Plant Alchemy With KNF: Korean Natural Farming And Jadam

[Azimuth]

I've been digging through your posts trying to get the big picture on how this experiment is going, unfortunately I have a hard time aligning your progress posts to this particular plant. How is it going with leaf mold at the bottom? Have you tried feeding into the reservoir and do you feel it successful?

Yeah, this is more of an experiments thread than a grow journal. I typically rotate between 5 or so strains and apply successful results from experiments to the current plant. I grow with a perpetual harvest so there are always plants at various stages of growth.

To answer your question, I replaced CSPM (Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss) with my aged leaf mold in a mix of my own design and am very pleased with it. It is the base of the mix though, not confined to the bottom layer.

I had experimented with using hydroton clay balls in the reservoir of my SIPs which worked great, except for the fact that my KNF and Jadam extracts were unsuccessful with that set-up and I really have no idea why. I recently began trialing a set-up that has my normal mix all the way down into the reservoir to see if I got any off smells indicating rotting in thereservoir area but so far haven't noticed any. So, I recently potted up a new plant into this new set-up and am planning on feeding through the reservoir to see if it will work better. i suspect it will since there will be active micobes at the same level as the water/nutes but don't know yet as the plant is just coming out of its transition phase.

 

[nick5311]

Yeah, this is more of an experiments thread than a grow journal. I typically rotate between 5 or so strains and apply successful results from experiments to the current plant. I grow with a perpetual harvest so there are always plants at various stages of growth.

To answer your question, I replaced CSPM (Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss) with my aged leaf mold in a mix of my own design and am very pleased with it. It is the base of the mix though, not confined to the bottom layer.

I had experimented with using hydroton clay balls in the reservoir of my SIPs which worked great, except for the fact that my KNF and Jadam extracts were unsuccessful with that set-up and I really have no idea why. I recently began trialing a set-up that has my normal mix all the way down into the reservoir to see if I got any off smells indicating rotting in thereservoir area but so far haven't noticed any. So, I recently potted up a new plant into this new set-up and am planning on feeding through the reservoir to see if it will work better. i suspect it will since there will be active micobes at the same level as the water/nutes but don't know yet as the plant is just coming out of its transition phase.

thanks for the summary, helps me make sense of your posts in total. I've been brewing some JLF for a few weeks, planning on using it to charge some biochar (cheating for now, buying some lump charcoal from the store for the test). Right now I have a peat based soilless mix for my seedlings but I'm working towards trying something that's primarily biochar and leaf mold/soil to see how that goes. I love experimenting!

 

[Azimuth]

thanks for the summary, helps me make sense of your posts in total. I've been brewing some JLF for a few weeks, planning on using it to charge some biochar (cheating for now, buying some lump charcoal from the store for the test). Right now I have a peat based soilless mix for my seedlings but I'm working towards trying something that's primarily biochar and leaf mold/soil to see how that goes. I love experimenting!

Make sure you crush down the store bot lump charcoal. I smash it up and run it through a colander so I get fairly equal size pieces. The small pieces have way more availble space for microbes than a similar volume in large chunks.

 

[CBDMed]

Ah, ok. I didn't catch his new avatar. Your post makes more sense now. Maybe it's me that needs to back away....

R.O.F.L....

ResDog was responding to a post in which I described how I used my LAB, one of which was to help clear clogged drains. He "saw my bet and raised me" with his industrial version of the clogged pipe solution. I'm actually going to look at that becasue I think the additional enzymes he describes could really boost the effectiveness.

Ok, cool! I appreciate how you make it easy to understand things (if I can remember to read them correctly! Haha!)
I can get that one shipped here, so I am very interested to hear your take.

 

[ReservoirDog]

Hey Az

That seems very important! Thanks, RezDog!
(By the way, did Lady Madonna get an anti-tank missile?? Haha. Or what happened?)

Also, @Azimuth , is there any way you could please translate into Noob?
(I checked Google Translate and DeepL, but they don't offer that service, haha.)

By the way, did Lady Madonna get an anti-tank missile?? Haha. Or what happened?)

Haha. My last avatar was the "LGBTQ Ally" flag, this is my "Ukraine Ally" flag. I'm not bothered whether people think I'm gay, or for that matter, Ukrainian. That's the point of being a strong ally.

is there any way you could please translate into Noob?

Honestly, ignoring the whole post is in your best interest. I'm playing with fire there.

How are you doing ELG? My best to you and yours.

 

[Azimuth]

To answer your question, I replaced CSPM (Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss) with my aged leaf mold in a mix of my own design and am very pleased with it. It is the base of the mix though, not confined to the bottom layer.

@nick5311, after re-reading this post I thought I should clarify what I meant by "base" as I can see where it would be confusing.

I'm using the leaf mold as the base (or main) ingredient in my mix to which I add other things, and not just "at the base" of my pots. Apologies that that was not as clearly worded as it could have been originally.

 

[CBDMed]

Haha. My last avatar was the "LGBTQ Ally" flag, this is my "Ukraine Ally" flag. I'm not bothered whether people think I'm gay, or for that matter, Ukrainian. That's the point of being a strong ally.

Honestly, ignoring the whole post is in your best interest. I'm playing with fire there.

Hahaha!
Ok, thanks!!
I will wait for Azi to review it, and post his recommendations.

How are you doing ELG? My best to you and yours.

Thanks! Doing well! Still learning the basics of canna. @Azimuth, @InTheShed , @cbdhemp808 and some others are keeping me from killing my plants!
We are scheduled to close on the property this week, and then we can get ready to build. Other than super busy, all is well and blessed.
I hope things are going well for you and yours also.

 

[CBDMed]

@nick5311, after re-reading this post I thought I should clarify what I meant by "base" as I can see where it would be confusing.

I'm using the leaf mold as the base (or main) ingredient in my mix to which I add other things, and not just "at the base" of my pots. Apologies that that was not as clearly worded as it could have been originally.

Hi Azi.
Sorry, I just want to be clear: you are using leaf mold in SIPs?
And are there any problems, or any issues with that?
Thanks.

 

[Azimuth]

A bit of an update on the plants.

I've got roots on day 14 for my ACDC cutting so the CBD grow is a go. It's Day 17 or 18 and no other roots showing on any of the other cuttings so I'll need to address my clone game. I routinely get enough to keep the perpetual grow going but I'm not getting a very high percentage of cuts to strike.

The CBG plant is ending week 3 of flower and a P deficiency is coming on hot and heavy. I noticed the beginnings of it 4 days ago but then had house guests for Thanksgiving and I wasn't able to check on the plants for three days. So today I gave her some of my Fruit and Flower Jadam mix and well see if that can address the issue. I haven't been giving it to her preventatively as I wanted to see how my worm castings would do, but the SIPs are bigger, stronger plants and clearly need more of a boost than I'm used to. I'll see how this feeding does and then determine how often I'll repeat. Probably at least weekly.

I also noticed the beginning of both mites and thrips on her so gave her a spray down with Safer's Soap and a top dressing of my bug mix which I think I'll start adding every other week and alternate with additional castings in the off week.

The NL5 is ending week three in the SIP and the robust growth and stronger stems is kicking in. Three more weeks and then it will get flipped and the ACDC will take its place in the on deck circle.

 

[Azimuth]

Hi Azi.
Sorry, I just want to be clear: you are using leaf mold in SIPs?
And are there any problems, or any issues with that?
Thanks.

I am. My NL5 plant is in week 3 and is the first to have my grow mix all the way to the bottom of the bucket. In all of my previous rounds I had hydroton clay balls covering the bottom up to a level above the overflow hole which, of course, held my mix out of the water.

So far so good. I want to test whether I can have success feeding my Jadam nutes thru the reservoir now that I have soil and therefore microbes down at that level. But first I'll feed them from above to hopefully clear the P deficiency I've got now.

 

[Azimuth]

It's actually got a bit of clawing going on so have some excess nitrogen, but I'm OK with that at this point as I want to see how far it can go with little to no other nutes other than the castings

It turns out that I think I was misreading a building P deficiency as an N excess.

In his book "Marijuana Garden Saver," Ed Rosenthal describes the symptoms of a P deficiency as "First the leaves turn dark green and become weak. Then they develop dull blue or purple hues. The edges of the leaves turn tan/brown and curl downward as the deficiency works it's way inward. The lower leaves turn yellow and die. The purpling can also be seen on stems and branches exposed to cool/cold temperatures. "

I didn't notice all those things but I did note the dark green leaves and the curling downward which I mistook apparently for an N toxicity, and also the purpling of the stems.

I had just added a big top dressing of worm castings which I thought might be the culprit.

But several things should have clued me in to think more deeply on the matter.

First, I routinely add worm castings and know them to be a slow release type nute without any sign of toxicity, so why should this time be any different?

Second, I had recently flipped to flower and was showing pistils on a strain that is unusually robust and being grown in a SIP which makes them that much stronger, so a call for more flowering nutes should have been an easy takeaway.

In my defense, I've not had this issue before and I also wanted to see how far I could get on just my castings, although these are my 1.0 version without all the extra amendments I have begun to add.

So, a good lesson learned and I now have the opportunity to see if I can resolve the issue with my various KNF and Jadam concoctions.

Assuming I can, I'll also start experimenting with adding them directly to the reservoir now that I have soil and microbes down at that level.

 

[Azimuth]

Highya Azimuth,

IO'm sure the LAB microbes died off a short time (days) after you started. Do you remember when Cho Jr. said to use the JADAM microbe solution when the ring of bubbles was almost gone. That the microbes wouldn't live a day more? I'm guessing that's what happened. Happy Smokin'

That's an interesting thought. Master Cho was referencing leaf mold microbes but it would make sense that the LAB might work the same way.

But, if so, why wouldn't the castings microbes also die off quickly?

The results of the LAB jar certainly supports that conclusion. If they did die off shortly after starting that would explain why those contents still look mostly the same as when I started.

But, regardless, the castings jar did do its thing and produced my Jadam ferment so I'll continue to go that route.

 

[Bode]

Highya Azimuth,

That's a great question. On speculation, LAB is a particular kind of microbe. The microbes in worm castings are very different. Maybe that's the answer. Microbes in my compost pile may die all the time, but more must be spawned to keep the braking down of waste continuing. I know when I put leftover JADAM's Microbe Solution on the compost pile, increases the pace of composting!
Incidently, Master Cho's son is the one who grows microbes in a bucket. I'm guessing the microbes are similar to the ones in your worm casting, but without something to feed on (as in the bucket of microbes method), they die.
I'm reading through (slowly) through the SIP thread. It's very interesting. I have an application and am trying to decide how to build an SIP outdoors. One thing to address, it must be taken down before winter. I want to grow lettuce for salads, and cucumbers, also for salads. Julie won't appreciate 5 gal. buckets here and there. I'm leaning towards a 2 ft. by 6 ft planting box with a reservoir on the bottom, 4" drainage, cloth, and leaf mold as the main ingredient in the medium. Any advice there? I used to love experiments. I don't so much anymore, because I don't need to. Just like to glean info from our 420 Magazine. Happy Smokin'

 

[Azimuth]

On speculation, LAB is a particular kind of microbe. The microbes in worm castings are very different. Maybe that's the answer.

I think that's right. My speculation is that the bottom of my worm bin is pretty mucky and therefore more anaerobic than leaf mold soil is and therefore I probably have microbes used to those conditions that happily chug along. Plus they're mostly microbes used to breaking down organic materials which is what I want them doing in my Jadam jars.

Leaf mold soil microbes, on the other hand are more aerobic and used to doing other things as well so maybe not as concentrated in the ones for digesting materials.

Whatever it is, the castings have worked the best for me in many of my experiments so I'm doing more of what works and less of what ain't!

I'm reading through (slowly) through the SIP thread. It's very interesting. I have an application and am trying to decide how to build an SIP outdoors.

I did my vegetables that way this season and used the large black totes from Home Depot. They're rectangle so using 4" drainage pipe laid side by side worked great as I detailed on page two of the #SIP Club thread.

Really simple build. I did dig out the soil and brought the container inside for the winter as I'd like to get as many seasons out of it as I can. With the wet soil and water in the pipes it's just way too heavy to move as is though without equipment (or a couple of young, strong backs).

I'm leaning towards a 2 ft. by 6 ft planting box with a reservoir on the bottom, 4" drainage, cloth, and leaf mold as the main ingredient in the medium. Any advice there?

I use leaf mold as about 50% of my mix and then add perlite, sand, worm castings, etc to give me a good texture. Leaf mold by itself may be too dense by itself as it settles. Don't really know, but I can tell you my mix has worked great for both my veggies and my canna plants.

I've wanted to get some experience with it before recommending it to others since it's my own design. But I did some experiments Here where I compared leaf mold to CSPM and coco so I was comfortable making the leap. And am very glad I did.

I don't think the weed cloth is even necessary. Just fill in and pack well the soil right around the drainage pipes (and get the perforated kind) and then full the rest of the planter with your mix not so densely packed and it will wick fine. If you use weed cloth the fine roots will just grow into it and be a pain to take down at the end of the season. Plus it's totally not necessary as the pipes do a good job separating the soil from the water.

 

[Bode]

Highya Azimuth,

I'll have to check that out. When I went through the thread, I skipped some of the pots/builds, thinking I wouldn't use them. Anyways, using totes (strong, good ones) will work. A fun experiment might get some lettuce, and cukes to boot! Thanks, Az!

I wanted to put the outdoor planter by the front door, so wanted something nice. However, I can put planters down back by the cellar door. She won't fuss about that, lol. So, I think 2 bins, one lettuce, one cukes. Probably wouldn't need a lot of dirt over the resevoir? Yeah, I have a lot to learn, and that's why most of are us are here!! Happy Smokin'

 

[Azimuth]

Bode, on page two of the #SIP Club thread I detailed the storage tote build in the design post.

And, Krissi grows in normal looking pots that are actually SIPs, so maybe something like that might be an easier sell for the front door.

 

[Azimuth]

Yesterday I added some of my JLF to the reservoirs of both my initial tester plant as well as the NL5 currently in the on-deck circle. The NL5 is the first of my 2G bucket SIPs with the soil all the way down to the bottom and I'm hoping that the resident microbes will be able to make use of the JLF. In my previous versions I had hydroton clay balls down at the reservoir level holding the soil above the water and my extracts proved completely ineffective.

My first concern with the organic mix all the way to the bottom was having it go anaerobic in wet soggy conditions and start to rot. So far, it's been a few weeks and I haven't noticed any issues so I'm hopeful.

For the SIP in flower with the P deficiency I'm just watering from above since that one had hydroton holding the soil above the water.

 

[scottreid1966]

Hi Azi! Hope all is well, bud.
I have water that is very filtered from a friend. Goes through a bunch of stuff and was wondering if it is considered dechlorinated, also. I foolishly dumped the last of my rain-water I had in a garbage can out back but it was starting to freeze.

 

[Azimuth]

I have water that is very filtered from a friend. Goes through a bunch of stuff and was wondering if it is considered dechlorinated, also.

Probably is. The clorine will off gas over a day or so if left exposed to the air, so you can literally fill an open bucket one day out of the tap and use it the next.

That does not apply, however, to chloramine which more municipalities are using as well. For that you need to add some crushed Vitamin C to the water which will preciptate them out.

I foolishly dumped the last of my rain-water I had in a garbage can out back but it was starting to freeze.

Have I taught you nothing??

 

[Azimuth]

12/15 and moving day in Aziland.

I'm trying to reset my perpetual grow after changing from three plants in flower with a harvest every month, to two plants and a harvest every 6 weeks, so my Northern Lights 5 got promoted to flower after about 6 weeks in veg, and my ACDC CBD clone got up-potted into a 2G SIP to begin its veg cycle.

I've been having a bit of a P problem about 3 weeks into flower with these SIPS so I'm trying something different with these latest two. My soil seems to work great for about 6 weeks before it runs out of gas which wasn't much of a problem before I switched to SIPs since I used to up-pot right before flip with fresh soil, but since switching I've been vegging in the final container and just top dressing with new amendments at pot-up.

So with the NL5 I started in on the Jadam nutes about 2 weeks ago and with the ACDC I'll give it the nutes every week to try to keep the nutrient battery topped off and  hopefully I can postpone the P issues for at least 2-3 extra weeks, but well see how it works.

The NL5 got full Veg nutes plus half strength Fruit & Flower with which I pretty much filled the reservoir. It replaces the last one that had mite and thrip issues so I'll try to pay close attention this round.

For the ACDC I top dressed with my bug mix, some worm castings, and a mulch layer of my aged leaf mold, and misted everything down to get things started. I put just a little water in the reservoir but probably won't end up adding any more for another week or two to let the roots get established.

Finally, the SIP clones are almost a week in and I've filled the reservoirs a couple of times to keep them from drying out.