of the lights, with a rolled up towel on one end of the tray. This is an idea from SoilGirl; to keep a pool of water evaporating but not touching the rockwool cubes on the high end of the tray.

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The biggest girls in late veg seem unafflicted with mite bites

Hawaiian Skunk Hani: At 22 inches, probably will go into flower in 2-3 weeks

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Unsexed breeder seed Janice: 18"

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Unsexed breeder seed Lachesis

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3 month old Snowcap and Girl Scout Cookies (left side) and 16 month old White Widow (center back) have mite ravaged leaves - but they look OK.

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So after hours in cleanup and moving things around, the garden room girls are doing better than I thought.
 
Looks good Rado, glad to hear the mite damage was less than expected. I have been hearing great thing about a product, I believe it is called "Green Clean" it is organic, and has worked on my buddies plants when nothing else would. It is not cheap. Like 20$ an oz. My buddy at the hydro shop blessed me with a freebie but I have not needed it yet.
 
grimmreefer said:
Looks good Rado, glad to hear the mite damage was less than expected. I have been hearing great thing about a product, I believe it is called "Green Clean" it is organic, and has worked on my buddies plants when nothing else would. It is not cheap. Like 20$ an oz. My buddy at the hydro shop blessed me with a freebie but I have not needed it yet.
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The squirrels knocked over one of my potted rosemary plants, and I have three 16" rosemary plants, so I think I will trim the downed plant and brew some rosemary tea for a spray. I hear rosemary are best harvested during spring and fall flowering, but they still have anti-mosquito aromas so should be effective now. The hydro store had 1 gallon of SNS217 concentrate (makes 6 gallons) for $255, which is better than the direct price from Sierra Natural Sciences. It's good stuff if I need it.
 
After sleeping on it, I decided to place HWS Hani C1 into the flowering room this morning. I did this 15 minutes before lights on, so I could get some flash pictures without the HPS yellow.

I moved breeder seed Janice into the front row where she is easier to shape and tucked AK47 Gaby reveg in the back right corner.

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The flower room layout is now:

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Clockwise from lower left:

Hawaiian Skunk Hani C1 (I see I need to do some trimming of lower branches)

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Borderline Bowie, 6 weeks (I need to pull more leaves since yesterday )

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White Widow Bellatrix C1, 4 weeks (Too wispy for my taste, her mother had a solid build)

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Breeder Seed Big Bertha, 6 weeks (She's a hairy beast. I'm going to talk to the relations about air flow)

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