Radogast 2 - Return of the Clones
- Thread starter Radogast
- Start date
lol, I didn't mean it like that, I meant I remember how you've explained how you were raised.I always forget how transparent I am.
- Thread starter
- #1,564
Hi Rad,
Keep in mind when comparing mother to clone, they are NOT the same exact genetics. You lose as much as 25% at each successive clone.
Peace....
I'm not buying 25% genetic drift from mother to clone.
It seems neither logical or borne out by experience.
Do you have anything to back up that statement? (Peer reviewed science would be nice.)
- Thread starter
- #1,565
In my 2 tests with Lime juice - The PH in my uncovered 5 gallon buckets reverted from 6.4 to 6.8 PH after 2-3 days and also after 1 day.
It doesn't make sense to me, and it may be something simple like the PH reverted in 5 minutes and I need to either use lemon juice or add more juice. I would prefer a natural occuring mild acid to bottles of PH down.
How much lemon juice to you use?
- Thread starter
- #1,566
Hey there .. 100 pages is long..
Since I went perpetual, I've been wondering when and how to end this thread. I still have one of the six clones from when this thread sarted. Within 2 months, I will either bloom her out or toss her. That might be a natural end to this thread.
Any word your way of street shortages of Cali weed?
Genetics... forgetit...
I'm with Rado on this one; Just recently started my clone game and the first wave has been as good or better than their mothers. I'm a firm believer in "the proof is in the evidence". All the science in the universe won't get me to believe this 25% mess when 2 clones had me higher than their mothers did.
I'm with Rado on this one; Just recently started my clone game and the first wave has been as good or better than their mothers. I'm a firm believer in "the proof is in the evidence". All the science in the universe won't get me to believe this 25% mess when 2 clones had me higher than their mothers did.
- Thread starter
- #1,568
- Thread starter
- #1,569
SoilGirl got back to me on her watering technique. She uses bigger rockwool cubes, but I think I can use her idea about watering by swishing water on the bottom of the cubes and then draining the pan. Or I'll buy bigger cubes. I hardly ever go to a hydroponics store these days, so it takes more effort to make incremental improvements.
No doubt but the others from that first wave were about the same as their corresponding mothers.
Genetic mutation + potency loss = up to 25% difference. Compare a fourth gen clone to the seedling mother and you'll believe. Look it up! Agreed, peer reviewed science will be great.......you do it, I have precious little time.
We will soon see my friend, the 3rd wave of some of my strains are just reaching puberty.
grimmreefer
Well-Known Member
Definitely no shortage but the price stays the same. I'm paying about 3 bills an oz. As far as the clones go I have never gone more than three generations but I haven't noticed a big difference. If anything it has been operator error.
- Thread starter
- #1,574
"Genetic Mutation" is a word that applies to sexual reproduction, not asexual reproduction by cuttings. What would I look up?
Every single known Aloe Vera plant and Safron flower on the planet is a "clone." They look the same now as when I was a kid.
Many, many plants(hops, grapes) have been "clone" propogated for centuries without losing "up to 25%" each cut.
Most named perennial cultivars (MacIntosh Apples, Mr Lincoln Roses) are "clone" cuttings.
The comparison aren't perfect, but I have a hard time believing Cannabis is so different.
- -
I believe my White Widow and Caramelicious clones are damaged by stress and/or epigenetic expressions due to stress. I see an improvement in generation 2 over generation 1 clones, but the gen 1 clones were so hammered it really isn't worth thr 4-5 generations to bring them back to the level of the original seeds. The genetics aren't that special and I can just plant old seeds from the purchase as the mother plants.
My 1st generation clone of recently harvested 'Hani' is looking better than the mother at her age. I credit that to improved environmentals.
Well You guys know me; always up for an experiment. We'll get to the bottom of this. It'll be my next experiment in NCG 3.5
It's going to take a few generations though.
It's going to take a few generations though.
- Thread starter
- #1,576
Nice to know the shortage is local. My wife has been paying 260-280 while my grow efforts were failing. The stuff selling in the town next door for $300-350 isn't as good.
A couple of those local providers dropped by to complain and were blaming it on California wildfires. They said Rhode Island was not selling. I now know not to listen to them
I'm really surprised there is a local shortage, but I've heard it from at least 5 sources. When the Illinois state troopers followed a semi-truck of weed hundreds of miles to the town next door (with the higher cost weed) and they did a multi-agency bust of about 5 dealers and associates, the market didn't skip a beat !
- Thread starter
- #1,577
I'll put my hat in the ring there too. I'm going to keep growing out clones of clones until I see an issue.
Radogast
B A R
B A R
MagicMediwana
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry I got you guys hung up on 25%. That's the worst case!
It's the same as "save up to 25%"....you will rarely save all 25%!!! And yes Rad, if we do everything perfectly with the clone, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference, but there would be one weather you could tell it or not!
And you have to treat the mother pretty badly to be less potent than her clones. Yes, operator error is a common "lack of control". Good luck duplicating everything exactly from grow to grow....I've never been able to do that in my short experience of 47 years as a Cali grower for all you folks.
Rad. you were explaining why you would use a clone since you do well with seeds. You said they were identical. That's just not true!
One has a tap root and the other doesn't. Not even close to identical !!!
Are you arguing that they will grow identically and the tap root makes no difference?
I'll take that bet as big as you'd like to make it!
Most cloned food is first gen clone. Or close to it. That's why we have seed banks and not clone banks.
Once again, I'm so sorry I wasn't able to make my point clearly without tangents and side arguments. My fault you big brains!
I'll stop posting here. I'm just distracting you. Good luck and great grows to you.
It's the same as "save up to 25%"....you will rarely save all 25%!!! And yes Rad, if we do everything perfectly with the clone, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference, but there would be one weather you could tell it or not!
And you have to treat the mother pretty badly to be less potent than her clones. Yes, operator error is a common "lack of control". Good luck duplicating everything exactly from grow to grow....I've never been able to do that in my short experience of 47 years as a Cali grower for all you folks.
Rad. you were explaining why you would use a clone since you do well with seeds. You said they were identical. That's just not true!
One has a tap root and the other doesn't. Not even close to identical !!!
Are you arguing that they will grow identically and the tap root makes no difference?
I'll take that bet as big as you'd like to make it!
Most cloned food is first gen clone. Or close to it. That's why we have seed banks and not clone banks.
Once again, I'm so sorry I wasn't able to make my point clearly without tangents and side arguments. My fault you big brains!
I'll stop posting here. I'm just distracting you. Good luck and great grows to you.