Radogast 2 - Return of the Clones

[94xjjohn]

With salts, I had to PH balance each and every watering. Yeah Organic!

 

[Radogast]

It's always helpful if the light illuminates the plants rather than the concrete walls. Well done Rad. Are you still having to pH balance? Well obviously you are, but I'm curious as to why. Your soil should be buffering for you. What am I missing?

My seedling soil / first clone soil is 3 parts perlite, 2 parts peat moss, 1 part compost. I've experimented with variations upon this mix, but they are all organic but ordinary potting soil mixes, in containers less than 1 gallon. As several months of bad vegging last winter indicate, I need to PHdown from the 6.8 PH of the town water supply.

With salts, I had to PH balance each and every watering. Yeah Organic!

I am not fertilizing with salts. My 7 &10 gal LOS pots don't use it. My seedling pots do without fertilizer (except for the compost.)

Iagree. My first grow and their clones was raised on BioBizz Organic nutrients (salts.) PH changes were constant required.

* * *

I took a trip around the yard, the west and north stream is 6.8, the pond is 6.4, the southern stream is 6.8, and the eastern brook is 6.8.
I scooped up a couple of gallons of pond water, complete with decaying leaves and duck weed, for emergency watering.

Returning to the house, I found 3ml of PH down left in the bottle so I was able to treat a 5-gal bucket of water. This water will be used on the seedlings while I am away this week.

* * *

Long term, I would like to eliminate the seedling soil and go from clone dome to the existing LOS pots. This would be the no-till standard SweetSue likes

I'm not ready to put seedlings directly into LOS soil, but will look into germinating into a soil-less plug before moving to the LOS pots.

This would strictly limit my genetics to 11 strains (I have 11 LOS pots.) I'm good with that limit but it makes for tighter timing in that my clone dome is not dialed in, so I can't keep a clone alive there much more than 15 days.

So this is a long term goal!

For now, I will do weak soil seedling mixes and try to grow out / weed out the early veg area to no more than the number of girls in late flower, and thus about to donate their pots for re-use. Today that would be 3 slots in early veg. I currently have 8 in early veg.

As I get better, the early veg area will get smaller. I'll need to move some things around so that large LOS pots can share T5 early veg lights when needed.


Or,





Or,

I can just keep using PHdown and nutrient starve my girls for long periods in early veg

 

[Radogast]

And Then There Were Three: Flower room update


With recent harvests there are only 3 girls left in the Flower Room (11/13 light)

The tallest girl in late veg (Hani C1) is ony 17" tall. I am aiming for a vigorous 20" tall.

Current boarders in the Flower Room

I lowered the light on 36" Borderline Bowie.

Her nugs look good for 5 weeks under 11/13.

49" Big Bertha is 9 1/2 weeks, one month under 12/12 where she just doubled height and width.
She didn't really flower until I set the lights to 11/13, so I am counting Big Bertha as 5 weeks of flower.

You know what, I get tired of yellow photos - I'm going Black and White


Borderline Bowie on the left

Newly harvested AK47 Gaby in the center, back, up high

Whispy looking White Widow Bellatrix on the left and Big Bertha on the right

I'm not happy with the strength of my clones. The original seeds all had strong branch structures. The first generation clones suffered and developed thin woody branches during months of failure to thrive (finally traced to a simple PH issue.) The SECOND generation of clones have not returned to robust branches. I'm 90% sure I will let these genetics die out and start some new White Widow and Caramelicious seeds.

If these weak branches develop big nugs, I will reconsider, but as of today, I have little hope.

 

[SweetSue]

Loving the black and white tones Rad. They made my heart skip a beat.

Cloning is not as simple as it would seem is it? Have you any idea what's giving you the most challenge? I need to at least try a couple this run, with Carnival if none else, and now I'm starting to pay closer attention. SoilGirl makes it look easy, doesn't she? But it seems so hit or miss with everyone. Graytail casually tosses them in water and he must dare them not to grow roots. His rates are spotty too.

Almost forgot, the stalk on Big Bertha is a beast! Well done mighty gardener.

 

[Radogast]

Loving the black and white tones Rad. They made my heart skip a beat.

Cloning is not as simple as it would seem is it? Have you any idea what's giving you the most challenge? I need to at least try a couple this run, with Carnival if none else, and now I'm starting to pay closer attention. SoilGirl makes it look easy, doesn't she? But it seems so hit or miss with everyone. Graytail casually tosses them in water and he must dare them not to grow roots. His rates are spotty too.

Almost forgot, the stalk on Big Bertha is a beast! Well done mighty gardener.

I believe my problem with cloning is the same as everything else - it's in the watering Overwatering clones is a bad thing.

 

[SweetSue]

Ok. I can see how easy that is to do. I fight the urge to water too soon all the time. It's such a relief when the pots hit the SWICK. SoilGirk seems to have something going with the aloe. Think including aloe into the formula might help youn?

 

[Radogast]

Ok. I can see how easy that is to do. I fight the urge to water too soon all the time. It's such a relief when the pots hit the SWICK. SoilGirk seems to have something going with the aloe. Think including aloe into the formula might help youn?

Not much, Aloe and rooting gel both seem effective. I don't have problems getting roots, I have problems keeping the plants green before and after rooting.

I was doing well on cloning, then I had assistants and mine worked and their's didn't. Then lots of things didn't work.
Taken by itself, I think my success rate for cloning, unassisited, is probably 60-70%.
However, my leaf damage is so high that they really slow down.

In the back of my mind, I wonder if I could ever remeber what I tried, what worked, and what didn't I'd probably have the answer. Counterproductively, my memory has never worked that way.

 

[SweetSue]

Then our hope lies in our ability to discern who among us has the greatest success rate using a system we're comfortable with and try our best to duplicate their success. Do you have any deserving candidates in mind?

 

[94xjjohn]

I've done many hundreds of clones and only lost a very few.... Forgive me if this is too basic:

Lower branch clones have more growth hormone (bigger, faster, fatter).
Cut aft 4 nodes w/clean razor, strip 4th and shave outer stalk slightly. Never touch stalk with your hand....sure death!
Split stalk in two an inch, again with clean razor, dip a few seconds in Clonex.
Put immediately in dirt hole or whatever you are using. EASY, don't force. Light is an enemy at this point, so don't dilly-dally around.
Soak in room temp, PH 6.0-6.5, clean filtered water. Mineral not RO. Enough in tray to keep wet 3 days. No nutes.
Cut all remaining leaves by 1/3.
Cover and keep warm abt 75-80 deg with slight opening in hood. No fans.
Don't open for at least 3 days.
Bright, close fluorescent light 24 hours to penetrate cover w/heavy condensation on inside. Watch temp.
If you use a heating matt under the tray, LOOK OUT, DON'T COOK THOSE BABIES! Biggest rookie mistake. Never over 80 deg.
Start slowly opening vent holes in hood after a week. Keep everything moist at all times. DON'T let them dry or they'll die.
After vent holes are wide open a couple of days and rapid growth, take hood off an hour and back on. Then longer until all off in a couple more days. Keep room above 60% humid.
They're off to the races! Give them a new bigger pot and there you go. Easy-peasy!

I'm sure I left something out so feel free to proof read and critique.

There are hundreds of ways to grow our fav babies with success. I'm sure others have taken this simple method to the Nth degree.

But if you do this, I bet you'll grow out 99 out of 100. I've thrown out hundreds of clones (murderer!) because this method is so prolific.

You did this and it didn't work?......take up sewing, you have a black thumb.

 

[94xjjohn]

Not much, Aloe and rooting gel both seem effective. I don't have problems getting roots, I have problems keeping the plants green before and after rooting.

I was doing well on cloning, then I had assistants and mine worked and their's didn't. Then lots of things didn't work.
Taken by itself, I think my success rate for cloning, unassisited, is probably 60-70%.
However, my leaf damage is so high that they really slow down.

In the back of my mind, I wonder if I could ever remeber what I tried, what worked, and what didn't I'd probably have the answer. Counterproductively, my memory has never worked that way.

Rado, you must cut the leafs of the clones by 1/3 or they will transpire too much moisture with no roots and kill the clone. Lots of leaf sprays to ready the clone before cutting to prevent drying too much. Luck!

 

[94xjjohn]

Loving the black and white tones Rad. They made my heart skip a beat.

Cloning is not as simple as it would seem is it? Have you any idea what's giving you the most challenge? I need to at least try a couple this run, with Carnival if none else, and now I'm starting to pay closer attention. SoilGirl makes it look easy, doesn't she? But it seems so hit or miss with everyone. Graytail casually tosses them in water and he must dare them not to grow roots. His rates are spotty too.

Almost forgot, the stalk on Big Bertha is a beast! Well done mighty gardener.

Yes, Sweetie, it is as simple as it would seem. My rates are over 99%, but I can't document that wild claim. I don't understand the problem, I guess?

I believe my problem with cloning is the same as everything else - it's in the watering Overwatering clones is a bad thing.

Overwatering is bad because they have no way to use it for awhile (rot, mold, drowning, suffocating), but they must be kept moist at all times. Never let them dry until you repot them out of the tray and dome or cloner.

Ps. My first successful multi-post!

 

[SweetSue]

 

[Sorenna]

Your grow space always impresses me, Radogast. It must feel pretty good to have some upside down and nearly ready, hanging over the ones that are yet to come. Id like that picture, personally.

If growing them from seed works for you, why do you clone at all? Im just curious. Im watching to see the reveg and I agree with SweetSue, Big Bertha's stalk is worth praising. Huge.

 

[Radogast]

Your grow space always impresses me, Radogast. It must feel pretty good to have some upside down and nearly ready, hanging over the ones that are yet to come. Id like that picture, personally.

I LOVE that picture. The flower room has two girls looking for a September harvest, one for an October harvest, one+ hanging inside to slow dry in 60% humidity, one outside to finish dry in 40% humidity, one+ being smoked in the jars. Outside the flower room we have girls on track for December, January, and February harvests.

It is a doubly good feeling as the street supply of medical quality bud has dried up. Massachusetts, New Hampshire and Rhode Island are scrambling to find good weed. Maine reportedly has a good supply but they are keeping the best homegrown to themselves. Our local supply claimed to be mostly California grown and folks are pointing towards wildfires.

For other's sake, I'm hoping this shortage all clears up as we reach the outdoor harvest months. For my wife, it feels good to have a supply of quality bud.

If growing them from seed works for you, why do you clone at all? Im just curious. Im watching to see the reveg and I agree with SweetSue, Big Bertha's stalk is worth praising. Huge.

I guess partly because I feel like a criminal ordering seeds via the internet, partly beause I like to see if I am doing better or worse with the exact same genetics as I grew before, and partly because I am emotionally attached to the girls I have tended and the experience of their buds. Letting the genetics end feels like saying goodye to a good friend.

 

[94xjjohn]

Hi Rad,

Keep in mind when comparing mother to clone, they are NOT the same exact genetics. You lose as much as 25% at each successive clone, plus only the seed mother has a tap root. Big difference. No clone ever matches the mother exactly. That's the main reason to use seeds.

The main reason to use clones is to avoid males. All clones (except hermies - stress/bad environ) of the mother will be girls. No wasted time if you aren't breeding.

Plus, when we take cuttings, the mother splits into two branches at that site, as we all know.

Peace....

 

[SweetSue]

I can certainly understand that sentiment Rad. We nurture and pamper them and pour our affection into them, enjoying the entire growing experience, and in one swift cut of the blade it's all over. I always have this empty spot in my heart every time I take one down. It's quickly filled by whatever comes along next, but you know what I mean.

I'm looking forward to getting my own perpetual running as smoothly. It feels much better when you have jars of reserve. A reserve that will serve you well as the MMJ community struggles with its own supply challenges.

Well done Rad. Your perseverance has paid off.

 

[grimmreefer]

Rado long time no see.
Everything looks great, 100 pages is a little much for me to go through right now but I got the jest of it. I'm a little south of you but I know all of the "street weed" on the south Shore and cape is from Cali. I'm just starting back up again and can't wait to have the constant cycle again.

 

[B A R]

I figured it out. One oz Bacardi + 3 oz cranberry juice. Drink while firing that cannabis up.

It worked out rather nicely.

Wow Sue! You really were sheltered. All old school smokers know there's nothing like a good drink and a joint. LOL


Congrats on your harvests Rado. About your high PH levels, have you tried using lime or lemon juice instead of ph down? It takes a lot less and contrary to popular belief it doesn't raise back up after sitting a day or two.

 

[SweetSue]

You have no idea BAR.

 

[B A R]

You have no idea BAR.

Yes I do. Don't forget I follow your journals.