Plant Alchemy With KNF: Korean Natural Farming And Jadam

Gee64 said:
Cool and thank you. I now have a place to start when I get time. I will start reading.
Have you ever tried a rooting potion?
Click to expand...
Nothing very scientific. My rooting game is weak, I think due to my environment. Once I get something more consistent I'll start trying different extracts to see if there is some combination better than others.

I'm trying a bubble mist cloner at present. I only need one rooted cutting every 6 weeks and so far I've managed to limp along meeting that test, but by no means is it satisfactory.
 
Azimuth said:
Nothing very scientific. My rooting game is weak, I think due to my environment. Once I get something more consistent I'll start trying different extracts to see if there is some combination better than others.

I'm trying a bubble mist cloner at present. I only need one rooted cutting every 6 weeks and so far I've managed to limp along meeting that test, but by no means is it satisfactory.
Click to expand...
When I root cuttings into coco cups I put all the cups in a milk crate and then put the milk crate into a clear garbage bag.

Mist the cuttings and the inside of the bag and make sure it doesn't touch the leaves.

Open it every day for air exchange. The high humidity allows for a better success rate. Mist every day too. I blow in to add CO2, dunno if it helps.

I also cut about 2/3 of each leaf off, leaving only stubby fingers to slow photosynthesis, then place them farther from the light than usual.

You want to slow photosynthesis down so you don't eat all the nutes in the leaves before the roots form. You don't want to grow foliage, just roots.

Spray the leaves every day with a water mist to help the plant stay hydrated and move nutes from the leaves to the new roots.

Don't feed anything or root development slows.

Usually in about 8-10 days the roots start to poke out the drain holes.



For bubble cloning I take the opposite approach. I cut bigger clones with an extra node of leaves and leave the leaves whole. I don't mist them at all.

I also use more light. Not super bright but more how you would place your plant if you still wanted it to grow, just slowly.

RH isn't a factor in bubble cloning. The only drawback to bubble cloning is that after 10-ish days in the cloner your still not in the ground so it takes a longer schedule from cutting to growing on its own but.... You start with bigger clones.

I also find that apex cola cuts, as in topping the mains, clone far more reliably in the bubble cloner.

Side branches from the clone branches root very well in the coco blend.

Both styles work well.

And then theres this, what I found to greatly increase my success. How you prep the clone before cutting it. I use it on both bubble cloning and coco cups.

I find it roots far better if you trim the leaves and branches from the lowest nodes, leaving about 1/8" of stubble. A bit longer is ok but no shorter. Not too long, under 1/4" or it starts to rot.

Then remove any sex parts like preflower sites. You want a clean stalk with the 1/8" nubbies only for what goes into the soil or bubble cloner.
20230201_135323.jpg


Then cut on a 45 degree angle just below the node. The roots will pop from the nubbie sites.

I find any kind of cloning powder, gel, or nothing at all will get you roots. I use Stimroot #2 but any brand works.

When my stimroot runs out I will grab a 420 sponsored brand, Probably Dr Azi's magic rooting potion.
 
Thanks @Gee64 . That's an interesting trick with the lower node leaf stubble. I'll have to try that next round.
 
Highya Azimuth,

I remember in my travels that a previous member mentioned about environment. There's no amount of nutrients will make up for a not right environment. When I was cloning, I couldn't get the temps up high enough (usually between 62-66 degrees F) to get consistent clones. I think it was the temp that was the problem. Just mentioning, in case you have a similar problem. Happy Smokin'
 
Bode said:
Highya Azimuth,

I remember in my travels that a previous member mentioned about environment. There's no amount of nutrients will make up for a not right environment. When I was cloning, I couldn't get the temps up high enough (usually between 62-66 degrees F) to get consistent clones. I think it was the temp that was the problem. Just mentioning, in case you have a similar problem. Happy Smokin'
Click to expand...
Thanks, @Bode . My environment is almost certainly the issue. Temps are cool but I have a reptile mat for the bottoms, and humidity is quite low so I've been using a pair of clear shoe boxes to enclose my solo cups and then trying to wean them out of it over time.

So, this round I'm trying a bubble mist cloner that should work better with both constraints.

I get enough to keep the machine going but not enough to be selective. I'll get it, just need to find the magic combination that gets it done.
 
Azimuth said:
Thanks, @Bode . My environment is almost certainly the issue. Temps are cool but I have a reptile mat for the bottoms, and humidity is quite low so I've been using a pair of clear shoe boxes to enclose my solo cups and then trying to wean them out of it over time.

So, this round I'm trying a bubble mist cloner that should work better with both constraints.

I get enough to keep the machine going but not enough to be selective. I'll get it, just need to find the magic combination that gets it done.
Click to expand...
With bubble cloners its messy, but worth the shower, to turn it on with all discs inserted and 1 by 1 take discs out and see the spray pattern underneath the disc.

Spots with too little or too much spray don't seem to work as well.

Also don't let the bottoms of the clones get below spray nozzle height when inserting them.

And of course check every jet to make sure it isn't partly plugged by pond scum.
 
Gee64 said:
Oh I think your base is pretty good yup🤣

Thats a beauty carbon source. Lots of horsepower in there.

Your potions should show fairly quick effects.

Have you soil ph'd your fully finished mold?

Does it look like rich soil or still a bit more like a leaf mulch?
Click to expand...
@Gee64 , Since leaf mold is about half of my grow mix, can I assume it will last thru multiple grows as a carbon source with a bit of a top up to replace that which has been used between rounds? I can't imagine all of that carbon is used up in a matter of a few weeks. (?)

After gathering the fresh leaves and breaking them down by running them over a couple of times with my mower and then moistening them well, I leave them be for 2-3 years during which the leaf matter turns a dark brown and the leaves themselves break into smaller and smaller pieces. I then further screen them thru a 1/2" screen to get everything to a relatively consistent size. During that time clumps will form, held together by the fine white threads of fungus.

Left longer, they would further break down into a very fine humus type texture, but I don't make enough yet for it to last that long in the barrels.
 
Gee64 said:
With bubble cloners its messy, but worth the shower, to turn it on with all discs inserted and 1 by 1 take discs out and see the spray pattern underneath the disc.

Spots with too little or too much spray don't seem to work as well.

Also don't let the bottoms of the clones get below spray nozzle height when inserting them.

And of course check every jet to make sure it isn't partly plugged by pond scum.
Click to expand...
I'm using two small air stones with an air pump in a 1L container and keep the stems suspended above the water line. I check the stems every day to be sure they stay wet. Time will tell.
 
Azimuth said:
@Gee64 , Since leaf mold is about half of my grow mix, can I assume it will last thru multiple grows as a carbon source with a bit of a top up to replace that which has been used between rounds? I can't imagine all of that carbon is used up in a matter of a few weeks. (?)

After gathering the fresh leaves and breaking them down by running them over a couple of times with my mower and then moistening them well, I leave them be for 2-3 years during which the leaf matter turns a dark brown and the leaves themselves break into smaller and smaller pieces. I then further screen them thru a 1/2" screen to get everything to a relatively consistent size. During that time clumps will form, held together by the fine white threads of fungus.

Left longer, they would further break down into a very fine humus type texture, but I don't make enough yet for it to last that long in the barrels.
Click to expand...
That humus type texture is actually what you are looking for.

Prior to that stage the leaf goes from being a leaf to full decomposition (becoming compost).

The process of decomposition, when decomposing a very robust carbon source, such as leaves (my personal favorite carbon source), takes a long time, but produces useable carbon along the way.

The problem is that it also requires a steady source of nitrogen as it decomposes.

Outdoors the soil surface area is unlimited so air (78% nitrogen) can be sucked in from anywhere to help supply that nitrogen, but in a pot the surface area is small so a huge portion of the atmospheric intake feed of nitrogen gets gobbled up with that decomposition.

If you add nitrogen rich amendments, such as blood meal, to your pots the reaction with that undecomposed carbon is violent and immediate, producing heat and extreme microbial activity (hot composting).

So you need to be careful, and as your leaf mold supply increases your best bet is the 2 year old finished stuff, but for 1 grow only,

so to answer your question YES, it will get better, then perfect, then gone. Watch your nitrogen for deficiency and heat.

Everything is better if its fully composted before adding it in. It reduces variables and tail-chasing.

Now all that being said, microbes enjoy fresh uncomposted carbon and need it to live. So does fungus.

Having some available carbon (I use coco and its 33.3% of my mix prior to adding perlite) is essential.

For you adding in say 12-18 month old leaf matter, or whatever you think is half-digested, is a fantastic way to replace that coco I use.

Just remember how amendment added nitrogen will react in the soil, AND you need good atmospheric nitrogen to the roots. If your middle-aged leaf matter is too young you may experience a nitro deficiency in your plants.

Carbon, like calcium, has 2 places.

It is essential to composting, and its essential in the soil for microbes to eat to add the C in their exhales of CO2.

The plants want that CO2 for their carbon.

Its the carbon cycle.

Watch your nitrogen inputs to the pots.

Get this right and leaves work better than coco. Coco just works really well and is clean and easy and sterile.
 
Azimuth said:
I'm using two small air stones with an air pump in a 1L container and keep the stems suspended above the water line. I check the stems every day to be sure they stay wet. Time will tell.
Click to expand...
I'm not familiar with that technique, mine sprays mist from jets in a manifold, up at the stalks.

Im sure if they are always lightly dripping wet it will work fine, but still check for dry spots. They are real lol and clones don't work very well in them.
 
Gee64 said:
I'm not familiar with that technique, mine sprays mist from jets in a manifold, up at the stalks.

Im sure if they are always lightly dripping wet it will work fine, but still check for dry spots. They are real lol and clones don't work very well in them.
Click to expand...
Another thing about carbon is that it has fantastic water holding capabilities, so high carbon means wet soil longer.

Keep that in your mind in your mixes.

I cut my carbon (coco) 1:1 with perlite when I add it to balance air and water, so if my mix is 1/3 ewc, 1/3 used soil, 1/3 coco, i would also add perlite to that. So 9 gals of mix ends up at 12 gals after perlite is added.

You can find your own sweet spot for your carbon density and pot size.
 
My leaf mold is minimum 2 years old and dark and crumbly, but not quite the humus texture that would be ideal.

I use my own 8 part soil mix:
3P Aged Leaf Mold
1P Used Soil
2P Perlite or Pumice
1P Sand
1P Biochar steeped in Worm Castings JLF

And to that I add in my bug mix (meals of crustacean, neem, karanja) and my mineral mix (azomite, gypsum, oyster shell, and dusts of sand, stone and char).

The mix seems to have a good texture, and both drains and wicks well. I've been using it now for a few rounds and can produce all but the perlite and the amendments on my own.
 
Highya Azimuth, Gee, guys,

I can vouch for the nitrogen use! I mulch with various organic leaves through planting to harvest. I do use bloodmeal to make up for nitrogen use to decompose the mulch, and feed the cannabis plants. It's never bothered (that I know of) but only use once during veg, and once in flower stage. I use other (KNF liquid ferts, and compost tea) organic supplements to get through to harvest. I want to use fish ferts instead of bloodmeal this year. Happy Smokin'
 
Azimuth said:
My leaf mold is minimum 2 years old and dark and crumbly, but not quite the humus texture that would be ideal.

I use my own 8 part soil mix:
3P Aged Leaf Mold
1P Used Soil
2P Perlite or Pumice
1P Sand
1P Biochar steeped in Worm Castings JLF

And to that I add in my bug mix (meals of crustacean, neem, karanja) and my mineral mix (azomite, oyster shell, and dusts of sand, stone and char).

The mix seems to have a good texture, and both drains and wicks well. I've been using it now for a few rounds and can produce all but the perlite and the amendments on my own.
Click to expand...
That sounds like a very good mix. Have you tried it with 3 parts perlite?
 
Bode said:
Highya Azimuth, Gee, guys,

I can vouch for the nitrogen use! I mulch with various organic leaves through planting to harvest. I do use bloodmeal to make up for nitrogen use to decompose the mulch, and feed the cannabis plants. It's never bothered (that I know of) but only use once during veg, and once in flower stage. I use other (KNF liquid ferts, and compost tea) organic supplements to get through to harvest. I want to use fish ferts instead of bloodmeal this year. Happy Smokin'
Click to expand...
I like fish ferts👍 Slow and steady.
 
Azimuth said:
My leaf mold is minimum 2 years old and dark and crumbly, but not quite the humus texture that would be ideal.

I use my own 8 part soil mix:
3P Aged Leaf Mold
1P Used Soil
2P Perlite or Pumice
1P Sand
1P Biochar steeped in Worm Castings JLF

And to that I add in my bug mix (meals of crustacean, neem, karanja) and my mineral mix (azomite, oyster shell, and dusts of sand, stone and char).

The mix seems to have a good texture, and both drains and wicks well. I've been using it now for a few rounds and can produce all but the perlite and the amendments on my own.
Click to expand...
What kind of sand? Is it high in anything?
 
Gee64 said:
That sounds like a very good mix. Have you tried it with 3 parts perlite?
Click to expand...
No. I use sand as the third part for the silica as well as the drainage properties.

And the biochar I'd imagine acts as a drainage input as well as I make it in very small chunks.
 
Gee64 said:
What kind of sand? Is it high in anything?
Click to expand...
Nothing special, I use contractor sand used for mixing concrete. It has a pretty good mix of particle sizes which I like as opposed to pool filter or sandbox sand which are mostly fines.
 
Back
Top Bottom